7Th Gen Tires?

[Yokel]

I have Michelin pr3's. ... they bum me out in high speed turns through the mountains.

Can you elaborate more on this? Are they unstable or unreliable in the twisties or ??? The only time I am a hesitant rider is in the rain (after some bad pucker moments) and am leaning towards the PR3's to get me over that but I don't want to take on any new concerns with grip/predictability in dry weather as a result.

RSD-

I spent Friday last week scrubbing in a set of PR3's and pushing them further than I have, ever, in the past.

They stick. I have noticed that they cup quite easily, and they smush around a wee bit when they're pushed hard, but they stick.

FWIW, there was gravel out, the road surface was dry but cold, I never once felt like the front was going to go, but I did feel it squirm.

For me, the PR3's are great. I'm a all-weather rider, and the poor weather handling offered is stellar, I'm willing to trade track performance for that any time. They'll still do more than I am capable of.

[interceptorrider]

I have Michelin pr3's. ... they bum me out in high speed turns through the mountains.

Can you elaborate more on this? Are they unstable or unreliable in the twisties or ??? The only time I am a hesitant rider is in the rain (after some bad pucker moments) and am leaning towards the PR3's to get me over that but I don't want to take on any new concerns with grip/predictability in dry weather as a result.

RSD-

I spent Friday last week scrubbing in a set of PR3's and pushing them further than I have, ever, in the past.

They stick. I have noticed that they cup quite easily, and they smush around a wee bit when they're pushed hard, but they stick.

FWIW, there was gravel out, the road surface was dry but cold, I never once felt like the front was going to go, but I did feel it squirm.

For me, the PR3's are great. I'm a all-weather rider, and the poor weather handling offered is stellar, I'm willing to trade track performance for that any time. They'll still do more than I am capable of.

Maybe that's the rub. This is a big, heavy bike. I have pushed my 5th & 6th gen harder. I have pushed my lighter bikes harder.......with no push at the front. When I push 600+ lbs (always ride with bags) plus me at 170+ w/gear......I can feel the front end get weak and start to slide. If I were on my Ducati or old CBR600rr or XB9S or SV650S or etc., I would say WTF?!?! However, I am on a big, heavy bike and all else is good (very good) up to that point of pushing a 600lb sporting bike.

It makes sense. I ride pretty hard for a street pace (pisses off my wife, but she if very wealthy if I biff it). I've been on motorcycles since age 5. I am 48. I've had many track days and race training. I EXPECT the front to push when I lean on her really hard. The tires are still good. She is just being a good girl and telling me I am getting close to all she's got. I like the Michelin's. If you all get a better reaction from other brands.......good on ya' then. I don't expect more from the tires on my big, heavy GT/ST. Perhaps I am a realist or foolin' myself. However, my opinion is not given without a certain depth of experience (and training/study). I don't have all the answers though and I'm sure most could ride around me. I'm just sayin'.......

[rubbersidedown]

I have Michelin pr3's. ... they bum me out in high speed turns through the mountains.

Can you elaborate more on this? Are they unstable or unreliable in the twisties or ??? The only time I am a hesitant rider is in the rain (after some bad pucker moments) and am leaning towards the PR3's to get me over that but I don't want to take on any new concerns with grip/predictability in dry weather as a result.

RSD-

I spent Friday last week scrubbing in a set of PR3's and pushing them further than I have, ever, in the past.

They stick. I have noticed that they cup quite easily, and they smush around a wee bit when they're pushed hard, but they stick.

FWIW, there was gravel out, the road surface was dry but cold, I never once felt like the front was going to go, but I did feel it squirm.

For me, the PR3's are great. I'm a all-weather rider, and the poor weather handling offered is stellar, I'm willing to trade track performance for that any time. They'll still do more than I am capable of.

Maybe that's the rub. This is a big, heavy bike. I have pushed my 5th & 6th gen harder. I have pushed my lighter bikes harder.......with no push at the front. When I push 600+ lbs (always ride with bags) plus me at 170+ w/gear......I can feel the front end get weak and start to slide. If I were on my Ducati or old CBR600rr or XB9S or SV650S or etc., I would say WTF?!?! However, I am on a big, heavy bike and all else is good (very good) up to that point of pushing a 600lb sporting bike.

It makes sense. I ride pretty hard for a street pace (pisses off my wife, but she if very wealthy if I biff it). I've been on motorcycles since age 5. I am 48. I've had many track days and race training. I EXPECT the front to push when I lean on her really hard. The tires are still good. She is just being a good girl and telling me I am getting close to all she's got. I like the Michelin's. If you all get a better reaction from other brands.......good on ya' then. I don't expect more from the tires on my big, heavy GT/ST. Perhaps I am a realist or foolin' myself. However, my opinion is not given without a certain depth of experience (and training/study). I don't have all the answers though and I'm sure most could ride around me. I'm just sayin'.......

