Dobs

Folks, It's fixed! Thanks for all your suggestions. Sorry for the delay in replying. I to wanted to get to the bottom of this before replying. Since my last post (with the eBay throttle body on) I tried disconnecting the battery before running the bike for 15 minutes without touching the throttle. This made no difference. I then put my original throttle body back on and did the same procedure. No difference. Worrying that one of my cam sprockets might be off a tooth, causing low vacuum due to valve timing being off, I tore everything down again, removed the valve covers and checked the sprocket alignment marks. Both sprockets were fine. I also checked electrical continuity between all sensors and the ECU multi-pin connectors. Having ruled out MAP sensor, IAT sensor, air leak and valve timing, I turned to a problem with the ECU or throttle body. I decided to take the bike to my local Honda dealership in case their HDS could diagnose an issue or recalibrate the idle. I put the newer (eBay) throttle body back on (I thought, if calibration is possible, I may as well have the newer body calibrated) and went to the dealership this afternoon. It turns out (not what I was told by the service dept a few weeks ago) that the HDS (Honda Diagnostic System) can reset TCP and/or TP values. The tech discovered that the "TP SENSOR 1 (Angle)" and "TP SENSOR 2 (Angle)" values were at 2 degrees when the target is 1 degree. The ECU thought I twisting the throttle by 1 degree and opened the butterflies slightly. After recalibrating the sensor voltages, they now both read 1 degree. Idle is now down to just above 1100 RPM. Yay! I now suspect that installing the throttle body from eBay changed voltage reference values in the ECU that were not reset by installing the original body. Even though the service manual states that idle can't be adjusted and is set automatically by the ECU, it is possible for a dealer to recalibrate the throttle body with HDS. I've attached the before and after HDS print-outs. Thanks again for all your advice. Before calibration: After calibration:

Would that not cause the MIL to come on? I've checked for DTC error codes are there aren't any. Thanks for the suggestion though.

There's nothing in the service manual about calibrating the TPS. I wonder if there is a dealer-only service manual with more info.

Thanks for your post @BusyLittleShop I replaced the intake rubber boots and o rings and did my crude check for leaks. I guess it might be time to buy a smoke machine. I notice that the butterflies open very slightly (perhaps an 1/16") when the ignition is turned on. Should they be totally closed or is this normal?

Edit: sorry, I just realized I had not stated that I have a VFR 1200. I've edited the original post too. Thanks guys. @Fritzer, I don't see a download for the 2014 VFR 1200, just for the VFR800. As far as I know, the VFR1200 doesn't have a manual idle adjustment. On page 6-78 of the 2010 VFR1200 service manual under "Idle Speed Inspection": "This system eliminates the need for manual idle speed adjustment compared to previous designs". @Cogswell, I blocked off the throttle openings with 50mm rubber stoppers, taped off the small bypass holes, attached a hose to the MAP hose, and gently blew into the hose (don't have a smoke machine). I could not hear any hissing and felt no give when blowing (no air leaking). I know this is not very scientific but I don't think I have a vacuum leak (and definitely not a major one), especially after changing the intake insulators.

After 115,000 miles with everything running perfectly, I stripped everything down my VFR 1200 to change the plugs and check the valve clearances. The old plugs were a perfect light-brown color and all valve clearances were within spec. I re-assembled everything, replacing the throttle body as a proactive measure, with a pristine unit I bought from eBay a few years ago. I also replaced the air filter element with a new OEM element. When I fired the bike up, it idled at 2,000 RPM. Thinking it might be due to the new air filter and that the ECU might need to re-learn something, I removed the battery for an hour and then took the VFR on a long (180 mile) ride. On the way home, the idle was even higher (around 2,500 RPM). I then assumed that there must be a problem with the newer throttle body so I put the original back on. No difference. Suspecting I may have a vacuum leak around the aging intake rubber insulators (the rubber circular mounts for the throttle body) I replaced them. I also found a heavily-discounted new MAP sensor on eBay so bought and installed that too. While I had the throttle body off to install the new insulators, I opened up the valve covers again just to double check the clearances and to to make sure there were no valve cover gasket issues. You can imagine my disappointment when I started up after replacing the insulators and MAP sensor and the idle was still around 2,000 RPM. Any suggestions? The ECU is supposed to keep the idle at around 1,100 RPM. Anyone know how it does this? Any way to force a re-learn? Graham

Thanks guys. I got them off. I had a bit of trouble getting them out the lower clamp. I ended up using a flat screwdriver to pry the clamp open slightly. The bars are sitting on top of microfiber towels, cable tied to the upper clamp. I like the suggestion of using a dowel with a washer!

