AM I the only one that HATES Motorcycle Electrical diagrams?

[TomG33]

AS an Electrical Engineer, I am used to working with Schematics that are intuitive, and easy to follow.

It seems that the traditional Automotove style of doing Electrical schematics is more tuned to showing how

the Bike is physically wired then offering an easy to understand representation of how the machine is supposed to work.

I HATE tracing black lines around a page of the existing drawing, to work out how something is supposed to work, I always seem to jump tracks

and wind up at the wrong destination, Or forget where a particular wire came from.

Am I alone on this ??????? Honestly !!!!!!!

Instead of just Bitch'n and Moan'n I decided to have a go at making another drawing that is a little easier to follow.

Naturally I have not finished this, and only covered the basic fuses and lights and switches, but I was

wondering if anybody else sees a need for a different view of the electrical side of our machines.

This is still "WOrk In Progress" and I will start on the ignition side of things when I get further inspiration,

Or more rainy weekends, which ever comes first.

The drawing is based on the post 05 schematic that someone from this forum supplied, so I am assuming it is 6th generation

standard VFR.

I acknowledge that the original schematic is a very useful and accurate tool and in no way advocating it's demise, but

I am just wondering if there is a place for a more logical control drawing so we can easily figure out how the dammed things are supposed to work

Comments please

[TomG33]

........

Instead of just Bitch'n and Moan'n I decided to have a go at making another drawing that is a little easier to follow.

Naturally I have not finished this, and only covered the basic fuses and lights and switches, but I was

wondering if anybody else sees a need for a different view of the electrical side of our machines.

............

I uploaded the drawing as a picture in my gallery,

[timmythecop]

Good work. That chart looks great, thank you. (now you will be asked to do one for each gen, starting with number 5)

Just to insurt some humor into your painful electric woes, howzabout this:

I had a 1986 Guzzi v65 Lario in 1987. I had really bad electrical problems like pressing the horn and the high beams comming on and the left turn signal flashed the brake light. I thought, no problem, I will just consult the wiring diagram that was thoughtfully included with the bike, and I'll fix her right up. I took the seat and tank off, and the cover over the ignition switch. (Mind you this really happened) I looked down and to my horror, EVERY WIRE ON THE BIKE WAS BLACK!!!!!!!! Really, every one! :laugh: :cool: :bliss: :pissed: :pissed: :pissed: :pissed: :pissed: :pissed: :owned:

[Lee 2002]

Yeah, that's the way they should all look. Or at least the manufacturer should include a ladder type schematic as a supplement.

Lots of work on your part. Thanks. Above and beyond!

Tom's Schematic:

[pres589]

That really is a pretty good diagram that you've drawn, what did you make it with? I would definitely be interested in having a version that's "finalized" by you with higher quality and such for better detail when you're ready to share that with the world.

[TomG33]

That really is a pretty good diagram that you've drawn, what did you make it with? I would definitely be interested in having a version that's "finalized" by you with higher quality and such for better detail when you're ready to share that with the world.

Thanks Guys.

It is done with Visio. Really easy to draw with. THe time is burned up trying to work out how it works in the first place and then working out how

to draw it without too many Cross overs.

I printed it to a PDF and in this form it is very clear when printed on a A3 page, but the galery will not let me upload PDF's so I had to convert it

to Jpeg just to post it. once I finish this particuar bike model it should not be too difficult to modify a base drawing to the other generations.

I guess it all depends on how much time i get to work on it.

Tom

[Lee 2002]

Your finalized .pdf can be uploaded to the "Downloads" section of the forum. (and I'm sure I wouldn't be the only person to appreciate it)

http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php?app=downloads&showcat=2

[enzed_viffer]

Good work. :laugh:

I think one of the problems with the factory wiring diagram is that it's a poor representation of a weird 3D layout, and that it attempts to show everything. When you're diagnosing a problem, you don't necessarily need to see EVERYTHING, just the relevant bits, colours, where the plugs'n'connectors'n'switches are, what they look like, etc.

Looks like your diagram is a good step in the right direction.

Oh - and yes, I guess most of us have trouble tracking a wire right through without getting lost.

[SEBSPEED]

Your finalized .pdf can be uploaded to the "Downloads" section of the forum. (and I'm sure I wouldn't be the only person to appreciate it)

http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php?app=downloads&showcat=2

Good Work Tom! I'd like to add that if you do decide to upload, please include the year/make/model of the bike that it's for in the file name, and/or in a title block on the drawing. :laugh:

Electrical work was never my favorite part of bike work, especially diagnosing - in part due to the schematics provided by the factory. To get myself going, I made copies of the schematics and traced the wires I wanted to work on with a pen or highlighter. It got the job done a few times. :cool:

[Serenity_VFR]

Nice, as a field electrician I've had to deal with the whole range of diagrams out there, many of which can be much worse than the one that Honda supplies for its motorcycles.

I've found that the only way to deal with the large blocks of closely-spaced parallel lines is to get a seperate sheet of paper or a straight edge along with a pointer or pencil to make the turns. It's still an arduous process and fraught with error. It's best to double-check every trace to make sure there wasn't a mistake. Trying to get a feel for how a circuit works, and what is involved in a motorcycle-type diagram, is not easy or intuitive even for me. I can only imagine that someone who isn't trained would find it almost impossible.

In the past I've always blamed the EE's who made these crazy diagrams. In the electrical construction field we have a saying about engineers, "You can tell an engineer from a mile away -but up close you can't tell them jack squat." Often things look good on paper but translate poorly into reality. Sometimes they don't even look good on paper (such as the VFR wiring diagram).

