spud786 Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 I cant find where you really like the bike, Must just be Lust over the Looks I guess. I am sorry to hear you've come to this conclusion so early after purchasing(thats a pure Horror for the money), but I agree your stuck for a couple years to get close to break even, and maybe not even then. Which begs the Question, which VFR 1200's will hold their value better and be easier for resale, DUC or standard? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TiN Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 I am in the market for a bike and lurk in a lot of forums. Each bike specific site circle jerks and defends their bike's weaknesses. But I have to say, this one has to be on top of the list of bikes with unhappy owners. And if not unhappy, less than thrilled with their purchase. I would say honest over unhappy. In the forum for the last motorcycle I owned it was a giant circle jerk of how awesome their bikes were. Faster than a Busa on the strip, handled better then a S1KRR in the curves, toured better than a Goldwing, etc. Anybody who questioned otherwise got insta-flamed. I really like that this place has a more critical viewpoint. All bikes have good and bad. Its nice to know what the bad is along with the good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZesPak Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 Which begs the Question, which VFR 1200's will hold their value better and be easier for resale, DUC or standard? Hmm, that's a good question! I think it'll come down to reliability. if the DCT doesn't prove itself prone to expensive repairs in the first 50k miles, I think it'll hold it's value pretty wel as it's a real USP compared to other bikes. Also, if you look at the secondhand market now, non-red bikes seem to go a bit higher in price due to being rather rare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum CEO HispanicSlammer Posted June 18, 2012 Forum CEO Share Posted June 18, 2012 Then again those of us who got the first year model dont have the upgrades the 2013 has, TCS Traction Control, extra liter of tank fuel capacity, more torque from an improved cam. Its a slightly better bike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Dutchy Posted June 18, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted June 18, 2012 Just as with bikes, there is no perfect wife either But mine comes pretty close!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 Pretty much EVERY 1st. gen. anything has its problems & Seriously, the 1200 is a 1st gen. Bike. The V45 / VF750F was & is a piece of junk to many, & it took honda a few years to sort it out to become the Bike most of you love today! That said if you buy a first gen,anything, then you have to deal with the possible or inevitable problems that come of it! RIDE SAFE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
interceptorrider Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 I've made no secret of my man love for this bike (now that I have a few farkley's to smooth it's few rough edges). I love it. I does suck in stop and go traffic though. For the kind of riding I do, it's perfect. However, if I had to do a lot of stop and go traffic on my commute, I would prefer something lighter and with a lighter clucth pull. I had a Buell XB9s that was good for that (except the clutch pull). Someone mentioned the auto-trans would be better. I agree wtih that. If I owned a Kawasaki, Suzuki, or Yamaha similar to the big VFR, I would likely have the same complaint. My '07 RWB VFR800 wasn't any better in slow traffic. I think it is a syptom of the bigger boned breed. Ride safe. Mark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZesPak Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 Well, I didn't have 100 bikes in my life just yet. But I needed something to commute on everyday. I only have space for one bike, so it had to be comfortable, sporty and fast. The VFR fits the bill for me. Sure, more mileage would be great on just about anything. But, I have the 2012 with new mapping and none of the 1&2nd gear problems. It has traction control, which already kicked in one time when riding over a zebra crossing in the wet, brilliant brakes which is superb when commuting and filtering/white lining, good seat with plenty of passenger room, it turns heads wherever I go (It's still very rare here). On top of that, when I'm going home, it begs me to take the long route. Commuting might be tedious for most, but I love it thanks to my "ICBM". It is, for me, neigh-on perfect. So in short: Expensive? depends on what you want to pay for, tell anybody who bought a MacBook that he paid too much for his laptop and he'll tell you the same Power dip in 1st & 2nd? As far as I can tell - completely absent on 2012 "Snatchiness" at low speeds? I'm a pretty new rider and have no problems with my VFR and I ride in town a lot, so maybe bike specific or also changed in 2012? Range? True, but the bike almost touches 300km here, and I find that more than adequate for any riding. I would imagine it being a "problem" in areas with fewer petrol stations though... But, your two biggest concerns were the power dip and snatchiness, otherwise you love it? Maybe you can hear for a swap to the 2012, may cost some extra money but probably worth it for you if it bothers you that much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briandor Posted June 18, 2012 Share Posted