After 70,000 miles and a leaking fork seal, it's time to service my forks. The manual says to remove the handlebars, including the grips and master cylinders, before removing the forks. Is this absolutely necessary? Is it possible to loosen the bar pinch nuts and drop the forks down without removing the bars? G.

It wasn't running well (difficult to start, down on power). I suspected I had a burnt exhaust valve due to a leaky exhaust gasket (had had the silencer off and on several times without replacing the gasket and it was definitely leaking) so I did compression and leak-down tests (on a cold engine) when I could get to the front cylinders while doing the valves. After my initial post, I had accepted that I had about 5% leakage on 2 cylinders (which wouldn't have been a problem) and reassembled the bike and started it up to make sure everything was ok. I let the engine warm up then decided to try another leak-down test on one of the rear cylinders that was previously leaking. To my surprise, that cylinder was now perfect - no detectable leakage, same as the cylinder adjacent to it. I suspect the exhaust valves on that cylinder weren't seating properly by just rotating the engine by hand, they needed the force of combustion to fully seat them. Either that or the valves needed to expand slightly with heat to seal fully. So, the moral of the story is.....don't trust compression or leak-down tests done on a cold engine. Thanks for your replies guys. G.

Has anyone done a compression or leak-down test on their VFR1200? I just did a leak-down test and noticed something weird. It looks like the rear left (#2) and front right (#4) cylinders leak about 5% into the adjacent cylinder (I can hear air coming out the open intake valves on the adjacent cylinder). Interestingly, when I test the adjacent cylinders (#1 & #3) the leakage is practically zero (maybe 1%), so the leakage appears to be in one direction only. I was wondering whether this is a feature of the VFR1200 or that I have 2 blown cylinder head gaskets. I know I would be very unlucky to experience blown gaskets on both heads, so I'm thinking it must be a feature of the 1200. Something to do with the sealed crankcase? Should I be concerned? Is 5% leakage worth worrying about? I also did a compression test and got 210, 185, 210 & 195 PSI on cylinders 1,2,3 & 4 respectively. I work this out to be a difference of 12% between the best and worst cylinders. Is this acceptable? Graham

Thanks for your reply HispanicSlammer.

I'm in the middle of checking my valves. What a PITA getting the front cover off! In this thread, a few of you said your clearances were out on the exhaust valves but didn't say whether they were tight or loose. I'm interested to know which. It looks like all my exhaust valves are about 0.001" to 0.002" too loose. Do the VFR1200 valves get loose with wear? I know it's usual for exhaust valves to tighten as the valves wear their seats. G.

Guys, I recently noticed quite a loud electronic squealing noise (sounds like a camera flash gun charging) coming from under the tank when the ignition is switched on without the engine running. This is after the initial priming of the fuel rails. While I had the tank off for other work, I tracked down the noise to the throttle by wire unit attached to the throttle bodies. The noise varies with throttle position. I'm wondering if my TBW unit is faulty. I can't remember hearing this before. Is this normal? G.

Hi Dobs, I happen to live in San Jose also and I had Rob at Evolution Suspension set up my Penske 8983 and tune my forks. Originally I had 1200 lb/in. on my shock but for me that was too much, I had Rob install the stock VFR spring (1035 lb/in.) and this worked out just right for me. The rule of thumb I've found among tuners is 10mm free sag plus 25-30mm with rider for a total of 35-40mm total static sag. Unlike what a previous poster said, the slope of the spring force vs. displacement function requires 2 data points to determine the spring rate (or slope of the curve) which is why both free sag and static sag are needed to determine the spring rate. For the forks, he adjusted the compression and rebound stack for general road sport riding, and the springs are now linear 1kg/mm vs. the original progressive. For your weight you might need 1.1kg/mm. Also, the stock sag was 48mm (for my weight), the internal preload was adjusted to give 40mm sag. Since this raised the front end ride height by 8mm compared to stock, I raised the fork stanchions by 8mm to restore the original ride height. Once you get the internals tuned, then it's a matter of tuning the external compression and rebound to give the desired ride. Rebound has the most dynamic effect, too much rebound and the ride becomes very harsh but stable, too little rebound and the ride becomes wallowy or floaty with less control. According to basic tuning guideline from Penske, the easiest process is to separate the rebound and compression adjustments. First dial out rebound to minimum and compression to minimum. Find a straight road with moderate bumps and gradually increase compression damping until the initial hit starts to become noticeably sharp, then back off a click or two. The ride will be wallowy or floaty at this point without the rebound damping. Then gradually increase rebound damping until the floatyness stabilizes, too much rebound and you'll notice the ride start to become harsh (almost like too much compression). Next take it out to your favorite sweepers and check for stability, if it still feels wallowy, then dial in more rebound a click at a time. The same idea works for both front and rear. It will take a bit of experimentation to help distinguish the front from the rear response as sometimes what feels like the back end may be caused by the front end or vice versa. Hope this helps. Thanks for the very useful info Solomoto. Do you mind me asking how much you weigh with gear?

