Ohlins Spring Rates

[Dobs]

Guys,

I've had my bike now for 18 months. I've never been happy with the suspension so decided to splurge on a rear Ohlins shock (S46HR1C1S from here http://www.indysuper...oductid=7111625). Before I ordered, I called Ohlins to ask what spring rate they recommend for my weight (210 naked, 225-230 with gear). They recommended going 1 rate up from the standard that comes with the damper (standard 1024 lbs/inch to 1085 lbs/inch, 180 N/mm to 190 N/mm). Do you think they recommended the correct spring for my weight?

I'll probably also upgrade the fork springs. Ohlins list 2 rates for the VFR 1200 (10 and 11 N/mm) http://www.ohlins.com/Product-search/?query=Honda+VFR+1200+F+2010-2010

Any suggestions on which rate I should get for my weight? I seldom ride 2-up.

Thanks in advance for any advice you can give.

Graham

[Baileyrock]

Welcome to VFRD!!!

Sorry, I don't know 7th gen info. If it has the same rocker ratio on the SSSA as a 6th gen I would say it was Low, but not knowing leaves me w/o suggestion.

Hopefully other 7th gen owners will post up for you.

HS did install his 5th gen Ohlins on his 7th gen and likes it. Based on that I would think you would need at least a 20-21kg spring (1125-1175lbs)

PM HS

[timmythecop]

I checked with Thermosman, the head of Ohlins Racing shop and he replied that it doesnt matter that much because either one will be light years better. He went on to say if you do not like the spring you end up with, you can exchange it for a different one. I hope that helps.

[Baileyrock]

I checked with Thermosman, the head of Ohlins Racing shop and he replied that it doesnt matter that much because either one will be light years better. He went on to say if you do not like the spring you end up with, you can exchange it for a different one. I hope that helps.

T-man is one of the best if you have a SS race bike, but he like many tuners have little knowledge of VFR needs and he like most probably has an error-ed rear spring rate calculator for the VFR.

Also true one step change will make little difference, but you might as well get the Correct rate if your spending the bucks to do it right!

BR

[ilprofessore]

My FG Gubellini has a spring rate of 210 N/mm and it is perfect for me.

I always prefer a strong spring that allows a small preload. It seems strange, but the bike is more comfortable.

My weight is 190 lb

[eastbowl2]

Traxxion Dynamics set me up with a 1200lb/ft spring on my Penske. I'm 185. It works great and the sag numbers are good with me kitted up for touring.

[Dobs]

Thanks for your advice guys. I think I'll return the spring for the 1200 lbs/in one. I'll let you know what I think of the suspension when I get it installed.

Graham

[ilprofessore]

Traxxion Dynamics set me up with a 1200lb/ft spring on my Penske. I'm 185. It works great and the sag numbers are good with me kitted up for touring.

You mean 1200 lb/in?

[c5ip]

I have a Penske with a 1100 lb/in spring and weigh 150 lbs. It works great and the shock was a significant improvement over stock. It really helped settle the back end down, especially when pushing the bike through the turns.

[Baileyrock]

Thanks for your advice guys. I think I'll return the spring for the 1200 lbs/in one. I'll let you know what I think of the suspension when I get it installed.

Graham

Based on my earlier thoughts and the added info from other 1200 members I would suggest at least a 1250 lb springs maybe a 1300 as you are 30 lbs heavier than the eastbowl at 185lb w/1200 lb spring.

BR

[eastbowl2]

Traxxion Dynamics set me up with a 1200lb/ft spring on my Penske. I'm 185. It works great and the sag numbers are good with me kitted up for touring.

You mean 1200 lb/in?

Yep. Thanks.

[Dobs]

BR - Good suggestion but I think the stiffest spring Ohlins does is 1199 lbs/inch (01092-89 is the part number). By my calculations, this is approximately 17% stiffer than the stock spring. Even though it wouldn't be ideal for my weight, it should be a major improvement. It might even give me some motivation to lose a few pounds!

[Dobs]

Guys,

Just been on the phone with Matt from Ohlins for about 30 mins. He's a very knowledgeable & helpful guy but I'm more confused than ever! He's willing to change out my spring for a 200 or 210N/mm (1142 or 1199 lbs/in) spring but was wondering what kind of preload and sag you guys have with 1200lbs/in springs. He admits he doesn't have much data on the VFR1200. Interestingly, he says the rear wheel travel is 130mm so the ideal rider sag should be around 43mm.

G.

[JamieDaugherty]

Pretty typical stuff from Ohlins. They expect you to run a soft spring and just crank down the preload to "make it work". Doing that doesn't net the best results, getting the correct spring rate is the best way (of course).

