Member Contributer Rob916 Posted February 3, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted February 3, 2016 Hi all, first time happened about a week ago, start bike, idle starts to go up for a split second as normal then dips straight back down to below 1000rpm, PGM-FI light flashes twice every 3 or so seconds, continues for roughly 30 odd seconds till the bike cuts out. (PGM-FI orange one, looks like a motor, right side) if i try to re-start straight away, it wil not start at all. if i turn the key off, then back on, starts up fine, idle's properly. run's properly while riding, no problems what so ever. 1st visit to honda last week, they only found a ABS anomaly and asked if i wheelied often, i replied no, never which is the truth !! they found no other anomaly when the bike was hooked up to their honda software.they told me to go home and see if it continues. 2nd visit to Honda this evening (20 min after it had did it again leaving work) and when hooked up, no anomaly detected, ( software see's my bikes id but does not see it as a vfr800, weird ) . so they kept the bike and loaned me a 2015 cbf1000 ( not my style but hey ) sometimes it does it morning and evening, sometimes just the evening. if i stop somewhere for a short while, it runs fine after too. Bike has almost 20 000kms. still under warranty till April this year, and it's a 2014. it's got an arrow end can with the db-killer in, and a techno-globe alarm, both since around 4000kms till now. i always fill up at the same station, and always put only 98 unleaded in; as the euro french manuel advises. the battery is in good health and is hooked up to an optimate if i know i will not be riding for more than 2 days. one of the Honda mechanics said it could be (i'm translating from french here, not sure what the english equivilent is) atmospheric pressure sensor in the fuel injection . so we'll see what happens, will keep you updated. take care . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer windyrun Posted February 3, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted February 3, 2016 What does wheelying often have to do with anything :)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Grum Posted February 3, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted February 3, 2016 Hi Rob. Sorry to hear of your bike issues. From the little info I have of the PGM-FI, two short flashes of the MIL (Malfunction Indicator Lamp) followed by a pause indicates a MAP (Manifold Absolute Pressure) Sensor problem. The MAP sensor is the atmospheric sensor your mechanic was talking about. Info States - MAP sensor performance problem. - Loose connection or damage of the MAP sensor vacuum hose. - Faulty MAP sensor. Also as your MIL lamp has been flashing there should be a stored DTC (Diagnostic Trouble Code) that can provide additional info to Honda when they connect their diagnostic equipment to your bike. As this is a warranty issue, let the Honda people sort it out for you. Otherwise I'd be looking at the 4 into 1 vacuum hoses from the starter valves to the MAP sensor, and ensuring the electrical connector to the MAP sensor are all O.K. It certainly sounds like the symptoms a faulty or intermittent MAP sensor could cause, perhaps it should just be replaced on spec then see how it performs, this is the only way to completely isolate the MAP sensor. Hope this helps a little, please keep us informed with what Honda find. Good Luck Rob. Cheers. Grum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Grum Posted February 17, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted February 17, 2016 Hi Rob. Any news on your bike issues? Its been a while, hope Honda have got it all sorted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rob916 Posted February 19, 2016 Author Member Contributer Share Posted February 19, 2016 Hi All, hey Grum, thanks for the input . will try to make this as short as possible . Got the bike back last week, after honda tried without sucess for 3 days to re-produce the error . (still nothing showed in the sofware as an error) they said they had cleand up connections and i should see if it is ok . Did the same thing to me 4 times in a row, took it back end of last week for the 4th time, they kept it till today and said the cleaned up some pipes and change the map sensor. (they put my map sensor in a brand new vfr and tried for 3 days to see if it would do anything, it worked normally ) They were still not able to re-produce the error before changing the sensor. And asked me to try it again for another week . Honda France is stumped, they have never seen this type of error on a vfr . After the second time i got a video of the fault, ( i did show it to the mechanics at the time who did not seem that interested ) Showed it to the owner of the Honda dealer today and he was very interested and asked for me to send it to him . So, we'll see next week what happens . it is supposed to rain here the whole week, so yipee doo !!!!!! will be looking like a drowned rat very soon . Will keep you all posted, take care . rob . