Member Contributer Yokel Posted February 15, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted February 15, 2013 First, I've had no issues whatsoever with my Gen7 electrics. However, we know that the last several batches of VFR's have had RR/Charging issues. That makes me wonder if it may not be wise to err on the side of caution and throw on a volt monitoring system, just to be on the safe side. When I did my 1st/2nd gear fix on my 2010, I was shocked at the number of wires in the harness. I would HATE to have to chase a short or melted wire down through that. Have any of you guys put a volt display on your 7th Gen to be on the safe side? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer EhViffer Posted February 15, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted February 15, 2013 Funny you should ask, Am looking at buying a Intellitronix M9015 right now for each bike. Only problem so far is that shipping ($42) is almost same cost as unit ($43). Looking for local supplier now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer CornerCarver Posted February 15, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted February 15, 2013 We just installed the green Intellitronix on my sons 3rd gen. I am not sure of it's waterproof-ness yet. If you are no hurry, order the part in April or early May and have it delivered to my address, we have at least two from Tarranah heading down for TxMac and you could pick the part up when they return. Or better you come down to TxMac and I can hand the part over right to you. Not sure but I thought the VFR1200 had an alternator like the ST1300 and did not need a r/r (and therefore had no issues electrically as compared to the stator/reg rec/charging woes of previous VFRs). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Yokel Posted February 15, 2013 Author Member Contributer Share Posted February 15, 2013 We just installed the green Intellitronix on my sons 3rd gen. I am not sure of it's waterproof-ness yet. If you are no hurry, order the part in April or early May and have it delivered to my address, we have at least two from Tarranah heading down for TxMac and you could pick the part up when they return. Or better you come down to TxMac and I can hand the part over right to you. Not sure but I thought the VFR1200 had an alternator like the ST1300 and did not need a r/r (and therefore had no issues electrically as compared to the stator/reg rec/charging woes of previous VFRs). Call it ignorance of my machine.. I don't even know if that is the case or not... Now I've gotta look. I'm seeing a rectifier... dunno about an alternator vs. a stator... any wisdom? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer EhViffer Posted February 15, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted February 15, 2013 Also following this with interest - do I actually need this gauge given Corner Carver's comment on the alternator. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Yokel Posted February 15, 2013 Author Member Contributer Share Posted February 15, 2013 My understanding (and I'm new to this) is that the regulator/rectifier is what basically consumes the additional energy that is NOT used by either lights/battery/farkles etc... Does an alternator treat this piece of gear more kindly than a stator? I'm electrically dumb when it comes to understanding the how's and why's of these systems... But I'm pretty good and tracking down problems and applying solder when needed. I'm just looking to be able to prevent an issue from coming up, if it's needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer CornerCarver Posted February 15, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted February 15, 2013 I would say whether you have an alternator or a stator and rotor I would still install the volt meter. I just want to know how the electrical system is doing before the tach flickers and the bike dies in an environment less conducive to repair/rescue. My limited understanding of the difference between the issues facing 6th gen and previous VFRs and a bike with an alternator is this: A stator and rotor create a magnetic field when rotating to charge a battery. the amount of voltage created by this field varies with the RPM. At low RPM you may only make 11.5 to 12.3 volts for example. At higher RPM the voltage can be as high as 14.5. The "job" of the regulator/ rectifier is to send the excess voltage that would damage you battery by overcharging it to ground. It does this by "shorting" itself internally (sending the voltage to ground) and shedding the excess voltage in teh form of heat (like the cooking element on top of an electric stove). An alternator on the other hand alternates the amount of voltage produce so that it does not overcharge your battery, thereby eliminating the need for a reg/rec. If you have a reg/rec I think you have a stator/rotor and not an alternator. Someone should be along soon to correct everything here and tell me to stick to carbs (where i know even less) or suspensions where I talk so long I confuse myself. it is 62 degrees oput right now. I think I will go for a ride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer eastbowl2 Posted February 15, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted February 15, 2013 The 7th gen does not have an alternator. It uses a stator and regulator/rectifier. I know because I have a spare OEM reg/rec sitting in my garage right now. And I have installed a volt-meter (ripped it off my 6th gen). I still don't get why Honda wouldn't install a volt-meter in the first place. It must cost next to nothing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kman Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 The benefit that an alternator has is that the rotor which generates the magnetic field is variable (an electromagnet) that is controlled by the regulator.When a small amount of charging is needed (low electrical load on system) then it uses a small amount of current through the rotor generating a weaker magnetic field. This results in a lower output through the stator windings and less work for the rectifier and voltage regulator. The VFR charging system uses fixed magnets on the rotor which results in a fixed amount of current and voltage depending on rpm. At higher rpm the output is high regardless of system requirements(high beams,heated grips etc.). This means that the R/R must shed the excess current which is why it gets hot as it transforms it into heat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianF Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 Has anyone actually heard of any type of electrical issue with the 7th gen? I've got 20k+ on mine now, and the only thing I've had is that my hi-beam switch has to be toggled a few times to get the brights to come on. I'm all for peace of mind, but I'm just not sure what the worry is based on. When erring on the side of caution only costs a few bucks, why wouldn't err every time? Don't mean to come off like a d--k, just wondering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Polarbear Posted February 15, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted February 15, 2013 The benefit that an alternator has is that the rotor which generates the magnetic field is variable (an electromagnet) that is controlled by the regulator.When a small amount of charging is needed (low electrical load on system) then it uses a small amount of current through the rotor generating a weaker magnetic field. This results in a lower output through the stator windings and less work for the rectifier and voltage regulator. The VFR charging system uses fixed magnets on the rotor which results in a fixed amount of current and voltage depending on rpm. At higher rpm the output is high regardless of system requirements(high beams,heated grips etc.). This means that the R/R must shed the excess current which is why it gets hot as it transforms it into heat. So, following this reasoning, we may be doing our r/r a favor by installing heated grips and running them, right? I thought we could be steessing the charging system, but it is the other way around. C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kman Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 As long as you don't exceed the rated output of the charging system and leave enough capacity to maintain the battery, then yes you are ok,It also goes without saying that connections and terminals must be in good condition as any additional resistance in the circuits will cause a source of failure (corroded terminals,loose terminals etc) and then you are repairing melted connectors and wires. k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
