Member Contributer Rush2112 Posted January 29, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted January 29, 2015 oil analysis, dropped a full grade by 1100 miles, Don't fear the shear... because the difference in viscosity between the grades is only 3 cSt and thats not 3 cSt thinner or thicker... the measurement is 3 cSt in more flow... 3 cSt in more flow doesn't risk increase wear... our modern engines protected by modern oils don't operate with in a narrow 3 cSt range of risk... Blackstone graded your oil by cSt testor... that means a quantity of oil was heated to a standard temp and the rate of flow was recorded by a stop watch... this flow-rate is governed by resistance of the oil flowing under gravity through the capillary tube, this test actually measures an oil’s kinematic viscosity. The viscosity is typically reported in centistokes (cSt), and is calculated from the time it takes oil to flow from the starting point to the stopping point using a calibration constant supplied for each tube... so a drop of one grade which is only a 3 cSt difference in flow is nothing to fear... Got an answer for everything, don't you BLS... always educational. Thanks... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Skids Posted January 29, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted January 29, 2015 Managed 130k on my 5th Gen with regular 8k changes using Castrol. Engine still running very strong the last time I rode her. Anecdotal I know but it worked for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spud786 Posted January 29, 2015 Share Posted January 29, 2015 oil analysis, dropped a full grade by 1100 miles, Don't fear the shear... because the difference in viscosity between the grades is only 3 cSt and thats not 3 cSt thinner or thicker... the measurement is 3 cSt in more flow... 3 cSt in more flow doesn't risk increase wear... our modern engines protected by modern oils don't operate with in a narrow 3 cSt range of risk... Blackstone graded your oil by cSt testor... that means a quantity of oil was heated to a standard temp and the rate of flow was recorded by a stop watch... this flow-rate is governed by resistance of the oil flowing under gravity through the capillary tube, this test actually measures an oil’s kinematic viscosity. The viscosity is typically reported in centistokes (cSt), and is calculated from the time it takes oil to flow from the starting point to the stopping point using a calibration constant supplied for each tube... so a drop of one grade which is only a 3 cSt difference in flow is nothing to fear... Got an answer for everything, don't you BLS... always educational. Thanks... A lot of theory atleast Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer BusyLittleShop Posted January 29, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted January 29, 2015 A lot of theory atleast Not theory... fact... I choose 0W30 because it gives the right flow at the normal operating temperature of 212ºF of the engine and that would be the viscosity of 10 at operating temps... so that means for every 1000 rpms increase Mr.RC45's oil pressure increases another 10 psi... a 30w flows more oil at higher rpms which flows more oil between the critical bearings which carries away more heat and I'm not wasting HP just pumping oil through the blow off valve... 0w30 psi 1000 10 2000 20 3000 30 4000 40 5000 50 6000 60 7000 70 8000 80 9000 90 10000 99 11000 99 blow off by the pressure relief valve 0w40 1000 12 2000 24 3000 36 4000 48 5000 72 6000 84 7000 96 8000 99 blow off by the pressure relief valve 9000 99 10000 99 11000 99 15W50 psi 1000 15 2000 30 3000 45 4000 60 5000 75 6000 90 7000 99 blow off by the pressure relief valve 8000 99 9000 99 10000 99 11000 99 Mr.RC45 Oil Press Gauge shows the problem with oil... it doesn't want to flow when its cold this is 0w30 at 112º resisting at 18 psi The same 0w30 at 203F Oil flowing 10 psi perfect You see I just don't talk... I went to trouble to installed a digital oil pressure gauge on MrRC45 to know... 0w30 at 8000 rpms 82 Psi close enough to perfect... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spud786 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 End result , you believe lower oil pressure and more oil flow is better, and it probably is for fuel mileage, For real wear protection , I prefer thicker film strength and good oil pressure. How many miles on your 0w30 car oil, any uoa more than 700 miles, like a UOA with 2000 miles that's been Hammer headed and not used for church social events? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer BusyLittleShop Posted January 30, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted January 30, 2015 End result , you believe lower oil pressure and more oil flow is better, and it probably is for fuel mileage, For real wear protection , I prefer thicker film strength and good oil pressure. How many miles on your 0w30 car oil, any uoa more than 700 miles, like a UOA with 2000 miles that's been Hammer headed and not used for church social events? How are you judging thicker film strength??? Mr.RC45 has over 59,000 miles and those are miles not in moderation either... since 98 I've been running mostly Mobil 1 10W30 Energy Conserving oil 365 days a year... 0w30 is new and improved 30 weight... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spud786 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 How are you judging thicker film strength??? I can pretty much guarantee, my 2 quarts of 10w40 and 1 quart 20w50(for longevity) is running thicker than your 0w30, Through out the motor including the transmission I just wanted to see a UOA of a Hard ridden bike with significant mileage more than 2000 mile on the oci, with the 0w30 car oil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer BusyLittleShop Posted January 30, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted January 30, 2015 How are you judging thicker film strength??? I can pretty much guarantee, my 2 quarts of 10w40 and 1 quart 20w50(for longevity) is running thicker than your 0w30, Through out the motor including the transmission I just wanted to see a UOA of a Hard ridden bike with significant mileage more than 2000 mile on the oci, with the 0w30 car oil. The only thing a grade guarantees is flow measured in centistrokes cSt its not a measurement of thickness... you're not alone thinking in terms of thickness but its not how oils are graded... It is time to introduce the concept of lubrication. Most believe that pressure = lubrication. This is false. Flow = lubrication. If pressure was the thing that somehow lubricated your engine then we would all be using 90 weight oil. Lubrication is used to separate moving parts, to keep them from touching. There is a one to one relationship between flow and separation. If you double the flow you will double the separation pressure in a bearing. The pressure at the bearing entrance is irrelevant. In fact the relationship between pressure and flow is in opposition. If you change your oil to a thicker formula the pressure will go up. It goes up because the resistance to flow is greater and in fact the flow must go down in order for the pressure to go up. They are inversely related. Conversely if you choose a thinner oil then the pressure will go down. This can only occur if the flow has increased. