Member Contributer yycviffer Posted December 26, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted December 26, 2013 Well Merry Christmas all!A couple days ago I was asked for some pics of the 6 gen rear sets on my 5 Gen in another thread. Well my present to you guys is the pics. You will have to excuse the state of the rest of the bike. It is the garage for winter maintenance. It wasn't that big of a deal. Took me longer to source all the required parts and go through the parts book then it did to actually do the mod. Why did I do it? I like the look of the 6 gen rear sets considerably more and I wanted to have the option of going to aftermarket rear sets. Kinda want to go to a moto gp shift pattern. Enjoy Before After To the moderators: If you want to move this to the Mods forum feel free. Its only applicable 5 gens so I stuck it there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer CornerCarver Posted December 26, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted December 26, 2013 Very nice. Is that a 5G or 6G swingarm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer yycviffer Posted December 26, 2013 Author Member Contributer Share Posted December 26, 2013 Thanks, Its a 5th gen swing arm but I believe with this set up a 6 gen swing arm should be able to be installed. In some areas the 6 gen is not that different from a 5 gen and Honda has been good enough that a lot of parts are interchangable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer paladinreed Posted December 26, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted December 26, 2013 Is the swap detailed in another thread with parts list etc? Another ingenious, VFRD retrofit. Awesome work it really looks clean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer CornerCarver Posted December 26, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted December 26, 2013 Thanks, Its a 5th gen swing arm but I believe with this set up a 6 gen swing arm should be able to be installed. In some areas the 6 gen is not that different from a 5 gen and Honda has been good enough that a lot of parts are interchangable. Yeah, I kind of understand the interchangeability of VFR parts but I am specifically wondering what you did to accommodate the fact that the 6G swingarm is wider than the 5G at the mounting points where it attaches to the cushion? Can you take a close up pic of the left side mount and the space between the mount and swingarm? Or better, can you specify what spacers you fabricated to eliminate this gap? If you are not sure what I am talking about I can post a pic of a 5G engine with a 6G cushion and 5G swingarm to show you the gaps that allow the swingarm to move under cornering forces and do not allow the through bolt to be properly torqued. BTW, the 6G swingarm definitely works with this set up (we have installed and torqued it to spec) but we would prefer to run the shorter 5G swingarm as we are running 5G gearing with +2 in the rear and don't want to purchase a 114 link chain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer yycviffer Posted December 26, 2013 Author Member Contributer Share Posted December 26, 2013 I believe I know exactly what you are asking corner. As you are aware the swing arm is located to the engine via the R/H mount. The L/H mount is just a bush that the swing arm is allowed to "float" on. As such I purchased the L/H spacer(bushing) for the 6 gen gen and put it in the left swing arm pivot. That then located the bolt head in correct relation to everything. That led to a small hick up on the right. I could not even start the nut onto the pivot bolt. All the spacers, bushings, bearings and c-clips are still 5 gen on the right. as such, the swing arm is located in the "chassis" in the same place. Back to the nut issue. I grabbed my niffty caliper and took some measurements of the nut, pivot bolt and cushion. I took the nut to work, lathed off about a quarter inch from the face of it and the nut is now fully threaded onto the pivot bolt with 1 thread showing through the nut and torqued to spec. (I had a more precise measurement than "about a quarter inch" but I don't remeber off the top of my head what it was.) There is a small gap between the O/B face of the left side of the swing arm and the cushion due the dimensional issue previously mentioned, but the system is designed so the pivot bolt pinches the spacer to the crankcase and not the swing arm so wehther the clearance is 10 thou or a couple hundred thou should be irrelevant.Hope that is what you where after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted December 26, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted December 26, 2013 A pic would be nice. Wow 1/4 of inch .. First thought this was a 6th gen seat post . