Member Contributer tbzep Posted July 22, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted July 22, 2012 I spooned a new PP/PR2 combo on the bike a couple weeks ago and did a quick shakedown/scrub session. The combo worked great. Unfortunately, due to work, family, weather, etc. today was the first day I've had a chance to do some real riding. I discovered a severe vibration/bouncing issue. It was minimal as I took off from a stop, increasing and maxing out around 30-40 mph, then subsiding again as speed increased. The vibration was so bad that it was uncomfortable to ride in town. Using the mirrors between 30-40 mph was impossible. I could lean over and see the tire bouncing as I went down main street. I didn't think I threw a weight because the vibration didn't resonate again at higher speeds. I got off and looked. Nope, the weights were still there. I then thought maybe balancing was the issue anyway and I just screwed up balancing it even though it's so simple a caveman could do it. Nope. I checked the balance when I got home and it was perfect, never stopping the same place twice. I didn't notice the vibration when I did the scrub in session because I went from zero to wahoo! in about 3 seconds and never slowed down until I parked the bike. So what is the problem? The tire is out of round by nearly 1/8". I'm going to do some investigating. I'm going to check and see if the wheel is true. If it is, I'll break the beads and reseat them. I guess it's remotely possible that they aren't seated perfectly, but I don't see any sign of that just by looking. If it is still out of round after reseating, I guess I'll need to call JakeWilson.com and see what they will do. If it's the wheel, I guess I'll have to start looking for a new one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer tbzep Posted July 22, 2012 Author Member Contributer Share Posted July 22, 2012 Update. I checked the wheel and it is true. It is nice and round and it has no side to side wobble. I broke the beads and spun the tire 180 degrees while I was at it because I had to use a ton of weight when I mounted it. I wish Michelin would mark their light spot like some of the other manufacturers. I lightly lubed the beads and seated them. It only took about 20 psi, so I aired it on up to 36 psi and spun it. It is now less than 1/16" out of round. I balanced the tire again and took it for a test run on several different sections of pavement to take the surface out of the equation. It still has some bounce between 30-40 mph, but it's not as bad. I can see stuff in the mirrors now. Anything above 45 mph is now silky smooth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer gll429 Posted July 23, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted July 23, 2012 your may be straight and true.. but its out of balance take it to a shop with an electric balancing machine.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer tbzep Posted July 23, 2012 Author Member Contributer Share Posted July 23, 2012 your may be straight and true.. but its out of balance take it to a shop with an electric balancing machine.. I've mounted and balanced every tire I've ever run on my VFR's and never had a balance problem. I use a Marc Parnes balancer, which is sensitive enough to show the change made by a small piece of tape. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer hondalover Posted July 23, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted July 23, 2012 I know it's rare, but I've expierenced the same thing. I do respect Greg's opinion, but in this case I think he is incorrect. I was lucky enough to have my expierence when I was a wrench at a dealership, and I had bought the tire through the dealership. Our supplier sent out a rep to observe the problem, and this was for a fairly inexpensive Bridgestone. I sure hope Jake Wilson takes care of this. And just FWIW, my wheel demensions were perfect, balance was perfect and performed on an electronic spin balancer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spud786 Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Tire would have to be severely out of balance to show up at speeds under 50mph , and Ive never seen those Miches out of round like that. Actually those miches I've found are near perfect balance in comparison to say Metzeler, but if your seeing out of true, and its the tire and not the rim, that speaks for itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer gll429 Posted July 23, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted July 23, 2012 the MP balancer is still a static balancer .. a dynamic one is ALWAYS better. i have tried getting a wheel to balance equally on both.. and NEVER had any luck. the fact is.. the wheel spins.. and the best kind of balancing will be dyna beads.. or a very similar product. HDs ..as you know are VERY shaky motors.. the best balanced engines have a grove cut into the flywheel and a mercury bladder epoxied in. it makes a MASSIVE difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer tbzep Posted July 23, 2012 Author Member Contributer Share Posted July 23, 2012 the MP balancer is still a static balancer .. a dynamic one is ALWAYS better. i have tried getting a wheel to balance equally on both.. and NEVER had any luck. the fact is.. the wheel spins.. and the best kind of balancing will be dyna beads.. or a very similar product. HDs ..as you know are VERY shaky motors.. the best balanced engines have a grove cut into the flywheel and a mercury bladder epoxied in. it makes a MASSIVE difference. I've never seen a bike balanced any closer than 1/4 oz from a dealership. Static balancing can get that close quite easily. I've already mentioned that I've never had a balancing issue before and I've done a bunch of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer gll429 Posted July 23, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted July 23, 2012 I've never seen a bike balanced any closer than 1/4 oz from a dealership. Static balancing can get that close quite easily. I've already mentioned that I've never had a balancing issue before and I've done a bunch of them. you are missing the point.. dynamic balance is more accurate even at 1/4 oz off.. due to the fact its measured on a SPINNING WHEEL! i have seen static wheel PERFECTLY balanced.. then i put that wheel on a electric balancer.. it will show the wheel is out of balance! EVERY TIME!!!!!!! and here is where it gets nuts.. ever have a perfect ride.. until you hit 95 mph? you get a bit of head shake.. but if you keep on the gas the shake goes away.. say 102mph... but if you stay on the gas the shake may come back.. 134.. then vanishes at 141 just pulling numbers out of my head there.. as it has happened to me on a few bikes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer tbzep Posted July 23, 2012 Author Member Contributer Share Posted July 23, 2012 I've never have had that happen on tires I've balanced. Dynamic machines are