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Grum Posted February 23, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted February 23, 2016 Hi Rob. This is becoming very interesting. Its starting to sound like an ECM (Engine Control Module) issue!!! If you are still getting the same 2 pulse code on the MIL this should be storing an error code in the ECM and provided your service people are using the Honda diagnostic equipment then there SHOULD be an error code they could identify. It appears this fault occurs when cold and then turning the ignition off then on the fault disappears, this would definitely do some form of reset/re-initialise to the ECM. It doesn't sound like a wiring fault as when riding with the added vibration you don't have an issue, you would also expect it to be more random if it was a wiring issue. It is important to note that the ECM provides the MAP sensor and virtually all other sensors with their supply voltage and signal ground. The MAP sensor has now been replaced and the fault is still there. If "Honda France is stumped" they should be seeking the best tech advice from Japan to minimise further delays for you. With all that stated I'd be surprised if Honda don't suggest an ECM replacement. Keep us informed Rob as we can all learn a lot from this issue. Hope Honda have you back on the road ASAP. Cheers. Grum. P.S. Rob - Have you tried electrically disconnecting your " techno - globe alarm" I know you have had this on the bike for a long time, however you never know if it might be glitching the ECM on occasions during power up. Be worth a try to run the bike for a while with it disconnected. Might be as simple as just removing a fuse if its got one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rob916 Posted February 28, 2016 Author Member Contributer Share Posted February 28, 2016 Hi all, Went great for 3 days, evening of the 4th day it did it again . :( The honda dealer has sent my video to Honda france and asked me to await further instructions . The dealer did try all to do with the alarm and said it had nothing to do with it . here's the vid . P.S. i did not touch the accelerator, bike's doing it all itself . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Cogswell Posted February 28, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted February 28, 2016 It would seem that the ECU flashing the M.I.L. and yet not storing a code should be telling them something. It appears that the low tire pressure warning is active. Is that a false indication (or does it go out like the abs light once the bike's rolling)? If so possibly another clue. It will be interesting to see how this comes out. Best of luck with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rob916 Posted February 28, 2016 Author Member Contributer Share Posted February 28, 2016 Hi cogswell, it's actually the TC traction control and abs lights, they both go off when rolling . :) all normal . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer fink Posted February 28, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted February 28, 2016 Have you tried turning up the idle speed at all? What code is the engine light flashing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Grum Posted February 28, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted February 28, 2016 Have you tried turning up the idle speed at all? What code is the engine light flashing? Hi fink.Its all in the previous postings - the two flashes are indicating a MAP sensor fault and this has apparently been replaced by the Honda dealership. Also Idle speed is a mechanical setting. Why would the bike suddenly reset to normal idle operations with no error codes after the ignition switch is cycled? Rob's fault seems to be a highly intermittent fault, doesn't seem indicative of idle speed setting to me. Reckon a real close inspection of the two ECM electrical connectors should be done, but thats up to Honda! Good Luck Rob - Hope you get an answer real soon. Keep Us Posted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer fink Posted February 29, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted February 29, 2016 Has the vacum hose been checked ? It's always worth trying it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rob916 Posted March 12, 2016 Author Member Contributer Share Posted March 12, 2016 Not sure if the vacum hose was checked, ( not sure what that is to be honest :/ ) all i can say is that now every time i fill up it is very difficult to open the fuel cap ( it's sucked down) and opens with a suction noise and effect !! a little scary ....... and it is has not done it for 4 days straight !!!!! way too weird for my liking, thinking of trading it in for a 7th gen vfr12 . :/ anyways, waiting for Honda to advise . rob . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 A vacuum hose is pinched. Possibly the tank landed on it when put back down, or otherwise a bad routing of a hose when things were put back together. The tank may not be venting properly which generates the suction. DANGER: The engine will stop when you have ridden a certain amount of time and excessive vacuum builds and prevents the fuel from flowing. You should not ride until the pinched hose is fixed. No problem is fatal. The issue will be identified and fixed. You should only switch bikes if you truly want that 1200. But don't do it out of frustration...yet. And remember that people here are rooting for you and will help in any way they can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rob916 Posted March 12, 2016 Author Member Contributer Share Posted March 12, 2016 ok, now i'm scared !! for real . thanks for the info Knight . shall call the dealer, again ........