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer yycviffer Posted December 26, 2013 Author Member Contributer Share Posted December 26, 2013 It does sound like a lot but if one has looked at the nut for the pivot bolt, the threads in the nut don't start until about 3/8" from the mating surface of the nut. So the part I toook off has no affect on the amount of engagement and security of the nut. Sorry, this is the "detailed" version. To be honest it is mostly just 6 Gen parts bin stuff procurred via flee-bay. I wasn't sure of the interest level so I didn't really take any in process pics. Thanks for the compliemnt on the clean look. My goal with any mod is to make it look and function as close to factory as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted December 26, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted December 26, 2013 It does sound like a lot but if one has looked at the nut for the pivot bolt, the threads in the nut don't start until about 3/8" from the mating surface of the nut. So the part I toook off has no affect on the amount of engagement and security of the nut. Sorry, this is the "detailed" version. To be honest it is mostly just 6 Gen parts bin stuff procurred via flee-bay. I wasn't sure of the interest level so I didn't really take any in process pics. Thanks for the compliemnt on the clean look. My goal with any mod is to make it look and function as close to factory as possible. Ah got it ... This pic shows the cut down nut ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer mello dude Posted December 26, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted December 26, 2013 Hey yyc - Curious as to the ergos. By the calibrated eyeball, it looks very close. Did you notice any change in that area? thxz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer yycviffer Posted December 26, 2013 Author Member Contributer Share Posted December 26, 2013 It does sound like a lot but if one has looked at the nut for the pivot bolt, the threads in the nut don't start until about 3/8" from the mating surface of the nut. So the part I toook off has no affect on the amount of engagement and security of the nut. Sorry, this is the "detailed" version. To be honest it is mostly just 6 Gen parts bin stuff procurred via flee-bay. I wasn't sure of the interest level so I didn't really take any in process pics. Thanks for the compliemnt on the clean look. My goal with any mod is to make it look and function as close to factory as possible. Ah got it ... This pic shows the cut down nut ? Yes it does. Both the bolt head and the nut are recessed from the face of the cushion by the same amount. There is a chamfer machined into the cushion that is hard to see and the face of both the bolt head and nut are where that chamfer ends. I used the bolt head recessed dimension as the reference for the nut side due to the fact that it was all stock 6 gen parts and made the right side to match. As for the ergos, to be honest I haven't ridden it yet (winter and all) but from the untrained eye, they are damn near identical. I did hold both sets of parts in position during the mod and could not tell much of a difference in peg position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted December 27, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted December 27, 2013 Re-spray your heat shield, looks good . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WERA910 Posted December 28, 2013 Share Posted December 28, 2013 Are 6th gen brake m/c and lever required too? Thanks its a mod ive wanted to try for a while Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer mello dude Posted December 28, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted December 28, 2013 Are 6th gen brake m/c and lever required too? Thanks its a mod ive wanted to try for a while Cant comment about the brake lever, but most all Honda rear m/c mounting is the same, and the 5th m/c should bolt on easy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer yycviffer Posted December 29, 2013 Author Member Contributer Share Posted December 29, 2013 The brake lever from a 6 gen has to be used. As for the M/C, the actuating rod coming out of it where the clevis for the brake lever attaches is about an inch longer than on a 5 gen M/C. You might be able to buy the individual part and use most of a 5 gen M/C. The bore is the same. The M/C came with the used rear set I got off fle-bay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer KevCarver Posted January 9, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted January 9, 2014 I believe I know exactly what you are asking corner. As you are aware the swing arm is located to the engine via the R/H mount. The L/H mount is just a bush that the swing arm is allowed to "float" on. As such I purchased the L/H spacer(bushing) for the 6 gen gen and put it in the left swing arm pivot. That then located the bolt head in correct relation to everything. That led to a small hick up on the right. I could not even start the nut onto the pivot bolt. All the spacers, bushings, bearings and c-clips are still 5 gen on the right. as such, the swing arm is located in the "chassis" in the same place. Back to the nut issue. I grabbed my niffty caliper and took some measurements of the nut, pivot bolt and cushion. I took the nut to work, lathed off about a quarter inch from the face of it and the nut is now fully