Member Contributer BCmcrider Posted June 16, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted June 16, 2014 Well, Sunday morning, fathers day and I thought I'd take a little time to myself to change the plugs and clean the air filter on my baby (2000 VFR with 107,000kms.) The depression situation came to light when I went to remove the front right spark plug as it was not tight and felt odd/loose on the way out. I cleaned and gapped the plugs during which time I noticed some carbon around the threads on the loose plug, however, no apparent damage to the threads etc. Upon re-inserting that plug, I discovered that it simply spun freely in the head with no sign of achieving any torque, so much so that I couldn't even get it to back out so that I could remove it. After grabbing the tip with a magnet, I managed to eventually wiggle the plug out through the remaining non-existent threads. My question is, has anyone fixed this with a heli-coil? Is it advisable to use a time-sert instead of a heli-coil? Can it be done safely on the bike? If done on the bike, I've seen suggestions to A) Put the piston half way back down after the compression stroke then just vacuum or blow the swarf out. As shown here. OR B) Place the piston on the intake cycle and blow air in the intake while cutting the threads. OR C) Put grease on the cutter and hope none of the grease laden swarf falls into the combustion chamber. What a pain. I have changed literally hundreds of spark plugs and never had this issue before. I can only assume that I didn't tighten the plug enough at last insertion. Can someone who has done this successfully tell me what the acceptable method is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer rdguy Posted June 16, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted June 16, 2014 My question is, has anyone fixed this with a heli-coil? Is it advisable to use a time-sert instead of a heli-coil? Can it be done safely on the bike? If done on the bike, I've seen suggestions to A) Put the piston half way back down after the compression stroke then just vacuum or blow the swarf out. As shown here. OR B) Place the piston on the intake cycle and blow air in the intake while cutting the threads. OR C) Put grease on the cutter and hope none of the grease laden swarf falls into the combustion chamber. Can someone who has done this successfully tell me what the acceptable method is. Ages ago I did a bike using a helicoil and both B) and C). Seemed to work. I have no experience with time serts. Glenn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted June 16, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted June 16, 2014 Honda heads are tuff so if you install them right should hold. These also look alot beefer . http://www.locknstitch.com/sparkpluginserts.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Dutchy Posted June 16, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted June 16, 2014 PM douglasthecook he has been there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer BCmcrider Posted June 16, 2014 Author Member Contributer Share Posted June 16, 2014 Honda heads are tuff so if you install them right should hold. These also look alot beefer . http://www.locknstitch.com/sparkpluginserts.htm Thanks for posting. I had a look at these and it looks like they know what they are talking about ie their discussion on heat transfer rates and the problem of using a steel heli-coil, but it seems they only go down to 12mm. Do you know someone that has used this brand of insert on a vfr with 10mm plugs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted June 16, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted June 16, 2014 Honda heads are tuff so if you install them right should hold. These also look alot beefer . http://www.locknstitch.com/sparkpluginserts.htm Thanks for posting. I had a look at these and it looks like they know what they are talking about ie their discussion on heat transfer rates and the problem of using a steel heli-coil, but it seems they only go down to 12mm. Do you know someone that has used this brand of insert on a vfr with 10mm plugs? Did not notice that . I wonder if that's inter diameter or outer ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer BCmcrider Posted June 16, 2014 Author Member Contributer Share Posted June 16, 2014 Honda heads are tuff so if you install them right should hold. These also look alot beefer . http://www.locknstitch.com/sparkpluginserts.htm Thanks for posting. I had a look at these and it looks like they know what they are talking about ie their discussion on heat transfer rates and the problem of using a steel heli-coil, but it seems they only go down to 12mm. Do you know someone that has used this brand of insert on a vfr with 10mm plugs? Did not notice that . I wonder if that's inter diameter or outer ? The 10mm measurement is the major diameter of the threads according to http://www.sparkplugs.co.uk/pages/technical/glossary.htm It looks like we've got special plugs in our Honda's that have a non-threaded portion of the reach, thus requiring a special time-sert kit that is almost exactly twice the cost $240 of the regular $128 time-sert kits. If anyone has done this on the bike on a 5th gen, I'd love to hear from them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted June 16, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted June 16, 2014 Wow !!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer gll429 Posted June 16, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted June 16, 2014 do not use helicoil!!!! EVER !! they SUCK!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer gll429 Posted June 16, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted June 16, 2014 the 1st thing i have done.. FIXED a RETARDS helicoil attempt!! since the threads are now TWICE fraked up.. i had to tap the threads out to 12mm thats right!! the 10mm hole is now a 12 mm hole!! and then i had to shave the sides of the spark plugs "nut" to fit the sucker in the shaft with the tool. it worked and the bike is still driven every day by the owner. what i have also done before.. installed a timesert. piston at the bottom of the compression stroke. greased the drill bit.... little, if any shaving fell in the cylinder greased the tap...... ditto.. looked inside with a bore scope. saw nothing that looked like shavings. installed plug. went for a test ride. customer still has it.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veefer800Canuck Posted June 17, 2014 Share Posted June 17, 2014 I did the greased drill bit/greased tap thing on a Toyota pickup one time. My father in law drove that sucker for years afterwards. Make sure the piston is at BDC so there is room for the bits to go into the cylinder without hitting the piston. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer zupatun Posted June 18, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted June 18, 2014 I did the greased drill bit/greased tap thing on a Toyota pickup one time. My father in law drove that sucker for years afterwards. Make sure the piston is at BDC so there is room for the bits to go into the cylinder without hitting the piston. I have had this done on my old 4th Gen...the Previous owner had stripped the threads...one day the bike was only working on 3 cylinders...the plug popped out and was held in by the connector. Guy installed it for me had done it before, used lots of grease, made sure none worked its way into the cylinder...worked like a charm. Still working IIRC Travis Sawyer was racing the bike last time I looked...sold it to him after some guy hit me in NH in 2005 ish time frame... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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