Member Contributer kebrider Posted June 18, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted June 18, 2013 I ran the new PP3s at this years TMAC. I had 150 miles on the front tire and 0 miles on the rear when I headed to Franklin on Wednesday morning and I covered 1,309 miles, arriving home Sunday with the front tire looking decent and the rear tire to the leading edge of the side tread wear bars. Switchblade also ran the P3s at TMAC and his results were similar. One thing we have learned is the tire has as much wear left after touching the wear bars as getting to them. I did not ride my usual style during a lot of TMAC as I usually lead rides while this year I spent as much time in the pack. As a result I spent more time accelerating out of turns and less time diving in with minimal front brake and using the front tire to slow me down which may have been partially responsible for the rear showing signs of wear sooner. When I led rides I carried a slightly slower-than-normal pace most of the time. All-in-all not the perfect test to gauge front tire wear but I stressed the front enough over 1,996 miles in 3 weeks enough to know it is a very durable and very grippy front tire. It still shows plenty of tread over the side wear bars and the center tread is looking good as well. The rear went a total of 1,836 miles before I changed it and I probably could have stretched it out more in spite of the wear bars about flat on the sides. I believe there is something to Michelin's process of laying the soft compound over the hard compound on this tire as the rear seems to get to a point of visible wear and stay there. Switchblade is well over 2K and his rear tire wear has slowed though I did run a slightly slower pace this weekend so as not to put too much stress on his worn skins. My only gripe with the PP3s is they have a slightly heavier steering feel than the S20s or the Q2s and they start steering strangely after 1,200 miles or so. Over time my PP3s required increased effort at turn-in and then would fall in for the next bit of lean angle and then go back to needing increased effort to get to (my) max lean angle. Like having three tires in one (not cool). The steering/leaning observations I make are subtle and for most people probably not that big a deal but I spend so much time hurtling though the mountains on a 550+ lb sport-tourer I have become ultra-sensative to tire performance and feedback. I just hate having to make small corrections as I corner. One reason these tires may have worn strangely is my riding was inconsistent but it is a chicken and egg thing as to why...did the tire cause my inconsistency or did my inconsistency cause the tire wear? I installed a new set of S20s and have 600 miles on them for a direct comparison. In the same mileage period the Michelins never turned as easily but the PP3s may have slightly more outright grip but only very slightly. The S20s are like magic on my VFR as anyone who has followed me will attest. I easily carry an additional 5 mph corner speed just because I love how direct and smooth and grippy the S20s are. On the street I prefer the S20s but if I had to do a track day I suspect the PP3s would outperform them. At street velocities I just love how perfectly neutral and communicative the S20s are and do not really care for the more remote feel of the PP3s. One major observation is the VFR began to pogo in fast corners during TMAC and got worse on my sporting ride home and over the next couple of weeks. Zero pogo with the S20s. I suspect the profile of the rear tire was the direct cause of the wallowing but I would need to do more research. For the record I always run 36F/42R and maybe the PP3s needed less. I never took a hot pressure reading to see if either tire needed an adjustment. My tire testing is incredibly subjective but the one thing I can usually help with is grip and durability and my take is the PP3 is one of the best, if not the best, street/light track tires you can buy on both fronts. My front will go on the Versys in a few weeks, it has that much life left in it, and the feel of the sidewalls is still sponge-like and supple (probably the reason the tire feels so remote). I want to see if the front tire was causing the weird steering and the V will let me know. I will try the Q3s next and probably go back to the PP3s for a late summer re-test because I believe this test was slightly flawed. My take is the PP3 is a very high quality tire that has a very advanced rubber compound. As long as Michelin can maintain solid quality control (one reason I like newer model Bridgestone tires btw) this tire will impress a lot of people. KEB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted June 18, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted June 18, 2013 Great write up and spot on. I'll take some pic's of mine tonight and post them, all in all a great tire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted June 18, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted June 18, 2013 Let's see total mileage to date is 2155 +340=2495 .. Order the BR favorite Mich. setup PP front and PR2 rear ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer whitelightning Posted June 19, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted June 19, 2013 Great write-up Keb, interesting observation on the 3 turn in zones as you get into lean angle. My question is.....does it offer a significant level of performance (Off Track) over the standard PP (F/R), or for that matter PR2 (F/R), to justify paying the extra $$$? I ran a set of PP's at TMAC '12, and while they allowed me to go a bit harder in the corners....the grip advantage over a set of PR2's was only observed in the "shouldn't have done that on the street" range (and I won't even talk about the mileage). I'd be interested to see a direct comparison between a set of PP3 and PR3 back to back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer kebrider