Guest Posted September 30, 2010 Share Posted September 30, 2010 I've been in contact with DynoJet as well, offered them my bike for R&D if needed... Sorry guys; with my first post in here, I've got to inform you all that the coveted appointment with Powercommander would be me. :cool: I have a confirmed appointment for October 8th to drop it off. I contacted them back in March before it went off to Corbin for a lengthly stay. Honda wouldn't release the rights to their plug, so Dynojet will have to dig deeper into the harness near the injectors to access the system. I have to bring them the original muffler along with the bike for a week's stay in Las Vegas. After that, It goes to K&N. They are building air filters for our beasts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutchgixxer Posted September 30, 2010 Author Share Posted September 30, 2010 I've been in contact with DynoJet as well, offered them my bike for R&D if needed... Sorry guys; with my first post in here, I've got to inform you all that the coveted appointment with Powercommander would be me. :cool: I have a confirmed appointment for October 8th to drop it off. I contacted them back in March before it went off to Corbin for a lengthly stay. Honda wouldn't release the rights to their plug, so Dynojet will have to dig deeper into the harness near the injectors to access the system. I have to bring them the original muffler along with the bike for a week's stay in Las Vegas. After that, It goes to K&N. They are building air filters for our beasts. Please keep us posted. Thanks in advance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 30, 2010 Share Posted September 30, 2010 Ask Dynojet if they can enable throttle position mapping Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 30, 2010 Share Posted September 30, 2010 This will be my first bike with a Powercommander, so if you guys have suggestions for them, let me know now (like the throttle position mapping). I'm primarily an old-school carburetor person.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutchgixxer Posted October 1, 2010 Author Share Posted October 1, 2010 This will be my first bike with a Powercommander, so if you guys have suggestions for them, let me know now (like the throttle position mapping). I'm primarily an old-school carburetor person.. Please ask them to get rid of the speed limitation in 6th gear and power limititation in 1st and 2nd gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zRoYz Posted October 2, 2010 Share Posted October 2, 2010 Just a question that someone might know the answer too, have they speed limited the VFR1200 more for a safety reason for the drive shaft. I know there are cages speed limited for this reason. This bike bugs the shit out of me mainly because I want one but there are so many unknowns that are stopping me buying one. Unfortunately a test ride from a dealer doesn't answer my questions, like the limitation on power 1st & 2nd gear & how that might effect me & if those limitations can be removed if I do find it limiting, buy fitting a power commander or some other way. I have a problem that until I own a bike I can't ride it in anger which is why test rides tell me nothing, tight corners are my passion & there is nothing better that on exit using a fist full of throttle & using every bit of tyre grip available. I don't fit touring tyres I fit sports tyres as wear doesn't bother me, it's the price I pay for the buzz factor. For example my CBR1000RR is lighter & has 170hp on tap all the time so with a heavier bike with less hp being limited in 2nd which is a gear I would use allot in tight corners puzzles me the effect it would have. Anybody that owns a VFR1200 & has come off a gen 5/6 feel the VFR1200 has less drive out of corners in 2nd or more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 2, 2010 Share Posted October 2, 2010 The third gear roll on out of a corner on this bike is fantastic. Better than any other bike I have owned or ridden in that respect. Just a question that someone might know the answer too, have they speed limited the VFR1200 more for a safety reason for the drive shaft. I know there are cages speed limited for this reason. This bike bugs the shit out of me mainly because I want one but there are so many unknowns that are stopping me buying one. Unfortunately a test ride from a dealer doesn't answer my questions, like the limitation on power 1st & 2nd gear & how that might effect me & if those limitations can be removed if I do find it limiting, buy fitting a power commander or some other way. I have a problem that until I own a bike I can't ride it in anger which is why test rides tell me nothing, tight corners are my passion & there is nothing better that on exit using a fist full of throttle & using every bit of tyre grip available. I don't fit touring tyres I fit sports tyres as wear doesn't bother me, it's the price I pay for the