All kidding aside, I really like this ladder diagram version. You do good work. After you get it finalized, move on to the Gen5 please. If you need a good scan I could make and send you one from my factory manual. It would make an excellent addition to my Manual/Log/Work-order/Receipt 3-ring binder

[Serenity_VFR]

Forgot to add this in my last post. A couple of suggestions:

• Please leave some extra spacing for people to add in changes and/or extra circuits.
  
• The connectors are often colored -the Toyota Electrical supplemental manual (yes, it's an ENTIRE thick 100-page manual with a ladder diagram -swoon!) for my 84 Diesel Camry has them color-labeled on the diagram as well as little line-drawing pictures of them so you can identify them. The pictures are probably too much to ask for on anything short of a 100-page comic book version, but if Honda is consistent with the color coding it would be nice to have that color coding info on your diagram too.
  

Edited to add: I see you DO have the color-coding information in some of the multi-pin connectors -just not all of them. Nice job!

[Ryanme17]

Good work. That chart looks great, thank you. (now you will be asked to do one for each gen, starting with number 5)

Just to insurt some humor into your painful electric woes, howzabout this:

I had a 1986 Guzzi v65 Lario in 1987. I had really bad electrical problems like pressing the horn and the high beams comming on and the left turn signal flashed the brake light. I thought, no problem, I will just consult the wiring diagram that was thoughtfully included with the bike, and I'll fix her right up. I took the seat and tank off, and the cover over the ignition switch. (Mind you this really happened) I looked down and to my horror, EVERY WIRE ON THE BIKE WAS BLACK!!!!!!!! Really, every one! :unsure: :fing02: :pissed: :pissed: :pissed: :pissed: :pissed: :pissed: :pissed: :owned:

Flat black?? That's not a good thing?:biggrin:

[TomG33]

.............

I looked down and to my horror, EVERY WIRE ON THE BIKE WAS BLACK!!!!!!!!

Flat black?? That's not a good thing?:goofy:

MMMM My thoughts on this comment were split two ways.

Were the wires black because they were all burned black ?, in which case you were very lucky to get off your ride before it burst into flames :O)

and the other strand was

"Are they black because that's the colour the Italians choose ? Still not good :o)

[TomG33]

In the past I've always blamed the EE's who made these crazy diagrams. In the electrical construction field we have a saying about engineers, "You can tell an engineer from a mile away -but up close you can't tell them jack squat."

If you need a good scan I could make and send you one from my factory manual. It would make an excellent addition to my Manual/Log/Work-order/Receipt 3-ring binder

ouch :pissed: There are no shortages of these types of engineers, but I try not to be one of them. Actually Drawings are usually made by Electrical Draftys, operating under the direction of Engineers, so the blame can go a couple of ways

if you wish to be pedantic :goofy:

Just kidding, you are totally justified in your comments because, saddly, many engineers forget that the final user is the one that will spend the most time looking at the diagrams, not the factory guys, and not the service shop guys.

.... I could go on forever, it's best that you do not get me started, seriously...........

regarding the scans, Yes a good scan from the workshop manual would be good, but taking Sebspeeds advice above, Supplying the bike model and year and other stuff to positively identify which machine it relates to, is a must.

But first things first, I will draw out my own model completely before moving onto other machines. That could take some time as I havn't even taken delivery yet. :fing02:

Tom

[timmythecop]

.............

I looked down and to my horror, EVERY WIRE ON THE BIKE WAS BLACK!!!!!!!!

Flat black?? That's not a good thing?:goofy:

MMMM My thoughts on this comment were split two ways.

Were the wires black because they were all burned black ?, in which case you were very lucky to get off your ride before it burst into flames :O)

and the other strand was

"Are they black because that's the colour the Italians choose ? Still not good :o)

It was like this: Guseppe, we-a are outt-a the colour-a wire-a.......go gett-a some black-a.

They were all installed with factory black wires. (and they all ran through the ignition switch - the eventual culprit)

[Knife]

Don't forget to add hover-over pop-ups of photos of each and every component shown on the drawing so that the electrically challenged (like me) can easily find on the bike what the diagram is indicating. (J/K) And will the 5th gen drawing be ready by Monday (again, J/K)

[gll429]

all black wires .. did it!! no key switch.. i had a 20 pin block connector as the key just under the seat.. but only needed 3 wires.. no theft of that bike!!!

[Guest]

I partially "colorized" a scan of the service manual schematic when I was wheelchair bound a couple of years ago. Not nearly as ambitious as your project, may or may not be helpful to you but I find it easier to trace than all black lines.

http://www.mediafire.com/?znzmzezwweq

[TomG33]

I partially "colorized" a scan of the service manual schematic when I was wheelchair bound a couple of years ago. Not nearly as ambitious as your project, may or may not be helpful to you but I find it easier to trace than all black lines.

http://www.mediafire.com/?znzmzezwweq

Thanks,

You must have been bored. It is the same drawing that I have been working from, So I will use it from here on.

There seems to be enough positive responses to make me want to finish what I started. I will take the various suggestions on board , and see if i can produce something on say three A3 Pages that shows everything.

I will need some volunters to check a Beta version against the original Schematic. I've been around long enough to know that someone checking their own work just doesn't cut it.

Thanks for the support

Tom

[TomG33]

:fing02:

OK Guys,

I have uploaded my redrawn 6th generation electrical schematic. It is in the Downloads area, and I am guessing, awating Moderators approval to become available for download.

Take a look at it and let me know if you find any mistakes there.

Happy reading

Tom Grayson 28 APril 2010