Posted June 20, 2013 Author Member Contributer Share Posted June 20, 2013 I ran a set of PP's at TMAC '12, and while they allowed me to go a bit harder in the corners....the grip advantage over a set of PR2's was only observed in the "shouldn't have done that on the street" range (and I won't even talk about the mileage). Therein lies the problem. Sometimes i will ride for weeks with just normal light peg dragging and then i get this notion to turn it up. When conditions allow there are times I go track pace on the street. My track pace, but I push hard and my tires show the stress every time, along with my boots after being smashed into the ground. I love having the grippiest, best steering tires I can get just for those occasions. Riding a sport motorcycle hard is a unique, exhilarating experience. To do it with a sense of safety and confidence I test many types of tires and I explore their grip. I know for a fact on S20s or Q2s that I can slide both ends of a VFR through a high speed mountain corner and live to tell the tale, all the while having the time of my life. Can you put a price on that? KEB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer grond1234 Posted June 20, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted June 20, 2013 Was also running a set of PP3's at TMAC after tire change at Wheelers (didn't have my rear Rosso Corsa). Now am riding a different bike (Aprilia RSV4 Factory) but found these tires turned in faster then the Corsa's. Grip was fine and they are wearing well for having a litre bike spinning them. Don't really know my pace vs. Kebrider but I am not slow (edge to edge front and rear) . I am also running lower pressures - 32F/34R. Will say they are good tires but only have maybe 1000mile on them. See how they wear. Never ridden the S20's but have the Q2, Rosso Corsas and Super Corsas on the Ape and for what I can do on the street they are fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer 007 Posted June 20, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted June 20, 2013 Keb "takes it easy." Don't really know my pace vs. Kebrider .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer wagzhp Posted June 20, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted June 20, 2013 Excellent review. Thanks for taking the time to write it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer kebrider Posted June 20, 2013 Author Member Contributer Share Posted June 20, 2013 Keb "takes it easy." Amen brother Typical 1.6K mile rear...nice even wear: Same Mileage front...always plenty of center tread left...strange: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer luvtoleanit Posted June 20, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted June 20, 2013 I ran a set of PP's at TMAC '12, and while they allowed me to go a bit harder in the corners....the grip advantage over a set of PR2's was only observed in the "shouldn't have done that on the street" range (and I won't even talk about the mileage). Therein lies the problem. Sometimes i will ride for weeks with just normal light peg dragging and then i get this notion to turn it up. When conditions allow there are times I go track pace on the street. My track pace, but I push hard and my tires show the stress every time, along with my boots after being smashed into the ground. I love having the grippiest, best steering tires I can get just for those occasions. Riding a sport motorcycle hard is a unique, exhilarating experience. To do it with a sense of safety and confidence I test many types of tires and I explore their grip. I know for a fact on S20s or Q2s that I can slide both ends of a VFR through a high speed mountain corner and live to tell the tale, all the while having the time of my life. Can you put a price on that? KEB Been arguing with someone else on another board recently about this. He is the "take it to the track" mentality and that you shouldn't ever, ever, do this on the mountain turns yet he just totaled a bike at the track and claimed it on insurance. If you've got the skills to pay the bills go for it. IMO, it takes some talent and experience to fling these things around in the twisty bits and always bring her home shiny side up. Kudos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer kebrider Posted June 20, 2013 Author Member Contributer Share Posted June 20, 2013 I ran a set of PP's at TMAC '12, and while they allowed me to go a bit harder in the corners....the grip advantage over a set of PR2's was only observed in the "shouldn't have done that on the street" range (and I won't even talk about the mileage). Therein lies the problem. Sometimes i will ride for weeks with just normal light peg dragging and then i get this notion to turn it up. When conditions allow there are times I go track pace on the street. My track pace, but I push hard and my tires show the stress every time, along with my boots after being smashed into the ground. I love having the grippiest, best steering tires I can get just for those occasions. Riding a sport motorcycle hard is a unique, exhilarating experience. To do it with a sense of safety and confidence I test many types of tires and I explore their grip. I know for a fact on S20s or Q2s that I can slide both ends of a VFR through a high speed mountain corner and live to tell the tale, all the while having the time of my life. Can you put a price on that? KEB Been arguing with someone else on another board recently about this. He is the "take it to the track" mentality and that you shouldn't ever, ever, do this on the mountain turns yet he just totaled a bike at the track and claimed it on insurance. If you've got the skills to pay the bills go for it. IMO, it takes some talent and experience to fling these things around in the twisty bits and always bring her home shiny side up. Kudos. Can't really defend much of what I do on a bike. I don't care for the risk but I am hooked on the reward. Unlike the track