buzz factor. For example my CBR1000RR is lighter & has 170hp on tap all the time so with a heavier bike with less hp being limited in 2nd which is a gear I would use allot in tight corners puzzles me the effect it would have. Anybody that owns a VFR1200 & has come off a gen 5/6 feel the VFR1200 has less drive out of corners in 2nd or more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 3, 2010 Share Posted October 3, 2010 Just a question that someone might know the answer too, have they speed limited the VFR1200 more for a safety reason for the drive shaft. I know there are cages speed limited for this reason. This bike bugs the shit out of me mainly because I want one but there are so many unknowns that are stopping me buying one. Unfortunately a test ride from a dealer doesn't answer my questions, like the limitation on power 1st & 2nd gear & how that might effect me & if those limitations can be removed if I do find it limiting, buy fitting a power commander or some other way. I have a problem that until I own a bike I can't ride it in anger which is why test rides tell me nothing, tight corners are my passion & there is nothing better that on exit using a fist full of throttle & using every bit of tyre grip available. I don't fit touring tyres I fit sports tyres as wear doesn't bother me, it's the price I pay for the buzz factor. For example my CBR1000RR is lighter & has 170hp on tap all the time so with a heavier bike with less hp being limited in 2nd which is a gear I would use allot in tight corners puzzles me the effect it would have. Anybody that owns a VFR1200 & has come off a gen 5/6 feel the VFR1200 has less drive out of corners in 2nd or more. Even with the restriction, the VFR still has more torque at 4000RPM than the CBR1000 does at peak. ;) And at 6000RPM it's got about a 20hp advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Solomoto Posted October 3, 2010 Member Contributer Share Posted October 3, 2010 Just a question that someone might know the answer too, have they speed limited the VFR1200 more for a safety reason for the drive shaft. I know there are cages speed limited for this reason. This bike bugs the shit out of me mainly because I want one but there are so many unknowns that are stopping me buying one. Unfortunately a test ride from a dealer doesn't answer my questions, like the limitation on power 1st & 2nd gear & how that might effect me & if those limitations can be removed if I do find it limiting, buy fitting a power commander or some other way. I have a problem that until I own a bike I can't ride it in anger which is why test rides tell me nothing, tight corners are my passion & there is nothing better that on exit using a fist full of throttle & using every bit of tyre grip available. I don't fit touring tyres I fit sports tyres as wear doesn't bother me, it's the price I pay for the buzz factor. For example my CBR1000RR is lighter & has 170hp on tap all the time so with a heavier bike with less hp being limited in 2nd which is a gear I would use allot in tight corners puzzles me the effect it would have. Anybody that owns a VFR1200 & has come off a gen 5/6 feel the VFR1200 has less drive out of corners in 2nd or more. I would say based on your description of your riding style that the VFR1200 is probably not the bike for you. While sporty and very competent, it can't compete with the balls out hp of a supersport liter bike, nor match it's ultimate handling due to it's weight. If your expectation is that it be like a CBR1000R in the twisties, you will be sorely disappointed. You already have the weapon of choice for your riding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 3, 2010 Share Posted October 3, 2010 Anybody that owns a VFR1200 & has come off a gen 5/6 feel the VFR1200 has less drive out of corners in 2nd or more. <<utter and absolute horseshit. sorry, just calling a spade a spade! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zRoYz Posted October 3, 2010 Share Posted October 3, 2010 Anybody that owns a VFR1200 & has come off a gen 5/6 feel the VFR1200 has less drive out of corners in 2nd or more. <<utter and absolute horseshit. sorry, just calling a spade a spade! Sorry I don't understand your reply, what is absolute horseshit? If you read my quote it is a question not a statement as I don't own a VFR1200 so have no idea but I did own before my CBR a VFR800VTEC for 5 years, it is probably my mistake for not including a ??????? after the sentence. Solomoto: I understand your reply but as this is the internet you don't always add all the facts & only used the CBR as an example due to my current ride. Before the CBR I had a VFR800VTEC which I owned for 5 years & as far as cornering goes was as good as the CBR but in it's own way. Yes the CBR is a purpose built sportbike & is made to eat corners granted & the reason I bought it (maybe mid life crises) but as I mainly do major km trips these days & I'm not getting any younger it is becoming impractical. Reason I wish to go back to a sports tourer, but having been corrupted by the extra hp of the CBR the only bike that I feel fills my needs is the VFR1200, if the need for extra hp wasn't a wish then I would happily go back to a VTEC. So as my question above, how do people find the VFR1200 handling & drive out of tight corners compared to the GEN5&6? because my concern is mainly the limiting of 1st & 2nd power on the VFR1200. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 3, 2010 Share Posted October 3, 2010 My apologies...without the question mark it appeared to be another crap statement about the so called lack of power of the 1200 in the lower gears. I believe the performance numbers are 0-60 in 2.7 secs and 0-100 in 5.7 secs. It slingshots me out of the corners. The computer mapping in the lower gears is so overly exaggerated...you really just need to ride one to see. There is virtually nothing about this bike that is similar to the previous generations and I personally don't know why they kept it under the interceptor name. Completely different machine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zRoYz Posted October 3, 2010 Share Posted October 3, 2010 My apologies...without the question mark it appeared to be another crap statement about the so called lack of power of the 1200 in the lower gears. I believe the performance numbers are 0-60 in 2.7 secs and 0-100 in 5.7 secs. It slingshots me out of the corners. The computer mapping in the lower gears is so overly exaggerated...you really just need to ride one to see. There is virtually nothing about this bike that is similar to the previous generations and I personally don't know why they kept it under the interceptor name. Completely different machine. Thank you for a owners input, I have had a test ride but as stated the limited use & not being my bike with a major $$ hit if shit happens I can't really tell if the limiting will have an effect that may bug me. I have looked at the figures but doesn't really relate to real world application so an owners input is worth much more. I understand it is very hard to compare to any other bike but the power delivery should have similar characteristics to the other gens due to motor configurations. What I liked most about the VTEC was the smooth constant rear wheel power that builds like it has no end, unlike an inline 4 which at a certain point becomes ballistic. My concern was with a heavy bike like the VFR1200 opening the throttle & not having expected motor response which in turn can have the feeling the bike just wants to fall over when your at an extreme lean angle in a slow corner. My example is I enjoy very tight corners & these on my VFR800 & the CBR are mostly second gear corners (they can be 1st gear on the CBR but things become to twitchy for road riding) & there isn't very much information on the effect if any the limiting of the VFR1200 1st & 2nd gear power may have in the real world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Solomoto Posted October 3, 2010 Member Contributer Share Posted October 3, 2010 My apologies...without the question mark it appeared to be another crap statement about the so called lack of power of the 1200 in the lower gears. I believe the performance numbers are 0-60 in 2.7 secs and 0-100 in 5.7 secs. It slingshots me out of the corners. The computer mapping in the lower gears is so overly exaggerated...you really just need to ride one to see. There is virtually nothing about this bike that is similar to the previous generations and I personally don't know why they kept it under the interceptor name. Completely different machine. Thank you for a owners input, I have had a test ride but as stated the limited use & not being my bike with a major $$ hit if shit happens I can't really tell if the limiting will have an effect that may bug me. I have looked at the figures but doesn't really relate to real world application so an owners input is worth much more. I understand it is very hard to compare to any other bike but the power delivery should have similar characteristics to the other gens due to motor configurations. What I liked most about the VTEC was the smooth constant rear wheel power that builds like it has no end, unlike an inline 4 which at a certain point becomes ballistic. My concern was with a heavy bike like the VFR1200 opening the throttle & not having expected motor response which in turn can have the feeling the bike just wants to fall over when your at an extreme lean angle in a slow corner. My example is I enjoy very tight corners & these on my VFR800 & the CBR are mostly second gear corners (they can be 1st gear on the CBR but things become to twitchy for road riding) & there isn't very much information on the effect if any the limiting of the VFR1200 1st & 2nd gear power may have in the real world. I can see where