Member Contributer CharlesW Posted November 5, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted November 5, 2012 Any experience with "X" ring chains? Better, worse than "O" ring? My RK "O" ring chain has done a great job and I think I will probably replace it with the same thing, but maybe I should look into the new "X" ring chains. Latest and greatest or just another alternative? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer gll429 Posted November 5, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted November 5, 2012 you want a ford or a chevy? bmw or an audi? kia or hundai??? O or X ?? get the picture. i have not seen any real difference in the chains. and the x ring has been around for 20 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monk Posted November 5, 2012 Share Posted November 5, 2012 A pictures worth a thousand words. http://www.biketorqueracing.co.uk/btr-tech-station/btr-tech-station-chain-and-sprockets/o-ring-and-x-ring-chains Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Vee-Ef-Ar Posted November 5, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted November 5, 2012 100,000kms on my RK GXW... and counting. Buy the strongest you can afford. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer CharlesW Posted November 6, 2012 Author Member Contributer Share Posted November 6, 2012 I certainly didn't realize that X-ring chain had been around for 20 years. Seems like if it was all that much better it would have taken over as the chain of choice. I have read the various articles that talk about the difference in design, but I was more interested in comments from actual users of the X-ring chain. For those of you that have used the O-ring and the X-ring chain, can you compare them? Did you notice any difference in performance? (Asked mainly because less drag seems to be one of the selling points of the X-Ring chain.) Did you have increased chain life? Would you buy the X-ring chain again? The 60,000+ miles on the X-ring chain sounds impressive. My RK which I think is a basic O-ring has 27,000+ on it since I bought the bike used and seems to be going strong. I have no idea as to the total miles on it. The bike now has 47,000+ and I doubt that it is the original chain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spud786 Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 The xrings last longer than the orings, you wouldnt think so, but they do. I think the xrings generate less heat, this aides the grease inside, sealed chains are all about protecting the grease inside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 I don't mean to be a stick in the mud, but this is like a tire thread. What last longer for you may not be true for other riders. Riding conditions, Chain maint., riding styles, etc.. all takes there tolls on chain life. None of us ride the same. My rulle of thumb is if I possibly get 20K miles on a chain... Good for me. O or X the stretching steel chain is usually the tell tail sign... Well exept for all the noisey clicking and grinding as the chain goes around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer CharlesW Posted November 6, 2012 Author Member Contributer Share Posted November 6, 2012 I don't mean to be a stick in the mud, but this is like a tire thread. What last longer for you may not be true for other riders. Riding conditions, Chain maint., riding styles, etc.. all takes there tolls on chain life. None of us ride the same. My rulle of thumb is if I possibly get 20K miles on a chain... Good for me. O or X the stretching steel chain is usually the tell tail sign... Well exept for all the noisey clicking and grinding as the chain goes around. That's good. The tire threads led me to Michelin Pilot Road 2s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer gll429 Posted November 6, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted November 6, 2012 blah blah blah... the strength comes from the side plates of the chain, and the roller pins. i have seen OEM 630 chains last 250,000 miles 25 freaking YEARS.. it had NO orings.. the owner just lubed it every few months and didn't ride like a jackass.. that was on a gpz750 turbo. on the flip side.. i have seen a vfr snap a chain from a hard launch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 I get my chains at an independent shop, and have always gone with a high-quality chain they recommend. I usually end up getting ~20k out of a chain, with minimal attention paid to it, just a quick cleaning with a grunge brush every couple thousand miles, or when I think of it. "When I think of it" also describes how I determine when I spray down my chain with that teflon stuff I get a Lowes. I'm pretty sure they have all been X-ring, however based on my experience, I'm not going to be on my hands and knees every 500 miles meticulously cleaning the chain. I'm fine with taking a cut-off wheel to the chain and throwing new final drive components on every 20-ish thousand miles. Especially since I don't run them (normally) to the very end of life. (Except for the aluminum sprocket I got, and didn't realize it would only last ~10k miles. The chain was slipping on the sproket very