Thanks, this is all very helpful. I think it is PR3's for me in a couple of weeks. Cheers.

[luvtoleanit]

I have Michelin pr3's. ... they bum me out in high speed turns through the mountains.

Can you elaborate more on this? Are they unstable or unreliable in the twisties or ??? The only time I am a hesitant rider is in the rain (after some bad pucker moments) and am leaning towards the PR3's to get me over that but I don't want to take on any new concerns with grip/predictability in dry weather as a result.

RSD-

I spent Friday last week scrubbing in a set of PR3's and pushing them further than I have, ever, in the past.

They stick. I have noticed that they cup quite easily, and they smush around a wee bit when they're pushed hard, but they stick.

FWIW, there was gravel out, the road surface was dry but cold, I never once felt like the front was going to go, but I did feel it squirm.

For me, the PR3's are great. I'm a all-weather rider, and the poor weather handling offered is stellar, I'm willing to trade track performance for that any time. They'll still do more than I am capable of.

Maybe that's the rub. This is a big, heavy bike. I have pushed my 5th & 6th gen harder. I have pushed my lighter bikes harder.......with no push at the front. When I push 600+ lbs (always ride with bags) plus me at 170+ w/gear......I can feel the front end get weak and start to slide. If I were on my Ducati or old CBR600rr or XB9S or SV650S or etc., I would say WTF?!?! However, I am on a big, heavy bike and all else is good (very good) up to that point of pushing a 600lb sporting bike.

It makes sense. I ride pretty hard for a street pace (pisses off my wife, but she if very wealthy if I biff it). I've been on motorcycles since age 5. I am 48. I've had many track days and race training. I EXPECT the front to push when I lean on her really hard. The tires are still good. She is just being a good girl and telling me I am getting close to all she's got. I like the Michelin's. If you all get a better reaction from other brands.......good on ya' then. I don't expect more from the tires on my big, heavy GT/ST. Perhaps I am a realist or foolin' myself. However, my opinion is not given without a certain depth of experience (and training/study). I don't have all the answers though and I'm sure most could ride around me. I'm just sayin'.......

The VFR12 needs fork work. I haven't owned a bike yet that didn't need something. Fork work and a new shock and she'll handle like hot butter.

[nasaorbit13]

Not to discourage you from the PRs. I am just giving you another data point.

I did a little comparison between the PR2s and 3s vs the Battlax021 and 023. The bike came with 021 and I got about 7K out of them with medium aggressiveness. I spoke with the Bridgestone rep and he recommended the 023GT spec for my bike (since the 7gen is about 600lbs). Sometimes I take my better half out for rides and tend to get a little aggressive. So far, I have 5K on them and they are great with more aggressive riding style. To me, Bridgestone cost significantly less and are doing phenomenal. I think I might get about 10K out of them.

Thank you for the data. Ever considered putting on a BT-016 on the front with the 23 rear? It's been a while since I've done the mix and match thing but it seemed to work great 10 years ago when I was doing it. With the stickier front (I ride aggressive as well, don't commute, and rarely slab) I found the f/r wore evenly together.

I've never tried that mixing and matching. I am new to the VFR world and my bike is only 18months old. However, thus far the BT23 GT is doing great and the wear is even with approx 40% of the mileage with a passenger + bags. I cannot complain except when the cops catch me on the twisties!

[Guest]

Hello ppl, sorry to dig up an old one but I'm having a hell of a time getting my 7th gen to stick. I remembered hearing the stock tires sucked so I've stuck it out not having nearly as much fun on the twisties as I enjoyed on the 6th gen. But bow I've got a fresh pair of pp2's on and after a few days riding I still end up w a slipping front end. Its happening at angles I'd not trust an old tire with at all but these are brand new PP2's! I absolutely HATE that feeling when nearing the edge of the road along very high drop off. Does this mean I need a lighter bike? I dearly love my 1200 but can't stand not being able to really cut the curves like I once did. How can I get a better grip here?

Like I can't carve on this w PP2's like I could on the 6th gen w moderately worn PR2's

Is it me?

[Beck]

Tires aside, unless you compensate with better suspension design, it will be hard to match the carving ability of lighter/smaller bikes in the twisties with heavier/bigger bikes....

Honda seemed to have spent quite a bit more on the 7th gen's suspension, compared to previous iterations of the VFR, so maybe good tires will get you pretty close or even match to what the smaller lighter bikes can do. Not sure if the 7th gen's wheelbase is not that much longer than previous VFRs, but if it is, it will also be quite a challenge to flick the longer bike around. bigger, heavier tires and wheels might also conspire to slow things down a bit....