UPDATE I finally got my shock back from Ohlins with the 1200 lb spring. It took me about 5 hours to install start to finish. I would be much quicker a 2nd time. I struggled to get the old shock out the bottom until I took weight off the fully extended rear wheel. Putting a barbell weight under the tire allowed the linkage to move out of the way so I could drop the shock. Installing the new shock was also a bit tricky. I'd recommend putting thin socks (as I did) or plastic bags over the preload adjuster and external reservoir so they don't get scraped passing through the swingarm. I took the bike out for a quick ride last night after the installation and....WOW! What a difference. The vague feeling which gave me no confidence going into turns is totally gone. Also, it seems silky smooth. Going from 1024 lbs (stock) to 1200 lbs definitely hasn't hurt ride quality. I wonder if the spring will settle any. The rear is sitting a little higher than I like. I had to remove all external preload and still could only get 30mm of sag with me on the bike (kitted). The bike alone gives only 8mm of sag. It feels fantastic now (and ultimately that's what matters) but I'd rather have some external preload that I can dial out. I've found that when I get new tires (with higher centers) I often have to lower the rear slightly otherwise the handling can be a bit twitchy. I'm running on tires with about 4000 miles on them, so the rear is starting to square off. Now, I wonder what difference a fork upgrade would make. :-) G.

So the saga continues.... I went into Evolution Motorcycles in San Jose (http://www.evolution-motorcycles.com/) on Friday to discuss fork upgrades. They have a good reputation for suspension work but I personally haven't used them before. While I was in, Rob the owner checked my rear sag and, after dialing in some preload, got 10mm free and 40mm static sag (me weighing 230lbs with my gear on). He thinks the stock spring is fine for me and that I shouldn't change my 1085 lb/in Ohlins spring (shock not installed yet) for anything stiffer. Today, I played around with the rear preload and got the figures below. Do you think I need a 1200lb/in spring after all? There's no substitute for the feedback you guys have given me (actual VFR 1200 owners with aftermarket shocks, rather than theoretical sag targets) but many people rave about Rob's ability to dial in suspensions (http://www.yelp.com/biz/evolution-motorcycles-santa-clara). I'm still planning to go with the 1200lb/in spring but I'm concerned that I'll have to run with minimal preload which may give me too much free sag. Sorry for all the questions but I'd rather get the spring rate right 1st time. I'd rather not have to install the shock then take it back off to send to Ohlins. Those fairings are a pain to take off and put back on! Thanks, G. 12 clicks in from zero preload 12mm free sag, 42mm static sag 16 clicks in from zero preload 10mm free sag, 39mm static sag 20 clicks in from zero preload 7mm free sag, 34 static sag (rode with this setting and suspension seemed to top out - the rear wheel was losing traction when doing full-throttle acceleration on a freeway on ramp)

Guys, Just been on the phone with Matt from Ohlins for about 30 mins. He's a very knowledgeable & helpful guy but I'm more confused than ever! He's willing to change out my spring for a 200 or 210N/mm (1142 or 1199 lbs/in) spring but was wondering what kind of preload and sag you guys have with 1200lbs/in springs. He admits he doesn't have much data on the VFR1200. Interestingly, he says the rear wheel travel is 130mm so the ideal rider sag should be around 43mm. G.

BR - Good suggestion but I think the stiffest spring Ohlins does is 1199 lbs/inch (01092-89 is the part number). By my calculations, this is approximately 17% stiffer than the stock spring. Even though it wouldn't be ideal for my weight, it should be a major improvement. It might even give me some motivation to lose a few pounds!

Thanks for your advice guys. I think I'll return the spring for the 1200 lbs/in one. I'll let you know what I think of the suspension when I get it installed. Graham

Guys, I've had my bike now for 18 months. I've never been happy with the suspension so decided to splurge on a rear Ohlins shock (S46HR1C1S from here http://www.indysuper...oductid=7111625). Before I ordered, I called Ohlins to ask what spring rate they recommend for my weight (210 naked, 225-230 with gear). They recommended going 1 rate up from the standard that comes with the damper (standard 1024 lbs/inch to 1085 lbs/inch, 180 N/mm to 190 N/mm). Do you think they recommended the correct spring for my weight? I'll probably also upgrade the fork springs. Ohlins list 2 rates for the VFR 1200 (10 and 11 N/mm) http://www.ohlins.com/Product-search/?query=Honda+VFR+1200+F+2010-2010 Any suggestions on which rate I should get for my weight? I seldom ride 2-up. Thanks in advance for any advice you can give. Graham