Guest Mitchell12481 Posted April 5, 2008 Share Posted April 5, 2008 This is my first posting so I hope it pays off. I have spent hours reading through the Electrical Issue Postings. I see a lot covering R/R and stators. Here is how my issues have evolved....maybe you can help! I have had a battery that was supposively new when I bought my bike. Its a 1998 VFR800 with only 9000K. It rode fine for 3 months...then I had issues with the battery just going dead whenever it felt like it. I found out through troubleshooting that the R/R was not charging the battery....so I replaced the R/R. Then the battery was messed up (I figured due to the old R/R failure) It ran find for about 3 more months. I have had problems with the clock and mileage reseting, usually overnight. But it still ran fine.....Now I have a new issue. My specs are as follows: No key on: 11.92 Key on: 9.73 Idle: 14.23 When I hit the starter....its drops to 3-5Volts....doesn't seem normal....I have to hit the starter three or four consecutive times....then it acts like it is building up and fires up. Today I started it after three times of hitting the starter. I drove a few miles. Shut it off. Cycled the key. Hit the starter and it fired the first try. I shut the key off and tried it again and it wouldnt start.....seem like the battery was dead. I'm stumped....Any guidance out there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V4 Rosso Posted April 5, 2008 Share Posted April 5, 2008 :rolleyes: No key on: 11.92Key on: 9.73 Idle: 14.23 The RR is working hard trying to revive a dead battery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Peto Posted April 5, 2008 Member Contributer Share Posted April 5, 2008 Did you test your stator? A bad stator could have caused all your problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer VFRGEEZER Posted April 5, 2008 Member Contributer Share Posted April 5, 2008 Possibly a bad ground connection! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 5, 2008 Share Posted April 5, 2008 This is my first posting so I hope it pays off. I have spent hours reading through the Electrical Issue Postings. I see a lot covering R/R and stators. Here is how my issues have evolved....maybe you can help!I have had a battery that was supposively new when I bought my bike. Its a 1998 VFR800 with only 9000K. It rode fine for 3 months...then I had issues with the battery just going dead whenever it felt like it. I found out through troubleshooting that the R/R was not charging the battery....so I replaced the R/R. Then the battery was messed up (I figured due to the old R/R failure) It ran find for about 3 more months. I have had problems with the clock and mileage reseting, usually overnight. But it still ran fine.....Now I have a new issue. My specs are as follows: No key on: 11.92 Key on: 9.73 Idle: 14.23 When I hit the starter....its drops to 3-5Volts....doesn't seem normal....I have to hit the starter three or four consecutive times....then it acts like it is building up and fires up. Today I started it after three times of hitting the starter. I drove a few miles. Shut it off. Cycled the key. Hit the starter and it fired the first try. I shut the key off and tried it again and it wouldnt start.....seem like the battery was dead. I'm stumped....Any guidance out there? Your battery is done dude ! If you keep using it, it will overwork the charging system and cost lots more to fix. Get a Yuasa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 5, 2008 Share Posted April 5, 2008 Okay gentlemen, I would first like to thank you guys for your ideas. I checked the grounds and no problems. I went to test the stator and had a little difficulty getting the two connectors apart! They looked like they caught fire at some point....they were melted together. I got them apart and it seems like both ends of each harness are worthless. Any ideas what to do next? I assume this is what has been resetting my clock/gauges and killed two batteries. I just put the R/R just 3 months ago it doesn't even have 100 miles on it. Is there any way to salvage the R/R eventhough the harness is toast? The battery was at 12.28V this morning and it wasn't on the maintainer lastnight. Turned the key on and it went to 9.5 volts...and began dropping....wouldn't start. Where should I begin? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 5, 2008 Share Posted April 5, 2008 If you have damage to your harness I'd do a search for the vfrness.....at any rate, www.wiremybike.com. He has upgraded wires with new connectors, I'm not sure that'll solve any problems but it may help prevent future ones from occuring. As others have stated, if your battery has been ran dead several times to yourself a favor a replace it as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad Boy Posted April 5, 2008 Share Posted April 5, 2008 My 02 VFR has gone through 3 stators in this last year, the last one in 500 miles of use. The connector to the RR melts as well as the stator it self. It overheats and melts the wire insulation. There should not be continuity between the three yellow stator wires and ground. If there is it is toasted, replace it. If good you then test the AC output and compare to shop manual (manual a must have). Before my last failure the battery tested bad but still worked and was only a year old so I continued to use it. I am no expert on this but suspect the battery was bad from the start and over taxed the system trying to keep it charged and it over heats the wire connector and then the stator. You can order a R/R plug from Rick's Motorsports Electrics on line or solder the connection to the stator and eliminate the electrical bottle neck at that connector. Definately replace the battery. After the trouble I