FWIW I would suggest a 1200lb/in spring for your weight.

[NakedViffer]

Not like you have to run the ohlins spring on the shock... You have options if you'd like it a little stiffer.

[Dobs]

So the saga continues....

I went into Evolution Motorcycles in San Jose (http://www.evolution-motorcycles.com/) on Friday to discuss fork upgrades. They have a good reputation for suspension work but I personally haven't used them before.

While I was in, Rob the owner checked my rear sag and, after dialing in some preload, got 10mm free and 40mm static sag (me weighing 230lbs with my gear on). He thinks the stock spring is fine for me and that I shouldn't change my 1085 lb/in Ohlins spring (shock not installed yet) for anything stiffer.

Today, I played around with the rear preload and got the figures below. Do you think I need a 1200lb/in spring after all? There's no substitute for the feedback you guys have given me (actual VFR 1200 owners with aftermarket shocks, rather than theoretical sag targets) but many people rave about Rob's ability to dial in suspensions (http://www.yelp.com/biz/evolution-motorcycles-santa-clara). I'm still planning to go with the 1200lb/in spring but I'm concerned that I'll have to run with minimal preload which may give me too much free sag.

Sorry for all the questions but I'd rather get the spring rate right 1st time. I'd rather not have to install the shock then take it back off to send to Ohlins. Those fairings are a pain to take off and put back on!

Thanks,

G.

12 clicks in from zero preload

12mm free sag, 42mm static sag

16 clicks in from zero preload

10mm free sag, 39mm static sag

20 clicks in from zero preload

7mm free sag, 34 static sag

(rode with this setting and suspension seemed to top out - the rear wheel was losing traction when doing full-throttle acceleration on a freeway on ramp)

[JamieDaugherty]

Yes, you need a higher rate spring. I'm pretty surprised that your guy thought your stock spring rate was ok (and then said something considerably higher was ok too?).

Don't worry at all about static sag. I see this all of the time: guys will get all concerned because they are so focused on this one number. What is the purpose? When does the bike not have a rider on board? Never, so it's meaningless. Do not worry about it!

Spring rates are much more complicated than most people realize. It is best to stick with rates that are known to work well, then set your rider sag and enjoy!

[pete2]

So the saga continues....

I went into Evolution Motorcycles in San Jose (http://www.evolution-motorcycles.com/) on Friday to discuss fork upgrades. They have a good reputation for suspension work but I personally haven't used them before.

While I was in, Rob the owner checked my rear sag and, after dialing in some preload, got 10mm free and 40mm static sag (me weighing 230lbs with my gear on). He thinks the stock spring is fine for me and that I shouldn't change my 1085 lb/in Ohlins spring (shock not installed yet) for anything stiffer.

Today, I played around with the rear preload and got the figures below. Do you think I need a 1200lb/in spring after all? There's no substitute for the feedback you guys have given me (actual VFR 1200 owners with aftermarket shocks, rather than theoretical sag targets) but many people rave about Rob's ability to dial in suspensions (http://www.yelp.com/biz/evolution-motorcycles-santa-clara). I'm still planning to go with the 1200lb/in spring but I'm concerned that I'll have to run with minimal preload which may give me too much free sag.

Sorry for all the questions but I'd rather get the spring rate right 1st time. I'd rather not have to install the shock then take it back off to send to Ohlins. Those fairings are a pain to take off and put back on!

Thanks,

G.

12 clicks in from zero preload

12mm free sag, 42mm static sag

16 clicks in from zero preload

10mm free sag, 39mm static sag

20 clicks in from zero preload

7mm free sag, 34 static sag

(rode with this setting and suspension seemed to top out - the rear wheel was losing traction when doing full-throttle acceleration on a freeway on ramp)

I'm not at all sure you need a higher spring rate. Stiffer spring means also more uncomfortable ride. I went to stiffer spring but that is because I want to ride with my wife + bags. Now I have 5 clicks when I ride alone and max clicks with full gear + companion. If I were you I would stick with that spring but then you have to have all the weight when you made those measurements. In my case I had to make a compromize.

[ilprofessore]

With stock spring (and shock adsorber) after 10k km I use full preload riding solo.

Riding 2 up was a pain, the central stand was always on the tarmac.

It means that not only the spring rate is important, but also the idraulic force is important.

The stock mono is a disaster from this point of view, while the aftermarket shocks with separate reservoir are a lot better (like Ohlins or my FG Gubellini)..

I do not care too much to static sag or other "race" setting.

I use the bike, change the setting a little bit and I listen my "feeling"..

When I feel "well", I save the setting on paper. Then I change only if something changes (new tyres, different tarmac etc).