threaded onto the pivot bolt with 1 thread showing through the nut and torqued to spec. (I had a more precise measurement than "about a quarter inch" but I don't remeber off the top of my head what it was.) There is a small gap between the O/B face of the left side of the swing arm and the cushion due the dimensional issue previously mentioned, but the system is designed so the pivot bolt pinches the spacer to the crankcase and not the swing arm so whether the clearance is 10 thou or a couple hundred thou should be irrelevant. Hope that is what you where after. Is that spacer #9 on the parts fiche? http://www.ronayers.com/SWINGARM-C500913.aspx As for the right side, I believe the 6g is designed to hang on that nut. It doesn't have a spacer, but that that nut takes the place of the spacer. That seem right? That's how it looked when I was checking out 'Carvers' set up. So you essentially cut off that spacer length and kept the right side spacers from the 5th gen. Right? In any case, it sounds to me that I only need the spacer #9. And pivot bolt and nut, which needs to be shortened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer yycviffer Posted January 13, 2014 Author Member Contributer Share Posted January 13, 2014 The right side is 100% 5 gen as far as swing arm parts are concerned. That side has a couple ball bearings and IIRC the are a couple small spacers inboard and outboard. (the parts list calls them pivot collars) I left all that stuff as is. You should be good with collar #9, pivot bolt and modified nut. I had some pics of the nut and left spacer on my phone I was going to upload but, my phone came off my belt and run over in the Mac's parking lot. The phone still worked but the card was cracked and thus pics were lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer KevCarver Posted January 13, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted January 13, 2014 Thanks for the confirmation! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rush2112 Posted January 13, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted January 13, 2014 Mod looks great... Thanks for the info! This will come in handy :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer KevCarver Posted February 2, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted February 2, 2014 The Carvers did some part swapping experiments today and the easiest way to swap was to use the left side bushing from the 6G in the 5G swingarm (already discussed) and then to remove the outer bushing on the right side. The nut on the 6G swingarm bolt is actually taking the place of this bushing. Things got a bit confused after that... We weren't in my garage, but I'm thinking that the 5G swingarm, shock, and linkages all should work as they did with the stock 5G cushion. MiniCarver is going in a different direction with his, so we were trying other combo's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WERA910 Posted June 14, 2014 Share Posted June 14, 2014 in the middle of this conversion. Got all the parts together and started the tear down. Can't seem to get the cushion out without the exhaust being removed. My bike is a 2001 and still has the stock header. I have been thinking of upgrading to a '98 header or a Delkavic full system, but didn't want to do it now. Can you confirm: a) the exhaust needs to come off for this mod. and b) the 2000/2001 header will work with the 6th gen cushion if I just re-use my stock stuff? Thanks, Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WERA910 Posted June 15, 2014 Share Posted June 15, 2014 How did I miss that the exhaust wasn't there in these pics!? After DSCF1311.JPG DSCF1312.JPG Now, to put on a full Delkavic system or not??? This conversion is getting expensive! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer paladinreed Posted June 16, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted June 16, 2014 I did my conversion for about 120 bucks. But I have the 98 header and it clears just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WERA910 Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 I've been trying to document my conversion to help others. Here goes my lame attempt: situation before, bent left and right footpegs: tear down: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WERA910 Posted June 20, 2014 Share Posted June 20, 2014 The clean up: The mock up: The repair: Had a broken centerstand bolt. The right side bolt for the center stand is left hand thread, on the fifth gen it's right hand thread. So: heat took care of the loc-tite, and retapped the hole with right hand thread for the re-assembly: The modification: As mentioned, right hand side of the nut needs to be trimmed. 14.8mm removed is what I found worked: Reassembly: Done, but snag. The hard brake line that supplies the front calipers from the rear caliper kinked and broke after reassembly. I'm waiting for a metric flare kit now to try to reflare the old line and restore the system. Parts collection: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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