CandyRedRC46 Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Okay I finally found someone with the infamous full race erion system and he was gracious enough to let me take measurements of it and go for a ride. So I have a bunch of info to share now. First off I must say the fifth gens are great bikes! Awesome sound and feel. It doesnt feel quite as strong on the bottom below 4 or 5 thousand rpms but it is deffinetely not lacking in the midrange and top end. I didn't go flogging it, because its not my bike, but it felt great. The lack of low end could be attributed to the larger exhaust or the tuning, or the gearing, but his felt fine and who needs power below 5,000 rpms anyway. I am sure with a rapid bike and a good tune he could get it all back. After we took all the measurement while the muffler was off he took it around the block for shits and giggles, and all I could say was wow! It sounded like we were sitting front row at the moto gp races! Anyways here is all the info i could get and a couple of videos, because everyone likes videos! http://s574.photobucket.com/user/candyredrc46/media/F6AAA7AD-5F8F-4572-B3C2-F17929E4E417-7552-000005001A11924E_zps83a4879c.mp4.html http://s574.photobucket.com/user/candyredrc46/media/802FE11A-0FEA-4D6D-8E46-AC3F9BC0CF73-7597-00000503662117C7_zps3a8c3b4b.mp4.html http://s574.photobucket.com/user/candyredrc46/media/5512A811-B92D-49FB-982E-A3148CEEFF95-7597-00000506A138C74C_zps1c8a6ca9.mp4.html http://s574.photobucket.com/user/candyredrc46/media/66434416-AD53-454B-9D37-7109E4398D33-7597-00000504C013C816_zps532274e6.mp4.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer CornerCarver Posted May 31, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted May 31, 2013 Interesting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandyRedRC46 Posted May 31, 2013 Author Share Posted May 31, 2013 What i want to do is have a header built that has the following specs primaries with 35mm i.d. tappering out to 38mm with a length of about 28 inches and make sure they are all equal length. (the motad primaries are way off.) then put the front 2 together and the rear two together after 28 inches and have y pipes of 38mm x2 in and 42mm out and then have a final y pipe of 42mm i.d. x2 in and 48mm i.d. out at the collector. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baileyrock Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 My old Two Bros Full system also had huge dia pipes compared to stock and I noticed low end power loss also. My 00 dynoed at 105 hp with 2 bro and K&N. For drivability I would use smaller tube dia's. Stock 00-09 (w/cat)were 41mm and 98-99 (catless)were 43mm. Measured O.D. BR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandyRedRC46 Posted May 31, 2013 Author Share Posted May 31, 2013 I don't know where those numbers of 41mm and 43mm came from, because I have heard that too, but they are way off. I think somewhere along the line the header primary diameters were mixed up with the fork diameters of the 5th and 6th gens. I measured both exhausts this morning with a digital caliper and the motad primaries have an outer diameter ranging from (33.98-35.56)mm while the erion race header has primaries with an outer diameter ranging from (37.92-40.5)mm. basically the i.d. ranges from 35mm's to 38mm's. the erion race header has a wall thickness of 0.050 inch (1.23mm) anyways i am more than willing to sacrifice a little power below 5000 rpms for more power up top. i rode the vfr with the full race exhaust and it was not that bad and still wasn't even tuned. vtec, some ignition advance and proper tuning will more than make up for the little power loss on the bottom. it will be okay. by the way, the hrc race kit exhaust for the rc45 has primaries of 38mm the whole way through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baileyrock Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 You are correct Sir!I get an avg. 31.5mm on the Cat equipped pipes and 34.5 on the non-Cat pipes. That just sounded too small so I probably did exactly what you said and thought of fork size.So Fork Off! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandyRedRC46 Posted June 1, 2013 Author Share Posted June 1, 2013 lol thanks. but you are not the first to say that. i heard that around here so much that, that is what i thought they were too until i measured it myself. anyways thanks for the specs on the catted header, as i still didnt have those :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer vfrcapn Posted June 1, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted June 1, 2013 Cool comparison, except the 2nd vid gave me a serious case of vertigo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandyRedRC46 Posted June 1, 2013 Author Share Posted June 1, 2013 so looks like the primaries on the: vtec headers are 31.5mm (average) catless headers are 34.5mm (average) and race headers are 40.5mm (peak) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer vfrcapn Posted June 1, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted June 1, 2013 I'm planning to do an oil change this weekend and can post the TBros header dia for comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandyRedRC46 Posted June 1, 2013 Author Share Posted June 1, 2013 thanks capn i would really appreciate that! if you could get the diameters of the primaries, secondaries and collector that would be awesome and maybe the lengths before merging too? :) so would anyone happen to have one of these headers that they wouldnt mind selling? or perhaps know of anyone that might be coerced with some cash money? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer CornerCarver Posted June 1, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted June 1, 2013 I have one that I will be mounting next week or the week after (depending on delivery schedule to Timmy). Before I mount it I am testing the bike as it sits (98 header, Wolf exhaust, PCII) then I will swap the header at the dyno shop (got approval when we dropped Tall carvers 3rd gen for a carb rejet/dyno tune late last week) and retesting with the TBR header connected to the wolf. The shop doesn't want to tune with the PCII. I also have a PCIII but may just remove the PCII and run stock map. IF the TBR header losses too much in the mid range for my tastes I may sell it. I have the complete system, header and TBR silencer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandyRedRC46 Posted June 1, 2013 Author Share Posted June 1, 2013 okay good luck with everything. thanks for the input. if you do not want it, i am willing to pay a pretty penny for it if you would be willing to sell it to me. any tips on how to find these? i am having really bad luck finding one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer YoshiHNS Posted June 1, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted June 1, 2013 You have to know someone who has one, pretty much. Especially for the 98+ systems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer KevCarver Posted June 1, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted June 1, 2013 I have dibs if he doesn't want it! ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandyRedRC46 Posted June 1, 2013 Author Share Posted June 1, 2013 haha bullshit perham its mine Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer YoshiHNS Posted June 1, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted June 1, 2013 I think what we need here is a good ole fashion indian leg wrestle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer vfrcapn Posted June 2, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted June 2, 2013 I have one that I will be mounting next week or the week after (depending on delivery schedule to Timmy). Before I mount it I am testing the bike as it sits (98 header, Wolf exhaust, PCII) then I will swap the header at the dyno shop (got approval when we dropped Tall carvers 3rd gen for a carb rejet/dyno tune late last week) and retesting with the TBR header connected to the wolf. The shop doesn't want to tune with the PCII. I also have a PCIII but may just remove the PCII and run stock map. IF the TBR header losses too much in the mid range for my tastes I may sell it. I have the complete system, header and TBR silencer. Really interested to see those numbers when you get them. BTW, the TBros header has a different outlet position/angle from the OEM, are you fabbing up a new mid-pipe for the Wolf? I have the high mount Tbros, can't definitively speak to the low mount, but the high mount system leaves the oem or any standard aftermarket bolt on pipe hanging out about 30 degrees and much too low. Wouldn't be a big deal for dyno testing with any other pipe but I know with the Wolf the mid-pipe needs to line up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer sa1713 Posted June 2, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted June 2, 2013 I have one that I will be mounting next week or the week after (depending on delivery schedule to Timmy). Before I mount it I am testing the bike as it sits (98 header, Wolf exhaust, PCII) then I will swap the header at the dyno shop (got approval when we dropped Tall carvers 3rd gen for a carb rejet/dyno tune late last week) and retesting with the TBR header connected to the wolf. The shop doesn't want to tune with the PCII. I also have a PCIII but may just remove the PCII and run stock map. IF the TBR header losses too much in the mid range for my tastes I may sell it. I have the complete system, header and TBR silencer. Really interested to see those numbers when you get them. BTW, the TBros header has a different outlet position/angle from the OEM, are you fabbing up a new mid-pipe for the Wolf? I have the high mount Tbros, can't definitively speak to the low mount, but the high mount system leaves the oem or any standard aftermarket bolt on pipe hanging out about 30 degrees and much too low. Wouldn't be a big deal for dyno testing with any other pipe but I know with the Wolf the mid-pipe needs to line up. I experienced the same outlet issue with regards to not only the TBR header but also the Erion. I've had both side by side and the outlets are not in the OEM location. Not an issue for me as I had my underseat fabbed to match. If you are adding the header (TBR/ERION) to an OEM can/underseat, be ready for an up pipe modification/fabrication. I sourced my TBR due to metal (SS) and engine mod options. I chucked it up on my polishing lathe and it still looks sweet. I did have the inside ceramic coated for added heat dispersion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MOTAD Posted June 3, 2013 Share Posted June 3, 2013 and dont forget- Motad pipes are designed for road use so we are working with primary and secondary lengths to make sure power is good throughout the range- and especially low down. a race system is going to focus more on top end- even sacrificing bottom end power- the only time a race rider will use 3000 rpm is on the way back to the paddock after the race is finished Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandyRedRC46 Posted June 3, 2013 Author Share Posted June 3, 2013 Yup that is fine. I have got plenty of low end to spare and I am looking forward to gaining some peak hp. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandyRedRC46 Posted June 4, 2013 Author Share Posted June 4, 2013 I have a lead on a Two Brothers full system. Does any one want my Motad header and/or Two Brothers slip on? I am going to put them in the classifieds after I get the full system mounted up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer sa1713 Posted June 5, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted June 5, 2013 Is it mild or stainless steel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandyRedRC46 Posted June 5, 2013 Author Share Posted June 5, 2013 everything is stainless. mild steel is a bad idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer CornerCarver Posted June 5, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted June 5, 2013 everything is stainless. mild steel is a bad idea. maybe so but they offered the headers in both sus and mild steel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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