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted March 12, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted March 12, 2016 It would seem that the ECU flashing the M.I.L. and yet not storing a code should be telling them something. It appears that the low tire pressure warning is active. Is that a false indication (or does it go out like the abs light once the bike's rolling)? If so possibly another clue. It will be interesting to see how this comes out. Best of luck with it. Me too ECU ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Grum Posted March 13, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted March 13, 2016 HI Rob. I've had the high vacuum issue with my tank once, the vacuum was so strong I thought I was going to break my key in trying to open the filler cap. You will either have a pinched breather hose as Knight stated (one of the three hoses that ends up at the bottom of your bike) ,OR as I did, a suspected jammed small one way valve thats inside your filler cap. The valve allows for positive pressure to build in your tank but never negative (unless its jammed). Have a very good look for a pinched tank vent hose, failing that, remove your filler cap from the tank, there are 5 allen head screws, open your filler cap and you will see only 3 of these screws hold the filler cap in position just remove these 3 the other 2 are dummies. With the filler cap removed undo the centre Phillips head screw to access the one way valve and spring, give the valve and seat a squirt of WD40 then reassemble. While the filler cap is removed have a good look at the vent line for any obstructions, you should also be able to freely blow air through the tank vent hole and feel the air exiting from one of the bottom three hoses under your bike. Its an easy thing to do, I've had no further reoccurrence of the problem since doing this about 6 months ago. It does sound like the last time Honda worked on your bike they have most likley pinched the hose causing this issue, so they can sort this one out easily for you. Hope this helps Rob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rob916 Posted March 26, 2016 Author Member Contributer Share Posted March 26, 2016 Hi again, Yip it was a vacum hose pintched, they sorted it . Problem seems to be gone, it has been 3 or so weeks and it has not done it once . Unfortunately i will not have any more time to see if it comes back, i have traded her in . i have too little money to have all the bikes i crave, ( and not enough garge space "yet" ) so my Honda dealer made me a very very good offer for a low milage 2015 zzr1400 and i took it, going Tuesday morning to swop. (there were no vfr1200's in the area and it was a one time offer) insurance is exacly the same crazy system !! So this is goodbye for now . Thanks again for all the help, this site is Superb !! i'll be hanging around just because i'm addicted. take care all, Rob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Grum Posted March 26, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted March 26, 2016 Hi again, Yip it was a vacum hose pintched, they sorted it . Problem seems to be gone, it has been 3 or so weeks and it has not done it once . Unfortunately i will not have any more time to see if it comes back, i have traded her in . i have too little money to have all the bikes i crave, ( and not enough garge space "yet" ) so my Honda dealer made me a very very good offer for a low milage 2015 zzr1400 and i took it, going Tuesday morning to swop. (there were no vfr1200's in the area and it was a one time offer) insurance is exacly the same crazy system !! So this is goodbye for now . Thanks again for all the help, this site is Superb !! i'll be hanging around just because i'm addicted. take care all, Rob. Bonsoir Mon Ami.Very sad to see you go Rob. Sad they didn't finally sort out your VFR issues. Good luck with your new rocket ship zzr1400, go easy on the throttle!!! Cheers. Grum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rob916 Posted March 26, 2016 Author Member Contributer Share Posted March 26, 2016 Will do Grum, thanks again !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crni Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 I think i might have the same issue. https://youtu.be/jBAgi08msmI Have you ever got any answers from the dealership on how they solved the problem? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjb1019 Posted October 26, 2016 Share Posted October 26, 2016 On 26/03/2016 at 6:29 AM, Rob916 said: Yip it was a vacum hose pintched, they sorted it . Problem seems to be gone, it has been 3 or so weeks and it has not done it once . Crni, see above. If your issue is being caused by the same thing, then you need to lift the tank and check the routing of the vacuum hoses, or take it to a dealer and have them sort it. Edit: just watched the video where you say the hoses were checked... Cold idle speed set incorrectly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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