June 18, 2012 Then again those of us who got the first year model dont have the upgrades the 2013 has, TCS Traction Control, extra liter of tank fuel capacity, more torque from an improved cam. Its a slightly better bike. I think you meant .1 gallons more tank capacity. To me that isn't even worth mentioning but Honda did it anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enzed_viffer Posted June 19, 2012 Share Posted June 19, 2012 Seems this thread just proves that FIFTH-GENs are the best. As if there was any doubt. Especially if they are RED. Red? <snortl> How common... I have had no problems with rideability since I disabled the O2 sensors and took the slack out of the throttle cable. I ride it everyday in and around traffic, I've done three-day trips on it, gravel roads, all sorts of conditions, no problems. Probably why I haven't even test ridden another bike (even friends' bikes) in the last nearly 8 years... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volfy Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 If you thought VFR1200 is bad for stop and go traffic, imagine one with even bigger engine and 100 lbs heavier. I regularly commute with a C14 and have no problem with it. I'm actually looking to the VFR1200 as my weekend funster and backup bike. I test rode the VFR1200 and thought it handled remarkably well. It is still a big open-class cruise missle of a bike and no match for a lightweight litre bike for agility, but these days I prefer comfort and shaft drive. I've been looking at the 7th gen for quite a while now and am stilling playing the waiting game with my local dealers, two of them still have the same '10 VFR1200 on their floor for as long as i care to remember. So far, they won't drop their price enough for me to pull the trigger. We'll see who blinks first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Headhunter Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 VFR 1200 is not a "town bike". Hence the name "Sport Tourer". She's made to eat up the interstate or your favorite two laner at triple digits with butter smoothness. Don't be breaking her chops too bad. Sounds as if you just chose the wrong type of bike for your style of riding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Headhunter Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 If you thought VFR1200 is bad for stop and go traffic, imagine one with even bigger engine and 100 lbs heavier. I regularly commute with a C14 and have no problem with it. I'm actually looking to the VFR1200 as my weekend funster and backup bike. I test rode the VFR1200 and thought it handled remarkably well. It is still a big open-class cruise missle of a bike and no match for a lightweight litre bike for agility, but these days I prefer comfort and shaft drive. I've been looking at the 7th gen for quite a while now and am stilling playing the waiting game with my local dealers, two of them still have the same '10 VFR1200 on their floor for as long as i care to remember. So far, they won't drop their price enough for me to pull the trigger. We'll see who blinks first. Do it!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hvrnaut Posted June 20, 2012 Author Share Posted June 20, 2012 I've really been appreciative of the many comments that this thread stirred up. I never for a second thought that an early evening "bitch session" would spark so much interest. While it's true I am a bit disappointed in the things I mentioned in my original post, here's where this bike is for me; I'm going to keep it, customize it to my liking, and ride the hell out of it. There are a ton of great tidbits of advice in the previous thirty-plus posts, and on other parts of this forum. As I stated right off, I do like this bike. I enjoy having it in my stable. Problem is, my stable is too few! To help with some of the "issues" I have with the bike, I'm going to add another bike very soon. I am thinking of a middleweight naked, FZ8, Street Triple, Monster 796, you know the type. I figure that when all is said and done, the true test will be which bike I "reach for" first! As some of you have pointed out, different bikes for different types of riding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volfy Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 If I have my ways, my 3-car garage will be filled with 2-wheel toys of every kind. Thankfully, I have a CFO at home with a firm foot on the brakes. I started looking at the VFR1200 back when Ebay was full of them. Now they've dwindled down next to nill. In the meantime, I wentt hrough several bikes already, and the VFR is still at the very top of my list. Right now, there are a couple of barely used '10 VFRs I am keeping an eye on as well. I just know eventually there will be one in my stable, but trying to see how low I can get it for has become an obsession! 