interceptorrider Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 Has anyone actually heard of any type of electrical issue with the 7th gen? I've got 20k+ on mine now, and the only thing I've had is that my hi-beam switch has to be toggled a few times to get the brights to come on.I'm all for peace of mind, but I'm just not sure what the worry is based on. When erring on the side of caution only costs a few bucks, why wouldn't err every time? Don't mean to come off like a d--k, just wondering. Ditto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ilprofessore Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 The charging system on 1200 seems a lot stronger than in the previous VFR. The layout is more or less identical (alternator + regulator/rectifier), but the 2 main components are different. The coils in the stator is now oil cooled (by 3 jets) and then the failure due to resin coocking (tipical for the Vtec) is a lot more difficult. The Regulator/Rectifier is FET type (less heat), a lot bigger and more ventilated. In general, the electrical system is a lot better than the previous VFR and, in my opinion, there is a lot less possibilities of a failure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Yokel Posted February 15, 2013 Author Member Contributer Share Posted February 15, 2013 Has anyone actually heard of any type of electrical issue with the 7th gen? I've got 20k+ on mine now, and the only thing I've had is that my hi-beam switch has to be toggled a few times to get the brights to come on. I'm all for peace of mind, but I'm just not sure what the worry is based on. When erring on the side of caution only costs a few bucks, why wouldn't err every time? Don't mean to come off like a d--k, just wondering. No, I've not heard of any electrical issues yet... This was more of a thinking out loud thing. Many of the RR/Stator problems I've read about have been at about the 30k mark (+ or - obviously) on the prior generation bikes... figure there may be a few Gen7 owners creeping up there and was wondering if anyone's considered it. One of the things I really like about my Gen7 is the stone-cold reliability. It's just been totally trouble free. I was looking through some of the repair threads and volt meter installs. That got me thinking, "Not to hard to put on..." Naturally, that leads to "Wonder if I should?" I'm fairly ignorant about electrical systems, and know next to nothing about the electrical system on this machine... that's what got me to start the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer CornerCarver Posted February 15, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted February 15, 2013 Has anyone actually heard of any type of electrical issue with the 7th gen? I've got 20k+ on mine now, and the only thing I've had is that my hi-beam switch has to be toggled a few times to get the brights to come on. I'm all for peace of mind, but I'm just not sure what the worry is based on. When erring on the side of caution only costs a few bucks, why wouldn't err every time? Don't mean to come off like a d--k, just wondering. I've not heard of any issues either but I also have not heard of any issues with the stock valve stem caps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianF Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 I've not heard of any issues either but I also have not heard of any issues with the stock valve stem caps. I wouldn't know, I have chrome ones. They only cost a few bucks, so why not? Wasn't trying to start a fire, just thought maybe I was missing something. I had tons of problems on my '03, all before 9,000 miles. The 7th gen seems bullet-proof, and I haven't heard anything to the contrary. I'm a very logical person, and it seems counterintuitive to worry about something that doesn't have precedent. That's all I was thinking. However, I'm EXTREMELY ignorant when it comes to electricity in general, so not really my place to jump in I guess... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 Question: do the wires melt because of the current through them or the temperature of the environment around them? I thought the melting is due to the local environment. As such, why not wrap the wiring in some sort of heat shielding tape? Anyone done this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer CornerCarver Posted February 16, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted February 16, 2013 when they melt it is generally because of a weak connection, either ground or within the three wire connectors between stator and reg/rec. when you have a poor connection it is like using too small a gauge of wire for the amperage, result is smoke and tears... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 when they melt it is generally because of a weak connection, either ground or within the three wire connectors between stator and reg/rec. when you have a poor connection it is like using too small a gauge of wire for the amperage, result is smoke and tears... so not environmental... I haven't heard of similar problems on other motorcycles so what is it about our connectors that sucks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer gll429 Posted February 16, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted February 16, 2013 when they melt it is generally because of a weak connection, either ground or within the three wire connectors between stator and reg/rec. when you have a poor connection it is like using too small a gauge of wire for the amperage, result is smoke and tears... so not environmental... I haven't heard of similar problems on other motorcycles so what is it about our connectors that sucks? being a cycle mechanic.. i can tell you i have seen it on every brand of bike and car.. a few airplanes. computers and cell phones... but yes.. our bikes should have the connectors cleaned.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Yokel Posted February 16, 2013 Author Member Contributer Share Posted February 16, 2013 Wasn't trying to start a fire, just thought maybe I was missing something. I doubt anyone took it that way, Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spud786 Posted February 16, 2013 Share Posted February 16, 2013 Altenators, normally have built in regulators, I think thats the reason they used to fail much more frequent. Nowadays they dont seem to fail on newer vehicles, I know my colorado has a Huge regulator with big fins on it seperate from the altenator, and the vehicle 106,000 miles. 30 years ago altenators never went that long. NOw my 3/4 ton chevy(1998) have a altenator with built in reg(30 year old technology), and it failed around 50,000 miles, much like the vfr stator. The average vfr stator life is above 50,000 mile though, very above average for a motorcycle stator. I think people confuse the Kronic 5th gen rr issue, 6th gens and(o6+) have much less rr issues, as long as you prep your wiring, before it gets damaged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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