had I just got fed up and recently replace everything. The alternator, R/R, and battery. Ordered parts on line through ServiceHonda.com and installed my self so it was still cheaper than the work I had done previously by the dealer. With the new wire harness Honda just replaced under recall I have a whole new electrical system. Too soon to tell but if I have trouble after this the VFR is history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Peto Posted April 5, 2008 Member Contributer Share Posted April 5, 2008 I think you should test the 3 wires coming from the stator. Test for voltage, continuity, and ground conditions. A bad stator can induce high current through the wires. This current will cause the wires to heat up and melt the connectors. This same high current can cause a R/R to fail, especially the factory R/R because they are not very good a cooling themselves. Once you are in this situation your battery is next. As someone else stated, once it has been depleted a few times it is shot. You purchased a new R/R which helped the battery some, but even a bad battery can sometimes be jumped and will be ok for a bit, then leave you stranded. Therefore you now need a new battery. However, in my opinion, you are back to square one with a bad stator, and you will soon end up with another bad R/R and battery. Also you dont need the plugs, just wire the thing directly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtlecreek Posted April 5, 2008 Share Posted April 5, 2008 Okay gentlemen,I would first like to thank you guys for your ideas. I checked the grounds and no problems. I went to test the stator and had a little difficulty getting the two connectors apart! They looked like they caught fire at some point....they were melted together. I got them apart and it seems like both ends of each harness are worthless. Any ideas what to do next? I assume this is what has been resetting my clock/gauges and killed two batteries. I just put the R/R just 3 months ago it doesn't even have 100 miles on it. Is there any way to salvage the R/R eventhough the harness is toast? The battery was at 12.28V this morning and it wasn't on the maintainer lastnight. Turned the key on and it went to 9.5 volts...and began dropping....wouldn't start. Where should I begin? 12.28 is not enough, should be 12.5 minimum. I'd start with the new battery and a new plug or solder the wires straight through instead of the plug i wouldn't say that for certain.....my 03 shows 12.1 when i turn it on and it might quickly drop to 11.9 or so, yet it always cranks, the battery is fine and the rest of electrical is ok. not saying that in most situations it isnt 12.5 (i dont know), but sitting below 12.5 isnt DEFINITELY a problem. however, the turn the key on and drop to 9.5 obviously is. just cut off the connectors if melted and solder straight through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtlecreek Posted April 5, 2008 Share Posted April 5, 2008 Okay gentlemen,I would first like to thank you guys for your ideas. I checked the grounds and no problems. I went to test the stator and had a little difficulty getting the two connectors apart! They looked like they caught fire at some point....they were melted together. I got them apart and it seems like both ends of each harness are worthless. Any ideas what to do next? I assume this is what has been resetting my clock/gauges and killed two batteries. I just put the R/R just 3 months ago it doesn't even have 100 miles on it. Is there any way to salvage the R/R eventhough the harness is toast? The battery was at 12.28V this morning and it wasn't on the maintainer lastnight. Turned the key on and it went to 9.5 volts...and began dropping....wouldn't start. Where should I begin? 12.28 is not enough, should be 12.5 minimum. I'd start with the new battery and a new plug or solder the wires straight through instead of the plug i wouldn't say that for certain.....my 03 shows 12.1 when i turn it on and it might quickly drop to 11.9 or so, yet it always cranks, the battery is fine and the rest of electrical is ok. not saying that in most situations it isnt 12.5 (i dont know), but sitting below 12.5 isnt DEFINITELY a problem. however, the turn the key on and drop to 9.5 obviously is. just cut off the connectors if melted and solder straight through. 12.1 is not good, this is less than 50% charged. The battery will begin to sulphate at anything 12.4 or lower. Fully charged should be 12.7, no less. k, you sound like you know what you are saying...i am simply saying that mine is and has been this way for 2 years and gives no problems... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 6, 2008 Share Posted April 6, 2008 I have now tested the stator (yellow) wires and I cannot get any continuity on any of the three. So I guess I would begin by installing a new stator, new battery....and then possible a new R/R. Do I need to purchase the wiring harness I keep hearing so much about? Does anyone have any input as to where to buy these parts for the best value? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Peto Posted April 6, 2008 Member Contributer Share Posted April 6, 2008 Yes, you are not supposed to have continuity. Next, test the resistance of each yellow wire combination, and the voltage with the R/R unplugged. There are a few good posts pinned on the main electrical page. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tightwad Posted April 6, 2008 Share Posted April 6, 2008 Replace the connector, or bypass it by SOLDERING the wires(don't just use crimp connectors) and then retest. Replace the battery prior to testing, and you should be fine. If the battery is bad the test won't work well because disabling the charging system(for the test) will soon result in not enough current to power the bike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 Okay here's where I stand. I cannot find a aftermarket stator so its OEM or rebuilt through RICK's. As for the regulator...I had hoped mine is still good since it has like 100 miles on it.....but everything I read says just replace it....its probably toast. I bought a electrosport on last time....does anyone have suggestions on whether to buy a new one or not...and if so what is the best one? I of course will buy a new battery. I'm still trying to decide whether to "beef dem wires up" Not sure if I did if I just need the recifier harness or to go with the fuse section also while I am at it. Let me know what you think and any tips on where to purchase I would appreciate it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspanglish Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 DEFINITELY beef up them wires. Don't think about it... just do it!! If I were you I would also purchase Tightwad's (website: wiremybike.com) R/R (at least) and (if you can) his VFRness for your model. I'm sure that will iron all the bugs out for you... could save you much much more money in the end.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspanglish Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 Well connectors don't just melt for no good reason and the only thing sending more juice than needed to that connector would be the stator... which means the stator is pumping out more than necessary... so he's probably basing himself on that... of course, one would have to get all the right readings done first... the stators are known for overheating and overworking issues on the 02-05 models, not the 98-99... but it could happen. You can't fix something piece-meal like that. First the proper diagnosis (sorry, I'm not proficient enough to give you a protocol tofollow) then the fix... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 7, 2008 Share Posted April 7, 2008 Well I have replace two batteries and an R/R in the past year. I have tried to test for continuity and found nothing from the stator (3 yellow) wires. I couldn't get a resistance reading since the wires and connector are toasted! I guess I could cut connector off and test the wires better then...but the end connectors are black. I had believe as Auspanol stated above, that this is a common problem. I did not realize this is not as common on 98-99 versions. I'm just really struggling to get the bike back on the road and want to fix the problems. It looks like the wires sets are a great idea. I dont' know what else could be the cause of my endless regulators and batteries. Does anyone know where I can find directions to properly test my stator in detail. The service manual just says to check the resistance and continuity...but others post much more complicated specs....I am also wondering which of the VFRness wire sets I need. Obviously, the R/R but I think I might need to go ahead and use the fuse box set as well....what do you guys think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspanglish Posted April 9, 2008 Share Posted April 9, 2008 First things first do as Tightwad says... replace the connector or solder the wires together and do away with the burnt out connector. You won't get reliable readings with that connector all melted. Remember, several reliable folk are pointing out that you SHOULDN'T have continuity... You must also have a battery in good condition in order for the tests to be valid. In the end if you decide to buy tightwad's stuff, you'll need the one's I've circled... 98-99 model harness and R/R. If you really think you'll be installig more accesories, you'd do good to get the one the arrow points to instead of the regular harness. You'll have to read all the related threads in the Maintenance section (electrical), and follow they advice and how-tos according to your situation. They usually don't like to double up on the same info in several threads... I was completely incompetent when it came to electricals until I slowly started putting into practice what I've read here. I'm stubborn but do procrastinate. So it takesme a while but I've learnt to do stuff myself now. Installed a cigarette-style 12V charger socket and a PC fan to the R/R myself recently after the job an Electrical Engineer friend did for me failed!!! I wish I could help you more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer backonabike Posted April 9, 2008 Member Contributer Share Posted April 9, 2008 I have a 99 and I have had the same EXACT problems, the stock wiring is s%*%. If you want to get it back on the road you should cut the burned connector out between the R/R and the Stator and SOLDER BIGGER GUAGE wires in. This will fix the problem between the R/R and the Stator. The wires are too small and once the connector gets dirty( and not very dirty BTW) it bottlenecks the current and builds resistance which brings the heat. As for beefin the wires I would do it, I am going to buy Tightwad's fuse VFRness. It probably would not hurt to buy the connector also but I don't think it will help much hardwired is a solid connection. Also don't buy the R/R until you know yours is bad, my connector was burned enough to kill the bike while riding but after I hardwired it she's been AOK. Just to ask a question while we are on the subject, I have read about this problem on a bunch of 5th gens mostly sub 20k machines. I find this completely unacceptable. While I am a huge Honda fan, 3 bikes, 3 cars in my driving life I will think twice about my next purchase. The 6th gens have had a recall. Is it just me or does anyone else feel that Honda should also recall and fix the 5th gens? I know these bikes are old, but this is a very obvious