7th gen may not be a jack of all trades, but it is definitely a master of some. Even though John Belushi slicing sushi with a Samurai sword looks funny, that blade still does a might good job at doing what it really wan't intended to do. Before you judge these big sport tourers to be ill-suited as "town bikes", take a look at what some folks with the right stuff can do: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 I fully understand your frustration with buying an expensive Honda and thinking you should not have to modify it to work acceptably (like any other modern bike out there). I put on a PCV after talking with the Honda rep and my local dealer and letting them know I thought the bike was crap in the first two gears as sold. I spent the money, did the install and now I am okay with it around town. And I really do like the power the engine produces when you spin it up. I'm pretty sure this is the hardest accelerating bike I have ever owned when coming out of a turn in third gear. It's not for new riders and that's okay. The only other thing that amazes me is how bad the fuel mileage is. When commuting, my C14 regularly gets 40mpg, so did my 98' K12rs, and my R1 does around 47. The VFR12 never does better than 38 for me and if I am playing hard on it, much worse can be expected. First, let me start by saying that I really do like this bike. The thing is, I am finding out that it is not the best "all around" motorcycle for me. I realize it is a great tourer. This, I think it does well, although the short range is an issue for some I realize. The issue for me is that I ride three to four hours at a time, most days, purely recreationally. Once out in the back-country, it is wonderful. Great on the highway, too. Fun as hell to wind up, and power for days. Around town, it's a pain in the ass. The 1st and 2nd gear power "hole". Terrible. I installed the Z-bomb. Lost the gear indicator. I know, so what, right? Well, it's bullsh*t on a bike of this class (and price). Same thing can be said for the "snatchness" in the first two gears. It is terrible to deal with, and makes riding around the city with my son unpleasant for me, while he's doing great on his Ninja 650. Makes me look, and feel like a new rider. I'm not. I've thought about the PC or the Bazzaz Fi, etc. Why the hell do I have to keep spending money to fix the most basic of things? If I wanted an aftermarket exhaust, or different grips, etc, then that's an individual thing. To have the bike run like it's supposed to? I would expect that from any manufacturer. Overall, I bought into all the great traits of the bike. Power, looks, shaft drive, abs, the list goes on. I shied away from the BMW I've wanted for so long.The hell with the 1300, At this point, I think I'd be happier on their 800ST, or a long list of bikes from other brands. I did not expect to be "dreaming" about trading this bike for another so soon after purchasing it. While I bought it right, I'd get killed on a trade at the dealership. Private sale may be the answer. After only 2500 miles on this thing, I'm just a bit pissed. Bitching a bit, I fully realize. Thanks for the chance to blow off some steam! The wife's tired of hearing about it! Lol! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briandor Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 I fully understand your frustration with buying an expensive Honda and thinking you should not have to modify it to work acceptably (like any other modern bike out there). I put on a PCV after talking with the Honda rep and my local dealer and letting them know I thought the bike was crap in the first two gears as sold. I spent the money, did the install and now I am okay with it around town. And I really do like the power the engine produces when you spin it up. I'm pretty sure this is the hardest accelerating bike I have ever owned when coming out of a turn in third gear. It's not for new riders and that's okay. The only other thing that amazes me is how bad the fuel mileage is. When commuting, my C14 regularly gets 40mpg, so did my 98' K12rs, and my R1 does around 47. The VFR12 never does better than 38 for me and if I am playing hard on it, much worse can be expected. Interesting that you only get 38 mpg on the VFR. I regularly get 44 on mine commuting back and forth to work. My commute is about 60 miles each way with about 40 of those miles being at 75-80 on the turnpike. I have the DCT and almost always ride it in D mode so that probably helps. I haven't done any modding on mine yet but I did just get the JuiceBox Pro to put on it for the snatchy throttle down low. Guess I'll find out if my mileage suffers any after the install. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 I think the best advice I received is to definitely appreciate what this machine does really well, and not to dwell on the small things. I agree with the advice, but it is the fact that so many of the issues are just small things that makes it so frustrating. For a first gen, Honda made a really good bike--so good that it is perplexing why they didn't do just a tiny bit more to make it an incredible bike. My major complaints are software-related. Software that they went way out of their way to prevent us from tweaking. The throttle-based adaptation of the DCT shift pattern is just plain dumb. "Oh, I see that you are holding the throttle wide open. You probably want me to downshift and hold a higher RPM before upshifting, but I really don't feel like doing either at the moment. I'll make you deal, the next time you want to do this, I'll do what you want, but only if you don't wait too long before trying again.", says the stupid DCT shift logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