[Volfy]

I have just a small chicken strip on the front tire and almost none on the rear. I have no problem trusting the Viffer to some pretty deep lean angles. You say the PP2s are brand new... have you scrubbed them in yet? The first thing I do after putting on fresh rubber is to do some imaginary slaloms on empty back roads and some tight turns in open parking lots to scrub in the tires.

Also, what tire pressures are you running?

[VfrNiko]

My stock tires were battlax 021. I ran 34 psi front, 36 psi rear, and they stuck very well.

Now just changed them with PR3, haven't had a chance to carve corners.

Hello ppl, sorry to dig up an old one but I'm having a hell of a time getting my 7th gen to stick. I remembered hearing the stock tires sucked so I've stuck it out not having nearly as much fun on the twisties as I enjoyed on the 6th gen. But bow I've got a fresh pair of pp2's on and after a few days riding I still end up w a slipping front end. Its happening at angles I'd not trust an old tire with at all but these are brand new PP2's! I absolutely HATE that feeling when nearing the edge of the road along very high drop off. Does this mean I need a lighter bike? I dearly love my 1200 but can't stand not being able to really cut the curves like I once did. How can I get a better grip here?

Like I can't carve on this w PP2's like I could on the 6th gen w moderately worn PR2's

Is it me?

[ron_al]

Also, what tire pressures are you running?

I'll second that. Let us know what pressure you are running. That will help others with a 7th gen to know if you're in the right ballpark or not.

Also, you indicate that these are new tires. What is the date of manufacture on the tires (the 4-digit code stamped into the sidewall of the tire)? (In other words, regardless of when you bought & installed the tires, how old are they?)

Ron

[luvtoleanit]

Hello ppl, sorry to dig up an old one but I'm having a hell of a time getting my 7th gen to stick. I remembered hearing the stock tires sucked so I've stuck it out not having nearly as much fun on the twisties as I enjoyed on the 6th gen. But bow I've got a fresh pair of pp2's on and after a few days riding I still end up w a slipping front end. Its happening at angles I'd not trust an old tire with at all but these are brand new PP2's! I absolutely HATE that feeling when nearing the edge of the road along very high drop off. Does this mean I need a lighter bike? I dearly love my 1200 but can't stand not being able to really cut the curves like I once did. How can I get a better grip here?

Like I can't carve on this w PP2's like I could on the 6th gen w moderately worn PR2's

Is it me?

No experience with those tires as I have stuck to Metzeler, Bridgestone, and most recently Pirellis in recent years.

Is your sag set on the bike?

[2thdr]

So I'm assuming you are trail braking into the corners and losing traction with the front end? From what I have read, the 1200 has much more powerful binders than the 6th gen...mayber you are exceeding your friction more with the brakes and not the lean angle?

High resolution photos with good lighting on the tires would be helpful as well...

[Guest]

So I'm assuming you are trail braking into the corners and losing traction with the front end? From what I have read, the 1200 has much more powerful binders than the 6th gen...mayber you are exceeding your friction more with the brakes and not the lean angle?

High resolution photos with good lighting on the tires would be helpful as well...

No, I'm not braking at all in the corners, this is on roads I know well and do my braking before hand, accelerating through the corners. Thats the craziest thing! I'd think my tail would be the one breaking loose, right? When I let off the gas, control is immediately restored.

Here are some pix.

[2thdr]

Can't see the photos at work, but I'll check them out at home ...

So, you are losing traction with the FRONT, after apex, while applying throttle on corner exit? That does sound strange...but it still sounds like you are exceeding tire/tarmac friction. Maybe you are on the verge of lifting the front? Move closer to the tank? I wonder if you are snapping open throttle? Maybe a more gradual roll on? Try hanging off some to reduce lean angle and see if that helps?

[NakedViffer]

In my opinion, those tires are not ready to get pushed hard yet, I like to break ALL the wax off before I really trust it to push hard, because you can have the tire sticking great and as soon as you get over on the waxy part at a good clip it gets a little sketchy and makes you reluctant to push hard again. You could always spray some brake clean on a rag and take the wax off, I've heard people have fairly good results with that.

[Guest]

Tire manufacturers stopped putting mold release a few years back! Start with tire pressures, suspension, then riding school.

The limiting factor on the VFR 1200 should be your footpegs! Even with stock bridgestone 21s!

[VfrNiko]

Tire manufacturers stopped putting mold release a few years back! Start with tire pressures, suspension, then riding school.

The limiting factor on the VFR 1200 should be your footpegs! Even with stock bridgestone 21s!

I second dubflush here.

If you're not trail braking, most people will slide the rear first before the front starts slipping.

[Tamworth]

Hello ppl, sorry to dig up an old one but I'm having a hell of a time getting my 7th gen to stick. I remembered hearing the stock tires sucked so I've stuck it out not having nearly as much fun on the twisties as I enjoyed on the 6th gen. But bow I've got a fresh pair of pp2's on and after a few days riding I still end up w a slipping front end. Its happening at angles I'd not trust an old tire with at all but these are brand new PP2's! I absolutely HATE that feeling when nearing the edge of the road along very high drop off. Does this mean I need a lighter bike? I dearly love my 1200 but can't stand not being able to really cut the curves like I once did. How can I get a better grip here?