With FG spring at 1200 lb/in (210 N/mm) my VFR is more comfortable than before (also the idraulic is important) and the grip in slippery conditions is good.

[Dobs]

UPDATE

I finally got my shock back from Ohlins with the 1200 lb spring. It took me about 5 hours to install start to finish. I would be much quicker a 2nd time. I struggled to get the old shock out the bottom until I took weight off the fully extended rear wheel. Putting a barbell weight under the tire allowed the linkage to move out of the way so I could drop the shock. Installing the new shock was also a bit tricky. I'd recommend putting thin socks (as I did) or plastic bags over the preload adjuster and external reservoir so they don't get scraped passing through the swingarm.

I took the bike out for a quick ride last night after the installation and....WOW! What a difference. The vague feeling which gave me no confidence going into turns is totally gone. Also, it seems silky smooth. Going from 1024 lbs (stock) to 1200 lbs definitely hasn't hurt ride quality.

I wonder if the spring will settle any. The rear is sitting a little higher than I like. I had to remove all external preload and still could only get 30mm of sag with me on the bike (kitted). The bike alone gives only 8mm of sag.

It feels fantastic now (and ultimately that's what matters) but I'd rather have some external preload that I can dial out. I've found that when I get new tires (with higher centers) I often have to lower the rear slightly otherwise the handling can be a bit twitchy. I'm running on tires with about 4000 miles on them, so the rear is starting to square off.

Now, I wonder what difference a fork upgrade would make. :-)

G.

[eastbowl2]

Now, I wonder what difference a fork upgrade would make. :-)

G.

Only one way to find out! :)

[Solomoto]

UPDATE

I finally got my shock back from Ohlins with the 1200 lb spring. It took me about 5 hours to install start to finish. I would be much quicker a 2nd time. I struggled to get the old shock out the bottom until I took weight off the fully extended rear wheel. Putting a barbell weight under the tire allowed the linkage to move out of the way so I could drop the shock. Installing the new shock was also a bit tricky. I'd recommend putting thin socks (as I did) or plastic bags over the preload adjuster and external reservoir so they don't get scraped passing through the swingarm.

I took the bike out for a quick ride last night after the installation and....WOW! What a difference. The vague feeling which gave me no confidence going into turns is totally gone. Also, it seems silky smooth. Going from 1024 lbs (stock) to 1200 lbs definitely hasn't hurt ride quality.

I wonder if the spring will settle any. The rear is sitting a little higher than I like. I had to remove all external preload and still could only get 30mm of sag with me on the bike (kitted). The bike alone gives only 8mm of sag.

It feels fantastic now (and ultimately that's what matters) but I'd rather have some external preload that I can dial out. I've found that when I get new tires (with higher centers) I often have to lower the rear slightly otherwise the handling can be a bit twitchy. I'm running on tires with about 4000 miles on them, so the rear is starting to square off.

Now, I wonder what difference a fork upgrade would make. :-)

G.

Hi Dobs,

I happen to live in San Jose also and I had Rob at Evolution Suspension set up my Penske 8983 and tune my forks. Originally I had 1200 lb/in. on my shock but for me that was too much, I had Rob install the stock VFR spring (1035 lb/in.) and this worked out just right for me. The rule of thumb I've found among tuners is 10mm free sag plus 25-30mm with rider for a total of 35-40mm total static sag. Unlike what a previous poster said, the slope of the spring force vs. displacement function requires 2 data points to determine the spring rate (or slope of the curve) which is why both free sag and static sag are needed to determine the spring rate.

For the forks, he adjusted the compression and rebound stack for general road sport riding, and the springs are now linear 1kg/mm vs. the original progressive. For your weight you might need 1.1kg/mm. Also, the stock sag was 48mm (for my weight), the internal preload was adjusted to give 40mm sag. Since this raised the front end ride height by 8mm compared to stock, I raised the fork stanchions by 8mm to restore the original ride height.

Once you get the internals tuned, then it's a matter of tuning the external compression and rebound to give the desired ride. Rebound has the most dynamic effect, too much rebound and the ride becomes very harsh but stable, too little rebound and the ride becomes wallowy or floaty with less control. According to basic tuning guideline from Penske, the easiest process is to separate the rebound and compression adjustments. First dial out rebound to minimum and compression to minimum. Find a straight road with moderate bumps and gradually increase compression damping until the initial hit starts to become noticeably sharp, then back off a click or two. The ride will be wallowy or floaty at this point without the rebound damping. Then gradually increase rebound damping until the floatyness stabilizes, too much rebound and you'll notice the ride start to become harsh (almost like too much compression). Next take it out to your favorite sweepers and check for stability, if it still feels wallowy, then dial in more rebound a click at a time. The same idea works for both front and rear. It will take a bit of experimentation to help distinguish the front from the rear response as sometimes what feels like the back end may be caused by the front end or vice versa. Hope this helps.