design flaw. I know someone from american Honda is reading this, your reputation for rock solid reliability is being tarnished. If you don't care that's OK just be prepared for the sales slump ala the American Big Three. I'm done ranting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tightwad Posted April 9, 2008 Share Posted April 9, 2008 I don't think your battery is bad. The Stator and R/R are still questionable at this point. Here is what I would do if it were my bike(and I have one and have done this....) #1. Charge the battery(disconnected from bike) for at least 24 hours on a low amp charger(3 amp or so). #2. Check the voltage...will probably 13.1 or so...certainly not less than 12.6 #3. Let the battery sit, NOT on the charger, another 4 hours or so #4. Check the voltage of the battery...should be 12.5 still #5. Re-connect battery to bike, and check voltage while cranking....shouldn't drop below 10.5 If battery is good, next test the stator. #1. With engine off, and stator disconnected, check for resistance from each yellow wire to ground...there should be none. #2. Check resistance between each of the 3 legs...wire # 1 to wire #2, then wire # 3, then wire #2 to wire # 3....resistance should be between .1 ohm and 1 ohm. #3. With the engine running, test the AC (please test on AC setting) voltage between each of the legs again.....should be ~50 VAC If Stator test ok(go ahead and fix that connection if so...solder it to the R/R....you can always take it back apart if the R/R is bad): Test the voltage at idle, mid range, and ~5K RPM....by mid-range you should get 14+ volts. If you aren't, you know your R/R is bad...because we already determined the Stator and Battery were ok. All 3 items rely heavily on the others working correctly. If one is bad, it can take out another....then you get into a cycle of replacing 1 only to have another be failing. Read and follow the "Beef up Dem Wires" thread as well.....fixing the initial current path problem will help avoid charging system issues in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bear22099 Posted April 9, 2008 Share Posted April 9, 2008 Well connectors don't just melt for no good reason and the only thing sending more juice than needed to that connector would be the stator... which means the stator is pumping out more than necessary... so he's probably basing himself on that... of course, one would have to get all the right readings done first... the stators are known for overheating and overworking issues on the 02-05 models, not the 98-99... but it could happen. You can't fix something piece-meal like that. First the proper diagnosis (sorry, I'm not proficient enough to give you a protocol tofollow) then the fix... The stator ALWAYS puts out full voltage (over 50 volts AC actually), so it is not the source of the burning connector. The connector is a symptom of something else, not the cause. Somewhere in the system there is high resistance. A bad battery can be the cause, as can any bad connection between the R/R and the battery. The R/R gets a lot of blame, as does the stator, and wrongly so. This is a system, and all parts must work together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tightwad Posted April 10, 2008 Share Posted April 10, 2008 Well connectors don't just melt for no good reason and the only thing sending more juice than needed to that connector would be the stator... which means the stator is pumping out more than necessary... so he's probably basing himself on that... of course, one would have to get all the right readings done first... the stators are known for overheating and overworking issues on the 02-05 models, not the 98-99... but it could happen. You can't fix something piece-meal like that. First the proper diagnosis (sorry, I'm not proficient enough to give you a protocol tofollow) then the fix... The stator ALWAYS puts out full voltage (over 50 volts AC actually), so it is not the source of the burning connector. The connector is a symptom of something else, not the cause. Somewhere in the system there is high resistance. A bad battery can be the cause, as can any bad connection between the R/R and the battery. The R/R gets a lot of blame, as does the stator, and wrongly so. This is a system, and all parts must work together. I do agree that the burned connector is usually the sign, and not the root cause. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 HEY HONDA: Your Proctolgist called....I think they found your head! If you are going to have such a ridiculous statement in your sig you might want to get the spelling correct The spelling might be wrong, but the statement reflects Hondas problems today! The VFR problems are the tip of the iceberg, they are having quality control problems that are appaling, like crankshafts out of balance on ATV's, Bad clutches on ATV's and dirt bikes, valve train failures on the new titanium systems, Gold Wing frames cracking, etc. I have been a big Honda fan for as long as I have been involved in the motorcycle industry (20+ years) But now I am having second thoughts. It is disturbing when a wrench at a dealer opens a crate with a new machine, and in it, he/she finds new parts to fix problems that the factory left in the bike at the time of shipping, so that it can now, be fixed and parked in the show room floor! My 2 cents. P.S. I plead the 5th. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tightwad Posted April 11, 2008 Share Posted April 11, 2008 HEY HONDA: Your Proctolgist called....I think they found your head! If you are going to have such a ridiculous statement in your sig you might want to get the spelling correct Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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