easily by the time I got in a new rear sprocket.) Cost-benefit analysis, don't see myself getting enough more miles out of a final drive to justify the extra effort. Though I always end up picking one of the higher-quality chains. Looking at what I have here in the living room (which I *think* is for the VFR) I have a DID 530 VX. Buy name brand components, install them, and ride. If you don't like them, get something else the next go-around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer kaldek Posted November 6, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted November 6, 2012 My dad fitted a Scottoiler to his 4th-gen and got over 120,000km out of his original factory chain, only changing out the sprockets as they wore. Mind you he's not a sport rider and didn't even notice his clutch was slipping or that his brakes have no bite.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DDO-VFR Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 All three of my chain replacements had nothing to do with x or o rings rather the sprockets were worn and I was at the end of the adjustment capability. Not a sticking link in sight. So while your chain may last forever, your sprockets won't. PS. I lube every 1000km and full cleaning every 10,000km and get 45,000km typically on chain and sprocket set...O-ring btw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer KevininAtlanta Posted November 6, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted November 6, 2012 I had RK O-ring chain on VFR800A for first 22,000 miles and replaced it with a DID X-ring chain. There is no perceivable difference in performance that I am aware of. From this chain thread I can see I am wasting my time to clean and lubricate my chain every 500-800 miles! I will say that MOTUL Chain lube seems to significantly reduce chain noise (possibly friction) compared to Maxxis chain wax. Also, the MOTUL clings to chain during cycle washes with HondaBrite....Maxxis comes right off (pros and cons). Obviously, I am pretty neurotic about maintenance, Kevin in Atlanta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer dirtbag Posted November 6, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted November 6, 2012 i use 50$ kmc o rings and use wd40 when i remember. i ride all year rain/shine. porbably around 30000 km(18k miles?)on my last chain, and my current one probably has around 15k kms. i see no need to spend any more on a chain. i would rather replace it then clean it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer BusyLittleShop Posted November 6, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted November 6, 2012 Any experience with "X" ring chains? Better, worse than "O" ring? The X ring is now the standard used by manufactures... the benefit is lower drag than the old O rings and it sports a reservoir for the yellow color factory installed grease to rest so it will constantly lube itself and the side plates... no amount of external oil will reach this critical junction... your X ring can be all wet on the outside but all dry on the inside... The old O ring which is almost impossible to find now a days... and for good reasons... it sports high drag and no reservoir for factory grease... Mr.RC45's chain and sprockets are changed every 8K miles because of two events that happen... I've adjusted the chain for the 3rd time and the dyno shows a drop in RWHP... it's dropping because of metal to metal wear at the critical pin and roller junction and no amount of wishing and hoping nor external lube can help it now... it will only get progressively worst from here... My definition of a worn out chain is when the factory installed grease fails to lube the critical pin roller junction hidden behind the X ring and metal to metal occurs... I don't call a chain serviceable that is griding metal... it's like saying that a dry bearing that runs ruff is acceptable... I've removed and replaced a lot of chains mostly on 100+ HP water cooled Sportbikes... and I found that at about the 8K mark the factory grease thinned out enough to cause metal to metal wear... you may still claim the chain will last longer... but you may not claim there is no the metal to metal wear going on... the exact amount of metal wear can be measured... A new 525 chain pin measures 206.5 thousands of an inch... after about 8K miles a pin wears down to 205.5... that's only 1 thousands of an inch and hardly noticeable with the naked eye... but .001 x 110 links and it adds up to a whooping .110 thousands of an inch (little less than 1/8 of an inch)... after 15K miles a pin may shows signs of the red death and worn down to .202... that's .495 (little less than 1/2 of an inch)... If you are adjusting your chain... you are taking up the slack due to metal to metal wear on the pins... Mr.RC45 came with a decal on the swingarm that serve as a wear gauge... you start in the green zone and you wear into red zone... and red means warning a cautionary advice about something imminent... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spud786 Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 All three of my chain replacements had nothing to do with x or o rings rather the sprockets were worn and I was at the end of the adjustment capability. Not a sticking link in sight. So while your chain may last forever, your sprockets won't. PS. I lube every 1000km and full cleaning every 10,000km and get 45,000km typically on chain and sprocket set...O-ring btw. If your running a chain till it cant be adjusted, any longer, you went way too long, and running that chain that long is what destroyed the sprockets. cause a worn chain will ride high on the tips of the sprocket teetch and destroy them. Also steel sprockets offer 5 x wear over aluminum. Im at over 100,000 mile still on original rear sprocket, but several chains in this time frame. Three reasons for that,Heavy Lubrication film strength, virtually eliminating metal to metal contact of sprocket teeth, and replacing chains when they become out of spec, which has nothing to do with how much further they can be adjusted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer CharlesW Posted November 6, 2012 Author Member Contributer Share Posted November 6, 2012 Hey, it's getting much better than a tire thread. It's starting to read like an oil thread. For those that are having a problem finding O-ring chain, Motorcycle Super Store lists quite a few of them. If they have them available, chances are your local dealer would also be able to get them. I do a lot of research on-line, but I like to support my local dealer when it's time to buy. Just a little off-topic. (Hey, it's my thread) How do you actually determine when a chain is at the end of its life? I have used the pull away from the sprocket test since I don't really know a "right" way. That's where I try to pull the chain away from the rear sprocket at the 3:00 o'clock position. Pulls away, chain or sprockets are worn, doesn't pull away, probably still good. I have not needed to adjust my chain in the 27,000+ miles I have ridden the bike. Started at and still at about 1-3/8" slack per the manual. Rear sprocket doesn't have any hooks in it and doesn't show any wear, but chances are the only way to be sure would be to check it against a new sprocket. Wear on the rear sprocket is probably easy to see, but how many ever look at the front sprocket? I do plan to replace chain and sprockets together when I decide it's time. I ask all these questions not only because I am dense, but also because I have ridden shaft drive bikes since 1983. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer dirtbag Posted November 6, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted November 6, 2012 Hey, it's getting much better than a tire thread. It's starting to read like an oil thread. For those that are having a problem finding O-ring chain, Motorcycle Super Store lists quite a few of them. If they have them available, chances are your local dealer would also be able to get them. I do a lot of research on-line, but I like to support my local dealer when it's time to buy. Just a little off-topic. (Hey, it's my thread) How do you actually determine when a chain is at the end of its life? I have used the pull away from the sprocket test since I don't really know a "right" way. That's where I try to pull the chain away from the rear sprocket at the 3:00 o'clock position. Pulls away, chain or sprockets are worn, doesn't pull away, probably still good. I have not needed to adjust my chain in the 27,000+ miles I have ridden the bike. Started at and still at about 1-3/8" slack per the manual. Rear sprocket doesn't have any hooks in it and doesn't show any wear, but chances are the only way to be sure would be to check it against a new sprocket. Wear on the rear sprocket is probably easy to see, but how many ever look at the front sprocket? I do plan to replace chain and sprockets together when I decide it's time. I ask all these questions not only because I am dense, but also because I have ridden shaft drive bikes since 1983. you pretty much nailed the checking end of life for the chain. also, initial break in will require chain adjustment. you shouldnt really need to touch it. i find as soon as I start needing to adjust it again, it is on its way out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spud786 Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 If a chain has been adjusted 3 times, it is at spec limit or passed it, it doesnt take much stretch(pin wear) to be out of spec. The second way, is the lubrication dries up inside and red dust begins appearing, but they really go hand in hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer CharlesW Posted November 6, 2012 Author Member Contributer Share Posted November 6, 2012 Just an aside. I almost didn't buy the VFR because of my concern about the nuisance of taking care of a chain. Yeah, it's more work than the shafties, but spraying some chain lube every 300 to 500 miles hasn't been too bad. Takes longer to put down some newspaper to catch the overspray than it does to actually lube the chain. I use the DuPont Chain-Saver and occasionally really soak the chain and sprockets. That soaking is the extent of my chain cleaning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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