you're coming from now. I've posted in another thread about the 1st/2nd gear flat spot inherent in the VFR1200. The 2nd gear flat spot below about 5500 rpm is indeed very annoying when riding aggressively in the tight twisties which I do enjoy doing from time to time. With the DCT, I generally leave it in sport mode when riding the twisties so I can concentrate on the lines and braking, but when coming out of relatively tight corners, it puts the bike in 2nd gear and when I open the throttle at say 4000 rpm, the flat spot really makes itself known. Nothing happens until about 5500-6000 rpm then wham! it takes off. It creates a distinct disconnected sensation between the rider and bike. This is the one flaw in an otherwise stellar machine. The rest of the time when I'm riding a more moderate pace, the flat spot is not so much of an issue, mainly because I'm more likely to be in 3rd gear which doesn't have the flat spot and I'm just rolling on the throttle as opposed to snapping it open. I do hope Honda issues a software patch to address this issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 4, 2010 Share Posted October 4, 2010 Honda may not, but Powercommander will.. keep talking guys, Friday's coming. I'll print out this thread and take it with me. As for driving hard out of corners, my riding is a little more sedate than that on the street.. :tour: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandyRedRC46 Posted October 4, 2010 Share Posted October 4, 2010 it sounds like this bike could benifit from a tre (timing retard eliminator). not for advancing timing, but just for tricking the bike into thinking that its always in say third fourth or fith gear .(which ever gear is not limited by the throttle possition). this is what they do on the busa's (which are limited by timing instead of throttle) to regain the power in the lower gears, as well as erase the top speed limit... its a fairly simple and cheap mod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zRoYz Posted October 5, 2010 Share Posted October 5, 2010 it sounds like this bike could benifit from a tre (timing retard eliminator). not for advancing timing, but just for tricking the bike into thinking that its always in say third fourth or fith gear .(which ever gear is not limited by the throttle possition). this is what they do on the busa's (which are limited by timing instead of throttle) to regain the power in the lower gears, as well as erase the top speed limit... its a fairly simple and cheap mod. I sent an email to power commander about the 1st & 2nd gear limiting & there response wasn't conclusive on the way honda have gone about doing the limiting, my guess is fueling will have no effect so fitting a pc alone won't help the 1st & 2nd gear limiting & it is performed with the timing. What you have said makes sense but it would be nice to know exactly what Honda have done. I found this dyno map that has a 2nd gear run over layed onto 3rd & 4th gear run, you can plainly see the dip & 20hp odd less power in 2nd gear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandyRedRC46 Posted October 5, 2010 Share Posted October 5, 2010 it sounds like this bike could benifit from a tre (timing retard eliminator). not for advancing timing, but just for tricking the bike into thinking that its always in say third fourth or fith gear .(which ever gear is not limited by the throttle possition). this is what they do on the busa's (which are limited by timing instead of throttle) to regain the power in the lower gears, as well as erase the top speed limit... its a fairly simple and cheap mod. I sent an email to power commander about the 1st & 2nd gear limiting & there response wasn't conclusive on the way honda have gone about doing the limiting, my guess is fueling will have no effect so fitting a pc alone won't help the 1st & 2nd gear limiting & it is performed with the timing. What you have said makes sense but it would be nice to know exactly what Honda have done. I found this dyno map that has a 2nd gear run over layed onto 3rd & 4th gear run, you can plainly see the dip & 20hp odd less power in 2nd gear. yeah that dip doesnt look like fun... funny this who time i thought the limiting was done with the throttle bodies, not just pulling back igniton timng. well it makes sence, honda does it to the cbr1000rr and 600rr. anyways if its timing its a simple fix that any of these companies can make for the vfr... just look up : dyno jet ignition module, TRE bazzaz z bomb. all the tuning companes have solutions for this. almost every suzuki bike has restricted timing. and honda pulled almost 10 hp off the top of the new us model cbr1000rr to meet noise emissions: http://www.motovation-accessory.com.sg/index.php?act=article&id=6 http://www.bazzaz.net/bz1/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=vmj_genx_img1.tpl&product_id=138&category_id=26&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=181 http://www.ivansperformanceproducts.com/tre.