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spud786 Posted January 30, 2015 Share Posted January 30, 2015 I still need to see that uoa. 2000 miles is not much if its a really good weight to run in a hard ridden vfr. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aimbot9000 Posted January 31, 2015 Share Posted January 31, 2015 Blackstone reports at 10 paces! BLS did you use the honda tool that mounts to the oil filter to get the pressure or did you tap in elsewhere? Also where did you get the display? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer FJ12Ryder Posted January 31, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted January 31, 2015 How are you judging thicker film strength??? I can pretty much guarantee, my 2 quarts of 10w40 and 1 quart 20w50(for longevity) is running thicker than your 0w30, Through out the motor including the transmission I just wanted to see a UOA of a Hard ridden bike with significant mileage more than 2000 mile on the oci, with the 0w30 car oil. The only thing a grade guarantees is flow measured in centistrokes cSt its not a measurement of thickness... you're not alone thinking in terms of thickness but its not how oils are graded... It is time to introduce the concept of lubrication. Most believe that pressure = lubrication. This is false. Flow = lubrication. If pressure was the thing that somehow lubricated your engine then we would all be using 90 weight oil. Lubrication is used to separate moving parts, to keep them from touching. There is a one to one relationship between flow and separation. If you double the flow you will double the separation pressure in a bearing. The pressure at the bearing entrance is irrelevant. In fact the relationship between pressure and flow is in opposition. If you change your oil to a thicker formula the pressure will go up. It goes up because the resistance to flow is greater and in fact the flow must go down in order for the pressure to go up. They are inversely related. Conversely if you choose a thinner oil then the pressure will go down. This can only occur if the flow has increased. I'm not sure I totally buy into this flow/pressure explanation. I know that on some pressurized oil fed engines with plain bearings that develop excessive bearing clearance, will then show lower oil pressure and shortly after that have problems with spun bearings. The oil pump is pumping the same volume of oil, but one or more of the bearings will fail. I've always been told that it is because the oil pump volume is the same but the pressure has decreased and allowed the oil film separating the plain bearings from the crank to fail and that leads to metal-to-metal contact and subsequent failure. That's what I've always been told. I have owned bikes with roller bearing cranks and realize that they run very, very low oil pressure but a very high volume due to point contact of the roller balls which benefit in no way to oil pressure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer BusyLittleShop Posted January 31, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted January 31, 2015 Blackstone reports at 10 paces! BLS did you use the honda tool that mounts to the oil filter to get the pressure or did you tap in elsewhere? Also where did you get the display? I started my own thread that out lines the mod... http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/topic/80193-mr-rc45-digital-oil-pressure-gauge-mod/?p=984074 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rush2112 Posted January 31, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted January 31, 2015 How are you judging thicker film strength??? I can pretty much guarantee, my 2 quarts of 10w40 and 1 quart 20w50(for longevity) is running thicker than your 0w30, Through out the motor including the transmission I just wanted to see a UOA of a Hard ridden bike with significant mileage more than 2000 mile on the oci, with the 0w30 car oil. The only thing a grade guarantees is flow measured in centistrokes cSt its not a measurement of thickness... you're not alone thinking in terms of thickness but its not how oils are graded... It is time to introduce the concept of lubrication. Most believe that pressure = lubrication. This is false. Flow = lubrication. If pressure was the thing that somehow lubricated your engine then we would all be using 90 weight oil. Lubrication is used to separate moving parts, to keep them from touching. There is a one to one relationship between flow and separation. If you double the flow you will double the separation pressure in a bearing. The pressure at the bearing entrance is irrelevant. In fact the relationship between pressure and flow is in opposition. If you change your oil to a thicker formula the pressure will go up. It goes up because the resistance to flow is greater and in fact the flow must go down in order for the pressure to go up. They are inversely related. Conversely if you choose a thinner oil then the pressure will go down. This can only occur if the flow has increased. I'm not sure I totally buy into this flow/pressure explanation. I know that on some pressurized oil fed engines with plain bearings that develop excessive bearing clearance, will then show lower oil pressure and shortly after that have problems with spun bearings. The oil pump is pumping the same volume of oil, but one or more of the bearings will fail. I've always been told that it is because the oil pump volume is the same but the pressure has decreased and allowed the oil film separating the plain bearings from the crank to fail and that leads to metal-to-metal contact and subsequent failure. That's what I've always been told. I have owned bikes with roller bearing cranks and realize that they run very, very low oil pressure but a very high volume due to point contact of the roller balls which benefit in no way to oil pressure. I think in both cases the measured pressure has dropped because resistance to flow has decreased... this does not prove or require that flow has increased. At a given pump speed the flow should be relatively defined... shouldn't it? Resistance to flow would cause an increase in measured pressure to maintain the flow rate (e.g. increased viscosity); conversely, a decrease in resistance to flow (e.g. excessive bearing clearance) would result in a decrease in pressure with the same flow rate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.