briandor Posted June 22, 2012 Share Posted June 22, 2012 I think the best advice I received is to definitely appreciate what this machine does really well, and not to dwell on the small things. I agree with the advice, but it is the fact that so many of the issues are just small things that makes it so frustrating. For a first gen, Honda made a really good bike--so good that it is perplexing why they didn't do just a tiny bit more to make it an incredible bike. My major complaints are software-related. Software that they went way out of their way to prevent us from tweaking. The throttle-based adaptation of the DCT shift pattern is just plain dumb. "Oh, I see that you are holding the throttle wide open. You probably want me to downshift and hold a higher RPM before upshifting, but I really don't feel like doing either at the moment. I'll make you deal, the next time you want to do this, I'll do what you want, but only if you don't wait too long before trying again.", says the stupid DCT shift logic. And even worse that they've apparently done some updates to address these issues but won't release the update to us in the states. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Dutchy Posted June 22, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted June 22, 2012 Maybe, just maybe Honda knows that releasing software updates will -under US law- constitute admitting something that will then open the door to lawsuits. Like the guy with the long term wood suing BMW..... Rather than thankfull customers...... Dunno....... Has anyone dropped a mail to Honda USA and asked for a reaction/explanation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auron Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 Wow, I'm surprised to see negative talk about the DCT, all the mags said it's flawless. Not that you should ever trust them. Any word on the mileage better on the '12's? Honda says it's better but they also said it has a bigger fuel tank lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 Wow, I'm surprised to see negative talk about the DCT, all the mags said it's flawless. Not that you should ever trust them. I really like my DCT. I commute on it almost daily and it great in stop and go freeway traffic. On my 6th gen, the hydraulic clutch would kill my wore-out programmer hands. I'm just saying that the automatic shifting when you want it to be aggressive is insufficient. Sport mode is okay, but for me, it isn't easy to reach for the button while using the throttle, and sport mode just revs too much to use it all the time (at least for me.) Generally I just use the manual buttons if I want to accelerate quickly, but I have to plan ahead because they don't let me shift down three gears as quickly as I'd like. The shifts themselves are fast, but if you push the button too fast, it just ignores you. I also own a 2008 VW R32 with a DCT. That will shift as fast as you can hit the button, but VW has had many years to refine that technology. I think they went ultra conservative with the shift logic because they lacked transaction control. If I barely speed up enough to get it to shift into 6th and then twist WOT, it won't drop below 4th. If a car is switching into my lane, I'm dead in that case. So they have weird limits like that in the program to limit the acceleration, and prevent surprises. As I said before, it is the adaptive shifting logic that they completely messed up. They've modeled it with some sort of aggressiveness factor that builds when you're on the throttle heavy and then decays as your on the throttle lightly. In short, this means the logic is never doing what you want. You want to go fast? If that factor hasn't built up sufficiently, the bike isn't going to shift the way you want to. You just passed that 18-wheeler and you want to settle back into cruising? It is going to take 5-10 seconds for that factor to decay and shift back to 6th. On the plus side, the low-speed handling is very smooth and inspires a lot of confidence. Only once have I almost dropped it due to loss of power while leaned slightly, and I've adjusted my throttle cable since and have had zero issues. I also really like that the available power isn't going to eat me alive if I make a mistake with the clutch. I know, I "shouldn't" make a mistake with the clutch, but there were a few times on my 6th gen that I slipped it on accident and "surprised" myself a little too much. Really, my only regret is that I traded in the 6th gen. I had 15k miles on it, and traded it for $4,500 towards my 7th gen. Looking back, I should have just kept it and had both. Then I would have had the best of both worlds. Both bikes have been fabulous, but satisfied different desires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Dutchy Posted June 23, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted June 23, 2012 Well, I rode the DCT when it came out and found NO gripes with it, other than than I prefer to operate a motorcycle the traditional way. The D position too tame for me, but the S is perfect. Honda caters for all sorts... Great bike! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auron Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 Interesting. I have hating shifting my bikes for the past ten years, but after reading Inelson's post, I don't think I could live without being in the exact gear I want exactly when I want it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Dutchy Posted June 23, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted June 23, 2012 With the DCT you can, just use the Manual mode, the shift-up shift-down buttons are well placed on the left... That is how I could work out how fast she would go in 1st and 2nd gear Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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