I don't HAVE to go fast all the time...just when it feels right and poses the least amount of risk to me and those around me. So when I feel great and the tires, brakes, and chassis are working perfectly I may sling it through a few corners. Life is terminal so the real issue is the risk I may pose to others. That slows me down more than anything. So what I do on some deserted road on some distant mountain is pretty much my business. I give back to humanity by doing tire reviews that are 95% subjective except for the durability data which is very accurate because I ride very consistently. I certainly don't seek approval for my riding style. Each his own and the reality is I'm so slow I never even get the VFR/Tiger/Versys to so much as bobble. KEB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer whitelightning Posted June 20, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted June 20, 2013 I was just wondering about the payoff in direct comparison since I know you've ran PR2's as well. Next TMAC I was planning on running another set of PP, but of these are noticeably better than regular PP, then I might try them instead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer kebrider Posted June 20, 2013 Author Member Contributer Share Posted June 20, 2013 I was just wondering about the payoff in direct comparison since I know you've ran PR2's as well. Next TMAC I was planning on running another set of PP, but of these are noticeably better than regular PP, then I might try them instead. I have never owned a PR2 front but I have run the PP/PR2 combo twice on the VFR and once on the Versys. I liked this combo well enough, good when new but goes off before fully worn which harshes the buzz a little. PP3 front over the PP front by a mile...better in every way and worth every penny. PP3 front and PR2 rear might be the dream team but the PP3 rear wears pretty well. For you Matt I think you should try to find some Dunlop 205s. Then I can keep you in sight on the Skyway. :) KEB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer whitelightning Posted June 22, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted June 22, 2013 Lol, we're going for stacking the deck now huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baileyrock Posted June 22, 2013 Share Posted June 22, 2013 Can't really defend much of what I do on a bike. KEB Fricken !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted June 22, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted June 22, 2013 Can't really defend much of what I do on a bike. KEB Fricken !!! Dont sound good .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer luvtoleanit Posted June 23, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted June 23, 2013 Can't really defend much of what I do on a bike. I don't care for the risk but I am hooked on the reward. Unlike the track I don't HAVE to go fast all the time...just when it feels right and poses the least amount of risk to me and those around me. So when I feel great and the tires, brakes, and chassis are working perfectly I may sling it through a few corners. Life is terminal so the real issue is the risk I may pose to others. That slows me down more than anything. So what I do on some deserted road on some distant mountain is pretty much my business. I give back to humanity by doing tire reviews that are 95% subjective except for the durability data which is very accurate because I ride very consistently. I certainly don't seek approval for my riding style. Each his own and the reality is I'm so slow I never even get the VFR/Tiger/Versys to so much as bobble. KEB Ditto brother. I'm as safe as I can be on my twisties but I get after it where I can and make no apologies. Life is a risk, period. Until you've ridden with someone passing judgements is fools play in my book. Like I said, kudos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmythecop Posted June 23, 2013 Share Posted June 23, 2013 It is all what one considers acceptable risk. Sure I may fling myself off a mountain, but I may also take a round to the head at work. A very cool thing about VFRD is that there is no standard. Folks just like to support each other in the enjoyment of thier bikes, however that comes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer kebrider Posted June 23, 2013 Author Member Contributer Share Posted June 23, 2013 Lol, we're going for stacking the deck now huh? uh...yeah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baileyrock Posted June 24, 2013 Share Posted June 24, 2013 I for one never exceed the speed limit on any Public Road! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer kebrider Posted June 24, 2013 Author Member Contributer Share Posted June 24, 2013 I for one never exceed the speed limit on any Public Road! I noticed that about you but never caught up to mention it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer CornerCarver Posted June 24, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted June 24, 2013 I for one never exceed the speed limit on any Public Road! Who the hell is this I 4 1 guy....sounds like a .... whatever the opposite of is. Or a real or maybe the guy in the left lane just ahead of me every time I am late for a meeting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted June 24, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted June 24, 2013 You dont exceed it You triple it !!!!! It always a blast to run with ya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baileyrock Posted June 25, 2013 Share Posted June 25, 2013 I am SHOCKED at the level of acceptance of all this Hooligan behavior I am reading about here on VFRD! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer luvtoleanit Posted June 25, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted June 25, 2013 radar + H.A.R.D. = happy :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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