better because they also balance off axis. That's fine for cars, but we put our weights at the center line. Most shops doing car tires don't bother adding weights to both the inside and outside of the wheels, so that advantage goes out the window. I'm not arguing that the machine can't do a better job. I'm arguing that I've never, ever had this issue because static balancing has always been accurate enough to prevent it. My problem is an out of round tire. I was able to visually confirm before I even set up a rig to measure it. No amount of weight will solve that problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer gll429 Posted July 23, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted July 23, 2012 I've never have had that happen on tires I've balanced. Dynamic machines are better because they also balance off axis. That's fine for cars, but we put our weights at the center line. Most shops doing car tires don't bother adding weights to both the inside and outside of the wheels, so that advantage goes out the window. I'm not arguing that the machine can't do a better job. I'm arguing that I've never, ever had this issue because static balancing has always been accurate enough to prevent it. My problem is an out of round tire. I was able to visually confirm before I even set up a rig to measure it. No amount of weight will solve that problem. go to a cycle shop.. not a car shop.. and 2 move your tire rotate it 90* and see if it makes a difference. and last but not least. try some dyna beads. heck.. i had an out of balance wheel on my van after smaking a pot hole on 95.. i added water!! and it smoothed out real fast .. i did rebalance it when i got back to work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veefer800Canuck Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 Oddly enough, when I went to see the WSB/AMA races at Laguna seca, the Dunlop guys in the pits were all using static balancers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer gll429 Posted July 23, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted July 23, 2012 really? they may have been using beads.. fast by ferrachi and honda use the machines.. oh well.. to each his own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veefer800Canuck Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 This was the Dunlop trailer that officially supplied the AMA teams. I think WSB was still using Michelins back then??? It was years ago, but all MC dealers at the time had dynamic balances in their shops, so I thought it odd that Dunlop would be using static balancers at the racetrack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted July 23, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted July 23, 2012 your may be straight and true.. but its out of balance take it to a shop with an electric balancing machine.. I've mounted and balanced every tire I've ever run on my VFR's and never had a balance problem. I use a Marc Parnes balancer, which is sensitive enough to show the change made by a small piece of tape. +1 thats what i use but I have had tires that have two heavy spots on the tire. So the only way to balance them are with a electronic balancer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tamworth Posted July 23, 2012 Share Posted July 23, 2012 It has nothing to do with balance, certainly not at those low speeds.This is a defective tire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike884 Posted October 9, 2012 Share Posted October 9, 2012 I also have a PP front that the previous owner put on right before I got the bike. At 75+ the bike would bob up and down like it had mud on a tire. Took it in for a balancing and sure as heck the rim was true, bearings were fine, but you could definitely see that the tire was "humped" and out of round. My shop did a re-balance for me and the bobbing has gotten better, but its still there, albeit less so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Polarbear Posted October 9, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted October 9, 2012 I also have a PP front that the previous owner put on right before I got the bike. At 75+ the bike would bob up and down like it had mud on a tire. Took it in for a balancing and sure as heck the rim was true, bearings were fine, but you could definitely see that the tire was "humped" and out of round. My shop did a re-balance for me and the bobbing has gotten better, but its still there, albeit less so. Wouldn't this be a defective tire? And wouldn't Michelin warranty it if it is a manufacturer's fault? Just saying, never happened to me, but they do sell them with warranties, right? c Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer MBrane Posted October 10, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted October 10, 2012 If the tire is "out of round" enough to cause problems you should be able to see it on the balancer. There's no such thing as a perfectly round tire, but if you can eyeball it it's clearly defective. I've had mixed results with PPs on the static balancer. Most are pretty good, but occasionally I'll get one that requires rotating or rebalancing. Haven't had one yet that I could eyeball as "out of round". As a result I haven't bothered to bust out the dial indicator when installing tires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spud786 Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 Ive ran dosens of that set up never seen any balance issue or out of round, dynamic machines suck post 100mph imo, compared to a static balance, but being your seeing 30 and 40 mph issue, Thats usually not a balance problem, or it would have to be really severe, I guess the chinesse just screwed up that tire ,if its out of round. Their front tires are normally from spain, atleast the good ones, but all the rears Ive gotten lately have been from thiland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 10, 2012 Share Posted October 10, 2012 I had a brand new Battlax 023 that was defective - felt like the wheel was bent . Got it replaced with a new Pilot 2- absolutely perfect now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer dutchinterceptor Posted October 11, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted October 11, 2012 After 200+ tire changes using a marc parnes balancer I've never had a balance issue especially with michelin. Most balance with zero weights. I'd request a replacement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer tbzep Posted October 12, 2012 Author Member Contributer Share Posted October 12, 2012 Guys, I started this thread back in July. It was really just a public service announcement, not a request to be told I can't balance a tire. No matter what the internet experts said about balance, the problem was that the tire was out of round. I could see it with my own eyeballs. Let's just let the thread die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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