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 5, 2010 Share Posted October 5, 2010 ..and honda pulled almost 10 hp off the top of the new us model cbr1000rr to meet noise emissions Stay tuned for 2013 when all new model bikes must have OEM exhaust (that has the stamping). It's not going to be fun at all. Horsepower is going to go down again to meet decible restrictions.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest notinline Posted October 5, 2010 Share Posted October 5, 2010 Honda wouldn't release the rights to their plug, Great way to sell bikes Honda - offering the aftermarket zero support? Anyway , I can't get my hands on the part i suspect needs modified. Fueling all works with a simple gear position signal to the ECU along with rpm count from the engine. Throttle grip to ECU and ECU to throttle bodies. After tricking the gear position switch into sending the ECU a 3-4-5th gear signal , then will be best time to build a clean performance map . My guess is the servo is holding off opening the throttle blades in the lower gears based on gear position signal to the ECU which could be as easy as jumping two solder connectors or wires if it use's a rotary style switch. . There's chance of course that massive ignition retard is going on but i really doubt it considering how power is reported to kick in.. The engine does use a knock sensor as a FWIW. It pulls timing and the ECU could be managed to do same , dependent of what gear. Can someone come up with the actual location of the gear change switch? Currently the parts fiche don't show great detail . Although i believe DynoJet has in the past offered their one version of a TRE , defeating top speed restriction does not seem the number 1 item to target to fix for right now. I'll try my best to come up with actual photos of the gear position switch Suzuki uses which might make better sense.It's located behind the clutch basket. A TRE is no longer needed on the Hayabusa as example .Each gear had a separate fuel map and ran excessive fuel in the lower gears only to enable to obtain max ignition timing in 6th gear. The 1200F might be a bit simpler in that it will not have ram air compensation in the ECM fuel tables.. If the lower rpm HP neutering can be fixed, i will be riding a VFR1200F within weeks . It's the only bike i have been excited about in a good number of years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest notinline Posted October 5, 2010 Share Posted October 5, 2010 Can an owner look at their bike and tell how many wires is coming off the gear switch here? This might just be the neutral switch is why i ask. Parts Fiche Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutchgixxer Posted October 6, 2010 Author Share Posted October 6, 2010 Can an owner look at their bike and tell how many wires is coming off the gear switch here? This might just be the neutral switch is why i ask. Parts Fiche On the scematic i can find a shift spindle angle sensor ( 3 wires: yellow/red pink and grey ) ( suzuki is calling the thing gear position sensor ) it is conneced to pin a32 p spdl on the ecu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest notinline Posted October 6, 2010 Share Posted October 6, 2010 Can an owner look at their bike and tell how many wires is coming off the gear switch here? This might just be the neutral switch is why i ask. Parts Fiche On the scematic i can find a shift spindle angle sensor ( 3 wires: yellow/red pink and grey ) ( suzuki is calling the thing gear position sensor ) it is conneced to pin a32 p spdl on the ecu The shift spindle angle sensor sounded familiar so i googled. Perhaps that is used for the 1200FA model. Honda uses it on Foremans, FourTrax ect . My link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Noddy Posted October 6, 2010 Member Contributer Share Posted October 6, 2010 If the lower rpm HP neutering can be fixed, i will be riding a VFR1200F within weeks . It's the only bike i have been excited about in a good number of years. It's really a minor issue in second, and if you ride with the revs over 4.5k you won't notice it. I have a DCT which means it changes from 1st to 2nd pretty quickly (whether it's in S or D mode) but the way to get a quick getaway is to manually select 1st and flick the button to change up. Hey presto! Problem cured Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted October 12, 2010 Share Posted October 12, 2010 Prior to this fork in the road..: I dropped the bike off @ Powercommander Friday. The tech is well aware of the info I relayed to him. Powercommander will do their best to see if the 2nd gear issue can be improved, but keep in mind that their product is an interface to the ECU, not a replacement for it. And so the process begins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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