[pete2]

"Also, the stock sag was 48mm (for my weight), the internal preload was adjusted to give 40mm sag. Since this raised the front end ride height by 8mm compared to stock, I raised the fork stanchions by 8mm to restore the original ride height."

I thought to do the same. To make sure I first dropped the front down to simulate the full compression of the springs. There was very little space above the fender. What was even more alarming was the fender extender that was very close to the plastic cover below the radiator. It almost seemed possible that the extender might slip to the wrong side of the cover (that could cause the jamming of the steering). Note that the extender is an after market part. So I didn't do it.

[Dobs]

UPDATE

I finally got my shock back from Ohlins with the 1200 lb spring. It took me about 5 hours to install start to finish. I would be much quicker a 2nd time. I struggled to get the old shock out the bottom until I took weight off the fully extended rear wheel. Putting a barbell weight under the tire allowed the linkage to move out of the way so I could drop the shock. Installing the new shock was also a bit tricky. I'd recommend putting thin socks (as I did) or plastic bags over the preload adjuster and external reservoir so they don't get scraped passing through the swingarm.

I took the bike out for a quick ride last night after the installation and....WOW! What a difference. The vague feeling which gave me no confidence going into turns is totally gone. Also, it seems silky smooth. Going from 1024 lbs (stock) to 1200 lbs definitely hasn't hurt ride quality.

I wonder if the spring will settle any. The rear is sitting a little higher than I like. I had to remove all external preload and still could only get 30mm of sag with me on the bike (kitted). The bike alone gives only 8mm of sag.

It feels fantastic now (and ultimately that's what matters) but I'd rather have some external preload that I can dial out. I've found that when I get new tires (with higher centers) I often have to lower the rear slightly otherwise the handling can be a bit twitchy. I'm running on tires with about 4000 miles on them, so the rear is starting to square off.

Now, I wonder what difference a fork upgrade would make. :-)

G.

Hi Dobs,

I happen to live in San Jose also and I had Rob at Evolution Suspension set up my Penske 8983 and tune my forks. Originally I had 1200 lb/in. on my shock but for me that was too much, I had Rob install the stock VFR spring (1035 lb/in.) and this worked out just right for me. The rule of thumb I've found among tuners is 10mm free sag plus 25-30mm with rider for a total of 35-40mm total static sag. Unlike what a previous poster said, the slope of the spring force vs. displacement function requires 2 data points to determine the spring rate (or slope of the curve) which is why both free sag and static sag are needed to determine the spring rate.

For the forks, he adjusted the compression and rebound stack for general road sport riding, and the springs are now linear 1kg/mm vs. the original progressive. For your weight you might need 1.1kg/mm. Also, the stock sag was 48mm (for my weight), the internal preload was adjusted to give 40mm sag. Since this raised the front end ride height by 8mm compared to stock, I raised the fork stanchions by 8mm to restore the original ride height.

Once you get the internals tuned, then it's a matter of tuning the external compression and rebound to give the desired ride. Rebound has the most dynamic effect, too much rebound and the ride becomes very harsh but stable, too little rebound and the ride becomes wallowy or floaty with less control. According to basic tuning guideline from Penske, the easiest process is to separate the rebound and compression adjustments. First dial out rebound to minimum and compression to minimum. Find a straight road with moderate bumps and gradually increase compression damping until the initial hit starts to become noticeably sharp, then back off a click or two. The ride will be wallowy or floaty at this point without the rebound damping. Then gradually increase rebound damping until the floatyness stabilizes, too much rebound and you'll notice the ride start to become harsh (almost like too much compression). Next take it out to your favorite sweepers and check for stability, if it still feels wallowy, then dial in more rebound a click at a time. The same idea works for both front and rear. It will take a bit of experimentation to help distinguish the front from the rear response as sometimes what feels like the back end may be caused by the front end or vice versa. Hope this helps.

Thanks for the very useful info Solomoto. Do you mind me asking how much you weigh with gear?

[Baileyrock]

The rule of thumb I've found among tuners is 10mm free sag plus 25-30mm with rider for a total of 35-40mm total static sag.

You don't add the two together for a total. It's 10mm of Free sag, the 25-30mm of Rider Sag includes the 10mm of free sag! Otherwise Great info and dead on stating you Need Both Free & rider sag numbers in order to ascertain correct spring rate.

Unless your saying 10mm Free and 35-40mm Rider sag? Rider Sag is the Total sag.

BR