Member Contributer RollinAgain Posted November 22, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted November 22, 2011 I'm getting ready to install some new Pilot Power 2 CT tires and was wondering do these tires have a marking to indicate the lightest spot on the tire that should alighn with the stem? Each tire does have a little tiny yellow marking that looks like a bar code. Is this the light spot on the tire or should I not worry about it and just mount it and balance normally? Rollin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer ron_al Posted November 22, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted November 22, 2011 A friend of mine told me that Michelin does not mark a "balance dot" on their tires. (He pointed this out to me again, while he mounted & balanced another set of Michelins for me.) HTH, Ron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rice Posted November 22, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted November 22, 2011 Yep. No dots on Michelins. They are balanced pretty well from the factory. All you do is correct balance of the rim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer dutchinterceptor Posted November 22, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted November 22, 2011 Mount, balance normally. In my experience the dots are pointless. Plus the valve stem is rarely the heavy spot on a rim. Check the balance on your rim before you mount the tire to know for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer RollinAgain Posted November 22, 2011 Author Member Contributer Share Posted November 22, 2011 Thank you gents. I will be putting my new Cycle Hill changer and Marc Parnes balancer through the paces tomorrow. Rollin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 I'll be the different one here. With Michelin's line up the UPC code on the bead with the valve stem. The spot actually does matter. Maybe not if you are using a manual static balancer. A computer balancer will be hyper accurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OliverTwisted Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 That cleared the confusion right up. I guess you guys will have to agree to disagree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Earthshake Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 For what it's worth, I tried lining up the UPC code with the valve stem on my last PR2 tire change. It's the first time that I tried this approach and it resulted in the least amount of balancing weight I have ever had to use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baileyrock Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 For what it's worth, I tried lining up the UPC code with the valve stem on my last PR2 tire change. It's the first time that I tried this approach and it resulted in the least amount of balancing weight I have ever had to use. Me too, Michelins are usually very well made to start with and need little weight most of the time. I use teh same UPC code at the stem method! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer IntAceptor Posted November 22, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted November 22, 2011 I have a buddy who was a VP at Goodyear and now makes monster tires for super hauler trucks. This boy knows tires. Well in conversation, he told me of stuff I never heard of before in tire manufacturing and the forces that they have to contend with. Below is a link to an article that sums up a good portion of the conversation and can or may shed new light on tire balancing and mounting. I have also found through experience that the stem on a wheel is not necessarily the heavy spot. That seems to be a left over from tube tires where the tube itself had a double or triple layer of rubber at the stem and the stem itself added a lot of weight to the tire at that point. Balance a wheel without the tire at the next tire change and see for yourselves if it is heavy at the valve opening or not. Here is the link http://www.motor.com/article.asp?article_ID=1304 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 22, 2011 Share Posted November 22, 2011 Here is a video I did showing a balanced VFR wheel and a Michelin Pilot Power. Usually, with a balanced wheel a Michelin will not need weight or maybe a .25oz. I have been testing this theory with random bikes for the last year. Other brands; Avon, dunslop, and Pirelli take more weight. Avons being the worst with more than 1 oz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer 2thdr Posted November 22, 2011 Member Contributer Share Posted November 22, 2011 I have a buddy who was a VP at Goodyear and now makes monster tires for super hauler trucks. This boy knows tires. Well in conversation, he told me of stuff I never heard of before in tire manufacturing and the forces that they have to contend with. Below is a link to an article that sums up a good portion of the conversation and can or may shed new light on tire balancing and mounting. I have also found through experience that the stem on a wheel is not necessarily the heavy spot. That seems to be a left over from tube tires where the tube itself had a double or triple layer of rubber at the stem and the stem itself added a lot of weight to the tire at that point. Balance a wheel without the tire at the next tire change and see for yourselves if it is heavy at the valve opening or not. Here is the link http://www.motor.com...article_ID=1304 Interesting read...thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spud786 Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 For what it's worth, I tried lining up the UPC code with the valve stem on my last PR2 tire change. It's the first time that I tried this approach and it resulted in the least amount of balancing weight I have ever had to use. I tried that, I found it not to be worth a Chit! In other words UPc code means Squat, a figment of someones imagination. Im of the position the tires are near zero balanced to begin with off the manufacturing line as stated, other wise they use a DOT, like other manufactures who do. I should add, the dot(light spot of tire), is to be lined up heaviest part of the rim, and just aligning it with valve stem without knowing thats the heavy part of rim, serves no purpose. The majority of tires Ive replaced , the weight always go in the same area of the rim, so I know my rim is not well balanced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V4 Rosso Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Here is a video I did showing a balanced VFR wheel and a Michelin Pilot Power. Interesting What amount of weight do you typically have to use to get a wheel (without tire) balanced? I have SP1 wheel, and when I hold it by the axle and spin it, I can feel the wheel is out of balance and wondered if this is normal or not. IntAceptor: you too, thanks for the link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 I static balance the wheel on the machine and it usually takes a half ounce. That wheel took and ounce, but the steel valve stem added to the weight. Then with the tire on, I computer balance it. Computer balancing is much more accurate than static mainly because it tells you where on the right or left edge of the wheel to place the weight. Static only balances out the heavy spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NakedViffer Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Yeah, I've balanced a few Michelin's by just clocking the tire on the rim with no weights at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spud786 Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Ive never been able to get a high speed balance with a computer balancer on a motorcycle tire, and Ive used different shops, they all balance the same way, Static balancing I find is far better on a motorcycle. The Computer balancers seem to get the weight in the right place , just incorrect amount, and then I have post tripple out of balance issues. Computer balancers seem to be accurate up to highway speeds. I spent a good 20 milutes atleast, on a balance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Most/ all shops use Static balance on a computer balancer. The way to tell is if your wheel has one place on the wheel where there is weight that is static. If there are three or four different places on the wheel with weight, that is computer. It is perfect at every speed. Usually it makes a difference on the front. I use static balance if someone brings me a sh!t tire like Avon where I know the first spin of the balancer calls for 3 ounces. Then I just static balance it and it will usually take 1.50 ounces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spud786 Posted November 24, 2011 Share Posted November 24, 2011 Most/ all shops use Static balance on a computer balancer. The way to tell is if your wheel has one place on the wheel where there is weight that is static. If there are three or four different places on the wheel with weight, that is computer. It is perfect at every speed. Usually it makes a difference on the front. I use static balance if someone brings me a sh!t tire like Avon where I know the first spin of the balancer calls for 3 ounces. Then I just static balance it and it will usually take 1.50 ounces. They only put weight in one area, so I guess its static, but I stopped letting shops balance my tires, cause it was always messed up once I got up past 90mph. I also tried a different shops to see if it was just the particular mechanic or machine, but the result was always the same, and this through various tires. At that point I knew if I wanted it right , I had to do myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 That is always the best policy. As for the shops, you have to remember that they need to make a profit. There for a static balance on a machine is the quickest way to balance a tire and get that wheel back on the bike and out the door so they can get on to the next customer. Even at 30.00 per wheel, there is not enough profit in mounting and balancing tires for it to be cost effective at a motorcycle shop. I figure it takes easily one hour to mount and balance both tires on a bike. Sure some guys here will argue and I will agree a VFR can be done in 30 minutes... But an R1 or a GSXR is a bit more difficult. And don't get me started on an HD Road King. I can understand that some shops may cut corners and not do the job 100%. I personally, when I balance a wheel and it calls for more than an ounce, I will break the bead and rotate the tire 180* on the wheel and rebalance. I have seen shops just throw on 1.50 -3.0 ounces on the wheel and call it good. It is not a fair practice but there are a lot of riders who will never know the difference. Fortunately, I am not a business and I am happy to mount and balance for 10.00. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spud786 Posted November 25, 2011 Share Posted November 25, 2011 That is always the best policy. As for the shops, you have to remember that they need to make a profit. There for a static balance on a machine is the quickest way to balance a tire and get that wheel back on the bike and out the door so they can get on to the next customer. Even at 30.00 per wheel, there is not enough profit in mounting and balancing tires for it to be cost effective at a motorcycle shop. I figure it takes easily one hour to mount and balance both tires on a bike. Sure some guys here will argue and I will agree a VFR can be done in 30 minutes... But an R1 or a GSXR is a bit more difficult. And don't get me started on an HD Road King. I can understand that some shops may cut corners and not do the job 100%. I personally, when I balance a wheel and it calls for more than an ounce, I will break the bead and rotate the tire 180* on the wheel and rebalance. I have seen shops just throw on 1.50 -3.0 ounces on the wheel and call it good. It is not a fair practice but there are a lot of riders who will never know the difference. Fortunately, I am not a business and I am happy to mount and balance for 10.00. I always carried the wheel(s) in(normally one at a time), so the 25/30 dollars was for wheel only. IMO its worth that amount of money, I know when I change tires, its atleast worth that in my time and effort. You can get a car tire removed and internally repaired for about $35, that seems like a good price. $10 is a steal IMO, It would not be worth my effort to do my own if I could get someone to mount for ten dollars, and they wouldnt even have to balance them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V4 Rosso Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 I static balance the wheel on the machine and it usually takes a half ounce. That wheel took and ounce, but the steel valve stem added to the weight. I put a front wheel (without tire) on the balancer and it needs 40g (1 and 7/16 ounce) to get it staticaly balanced All the old markings of where the weights have been stuck on the rim are in that same spot. What do you use to balance the bare wheel, regular stick on weights? As the light spot is at the end of one of the wheel spokes I thought about putting some weight on the inside of the spoke so it is mostly out of sight. Even nicer would be to stick the weight on the outer circumference of the rim, in the drop center between the bead seats, but I am not sure if it will stick when the wheel is rotating at high rpm. My rear eight spoker has always needed quit a lot of weight to get it balanced (>2 ounce), no matter what brand tire it had on. I guess staticaly balancing the rim will make a big difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 I use stick on weight for a bare wheel, usually White or Red in the center of the wheel. This way they don't get confused with the gray ones at the edges. If it is that far off, how is the weight placement in relation to the position of the valve stem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V4 Rosso Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 If it is that far off, how is the weight placement in relation to the position of the valve stem? About a third along the circumference. I have a light weight (8g) angled valve stem installed. I also checked the roundness of the wheel using a dial gauge and it's near perfect. It is a SP1 front wheel, no dents, nothing. I didn't expect it neede this much weight to get it balanced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 16, 2011 Share Posted December 16, 2011 Too bad you can't dremmel some of the inside of the wheel away... I would be afraid that the wheel would crack while hitting a bump, if I did it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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