Like I can't carve on this w PP2's like I could on the 6th gen w moderately worn PR2's

Is it me?

If this front tire is sliding then you've either got something slippery on the road or you're going too fast. It's really as simple as that

[2thdr]

Beg to differ, but jerky inputs by a slow rider can lose traction way before smooth inputs by a fast rider...

[Guest]

hahah, was that a double entendre? If not, I try to be smooth as possible but maybe I'm being a lil twitchy w the throttle. You gotta admit its hard not to be a lil jerky w this thing. Feels like the gas is just on or off for the first 20% of the power curve. That may be part of it.

I forgot to mention I'm running the standard tire pressures. Hmmm... Whatever it says on the swing arm. (amateur answer, I know) I also know that I'm a pretty heavy guy (240lbs) and I likely need new springs as a result, and thats likely the next thing I do to the thing. But it really doesn't feel like that's the issue as the tarmac is new n real smooth on most of the roads I push it on, and the slippage is incredibly smooth as opposed to being jumpy like when the springs are being over compressed, which does happen on accelleration. its like a more predictable version of what happens when i'm leaning in over that damn crosswalk/street paint.

I took it to a suspension guy who works tracks n is really popular for it here. He dialed it in n said my (stock) rear shock sucks if it isn't blown (???) but dude balanced it best he could. I feels pretty even. way more bouncy than the 800 but even feeling front to back anyway.

I'll try a lil less air, be smoother on the throttle n lean out more to see what happens. I probably could use a few track day classes, thats a really good idea too! I've been considering that for a while now but didnt think I was ready for it. Maybe thats flawed logic.

Thanks for all the great input everyone

[2thdr]

My comment was not directed at you...it was just that Tamworth made a blanket statement that I felt was wrong. It is likely that your bike is undersprung for your weight... during spirited riding you would feel the effects. Having never ridden a 1200 my comments are just projections so take them for what they are worth...

[Yokel]

Believe me when I say this, those tires will stick.

Check date of manufacture, pressures and suspension setup. May check your brakes as well as if your front is dragging a bit it will make the front want to step out on you. Might have some wonky spring or dampening issues too. I thought I felt the same thing at times, but in reality it was ONE finger on the brake upsetting things.

I've pushed my 1200 hard the last year on the street... harder than I thought I could anyway, and have never felt like it's going to just let go unless I've done something stupid. I've also witnessed this bike walking away from me on mine with two people on it and tires I would not ride on. (Not going to mention names, but YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE.)

If this bike will drag bags with me on it, or scrape off peg feelers two up, you shouldn't be feeling uneasy at the angles your tires are showing.

I don't know what your riding skill is, so obviously take advice with a grain of salt,

I'm 270lbs without gear, on a full-stock suspension. My associate that rides two-up like hell is chasing him is also on the stock suspenders. I wouldn't think your 240 would be a deal breaker.

It's true is difficult to be butter-smooth with this throttle system... it's twitchy as hell.

The bike will do it. It's another factor somewhere, and those tires are just fine. I run 36psi front and 40 rear, preload in back about 1/2 to 3/4 hard.

[Guest]

yeh, the more I reread these last few pages, the more I realize I've not done much to help the issue. I run higher pressures for longevity when its my commuter ride but I'll start riding a lil more squishy when going for kicks. I also think rigging in a map switch for the PCV would help. Then I can more easily swap to the smoother yet stronger aftermarket fuel map when going on typically spontaneous joy rides. Should help w any twitch factor. Can't believe I didn't even think of tire pressure! Feel kinda silly now. I guess talking it out really does help.

My skill level is what I'd consider on the slightly higher side of intermediate. 10 years riding the slab and somewhat often weekend twisties, w no formal training other than watching a popular sport riding self-improvement DVD.

I'll start saving up for some track riding lessons, it seems like that'd be the most effective effort at this point. I'm really glad it's just me n not that I'm over riding my sweet red beauty.

Thanks again for all the great suggestions!!!

[2thdr]

Re-read "Twist of the Wrist II" while you are searching for some track instruction...good stuff on being smooth. If you are running high pressures in the front (like >39psi), I bet lowering to 36 or less will be a big improvement.

[Volfy]

Track Days can be invaluable. I learned more in my first TD than in all the years of road riding prior.

Pumping up air pressure to get more life out your motorcycle tires is a really bad idea. You can probably do that with car/truck tires and get away with it. When you life could end if just 1 out of only 2 little contact patches give way, no amount of economy you gain could be worth the risk on a bike.