makenzie71 Posted January 30, 2016 Author Share Posted January 30, 2016 well then. I swapped in some new NGK plugs and she idled fine for 15 minutes. Still revved just fine at the end. I'm going to spend some time this afternoon putting her around and see how she handles. Not sure if you are able to check colour of the spark while you have the plugs out but a weak orange one is not good , white or bright blue is best . I didn't bother to check. At $3 a pop and knowing I've kind of abused the ones in there in the last year, it's a small thing to just replace them and see what new plugs do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer gmtech94 Posted January 30, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted January 30, 2016 So glad you made some progress with this . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makenzie71 Posted January 30, 2016 Author Share Posted January 30, 2016 Okay not resolved. Went out to have another go. Exact same problem. I cleared the codes last night to get rid of the four clogged injector codes and then again this morning...after checking what I could of the MAP sensor it flagged a bad connection with it. No, once this problem starts, my FI lights on. It's comes on and off while running. But when I go to check for a code I get nothing. I tried driving around. Once it starts acting up I got no power, FI light is on, lots of bucking and backfiring and stalling. Couldn't even go up the slight slope of my driveway. This is starting to really irk me. What else can cause this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Cogswell Posted January 30, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted January 30, 2016 ' . . . FI lights on. It's comes on and off while running.' If this is to say the problem is intermittent (post 26 seemed to indicate you had it running good for a while), it would seem to me to be electrical. Sounds like you've confirmed the grounds. Might be a good idea to closely inspect the wiring for fraying, splits, chafing, etc. Also suspect could be the connectors - wiggle each wire where they enter a connector to see if the condition either stops or can be induced. Then separate each one and apply Oxgard on the pins for the best possible connection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makenzie71 Posted January 30, 2016 Author Share Posted January 30, 2016 I just went over all of the harness I could wiggling connectors and checking for breaks and couldn't find anything. I guess I'm going to have to completely unwrap it and start from scratch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makenzie71 Posted January 31, 2016 Author Share Posted January 31, 2016 So I'm still entertaining the idea of it being temperature related. I know that when the bike is cold it'll be running a "cold circuit". A little more fuel in the mix until temps rise. I know that after the engine is shut off for a moment, and fired back up, the ECM will be running on that cold circuit until it gets all it's information in. If I disconnect the coolant temperature sensor, the ECM will just assume a cold engine and stay on the rich circuit, right? Or does it go straight to the hot circuit? Would I need to remove the sensor to test this theory? I still can't help but think it's temperature related. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makenzie71 Posted February 1, 2016 Author Share Posted February 1, 2016 Okay so I'm no longer convinced it's temperature related. I just went out to move the buggy and it was acting up almost immediately. Plus, it's 40*f out so if it were overheating I should have had more time than that. It wasn't backfiring so much this time as it was just not idling, low power, and stalls. FI light was when it started struggling, but if I gassed it the light would go off. Still no codes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer HighSideNZ Posted February 1, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted February 1, 2016 Sorry, but it sounds like fuel to me! You mentioned in one post that you had to clear codes for blocked injectors!!! Have you had a bad dose of fuel? I'd be checking the fuel pump delivery Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makenzie71 Posted February 1, 2016 Author Share Posted February 1, 2016 Yeah a clogged filter caused that one quite a long time ago and I never cleared it. Now I have 36~40psi all the way up to the fuel rail. It never drops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer HighSideNZ Posted February 1, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted February 1, 2016 Have you checked the injector delivery? Are they actually passing enough fuel or cutting out when they get hot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makenzie71 Posted February 2, 2016 Author Share Posted February 2, 2016 I don't know how to check that but would love to give it a try. Of course the engine started stumbling almost straight away last evening. If the injectors don't flow enough to fire properly, wouldn't the FI light trigger a clogged injector like it did when I plugged my filter up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Vee-Ef-Ar Posted February 2, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted February 2, 2016 It's a fifth gen 800. Choke cable is disconnected. Have you tried adjusting the choke (it's a plate that connects to all the starter valves) manually while trying to get it idling? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight Posted February 2, 2016 Share Posted February 2, 2016 It's a fifth gen 800. Choke cable is disconnected.Have you tried adjusting the choke (it's a plate that connects to all the starter valves) manually while trying to get it idling? To be clear, while the manual calls it a choke, it is not a choke. Adjusting the lever does not affect how it starts or runs. The valve circuit is a fast idle which acts exactly like the throttle does. Once the bike is started, the valve circuit is used as a throttle to increase RPMs to warm it up, but it is the ECU that adjusts the mixture based on temperature, so we could call the ECU the choke piece. You did hit on something though Vee: Up to 4% throttle the starter valves should be moving with the throttle. Mak, based on the cable disconnect, does turning the throttle still move the starter valves? I did not mention this because from your posts it sounded like there was no change in setup from before the problem until now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Vee-Ef-Ar Posted February 2, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted February 2, 2016 It's a fifth gen 800. Choke cable is disconnected.Have you tried adjusting the choke (it's a plate that connects to all the starter valves) manually while trying to get it idling? To be clear, while the manual calls it a choke, it is not a choke. Adjusting the lever does not affect how it starts or runs. The valve circuit is a fast idle which acts exactly like the throttle does. Once the bike is started, the valve circuit is used as a throttle to increase RPMs to warm it up, but it is the ECU that adjusts the mixture based on temperature, so we could call the ECU the choke piece. You did hit on something though Vee: Up to 4% throttle the starter valves should be moving with the throttle. Mak, based on the cable disconnect, does turning the throttle still move the starter valves? I did not mention this because from your posts it sounded like there was no change in setup from before the problem until now. Pretty sure the starter valves are separate from the throttle. I call it choke, cause it easier than typing fast idle lever... Anyway, adjusting the lever does affect the starting and idling. In fact, when you adjust the idle screw, you are actually adjusting the fast idle plate that connects the starter valves. When starting or idling, the throttle bodies remain closed with the engine getting its air from the starter valves. I wasn't aware the starter valves moved when using the throttle. Where does that info and the 4% come from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Terry Posted February 2, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted February 2, 2016 Your description of the starter valve operation is correct VFR; there is no connection to the throttle. However for Makenzie his bike won't run properly at any revs not just idle, so I'd say the starter valves aren't such a likely cause. Also the fault came/comes on suddenly, so less likely to be related to the SVs as these wouldn't change much or at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight Posted February 3, 2016 Share Posted February 3, 2016 So sorry for misleading! Yes there is no mechanical connection between the throttle and starter valves. I traced it back to a blog I read when I first got my bike and before I got here. Terry thanks for correcting me. Duh. I wish at these times the forum had a payment, like Hail Mary's or such where I can buy myself out of stupidity. The 4% comes second hand from Honda techs. Due to the relation of the volume of air through the starter valves vs. the butterflies, at 0-4% throttle the starter valve tuning has a significant impact on the engine performance. Once the volume of air from the butterflies significantly exceeds the starter valve flow (5% throttle), the valves no longer have an effect. This explains why if the starter valves are out of synch, at partial throttle cruise there can be a dramatic engine shake, but applying slightly more throttle and beginning to accelerate, the shake completely goes away. Just a minor clarification Vee: I meant the user lever doesn't affect startup, tune, or mixture. Once the valves are synched and idle adjusted, the user level just opens the circuit up. So the OPs bike would not start or run any differently if he had the lever hooked up and used it to increase RPM. It has the same effect as the throttle, letting in air. I would however be open to suggestion that the ECU knows the lever position and adjusts mixture. I have assumed (bad thing to do) that cold mixture is only affected by temperature sensors (??). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
makenzie71 Posted February 11, 2016 Author Share Posted February 11, 2016 FYI: I ended up yanking the full harness off and stripping it down. I found a lot of water. What I imagine is that during our last snowstorm snow and ice managed to get into the harness, and as it melted deeper into the wires it started causing shorts and general mayhem. I now have a lot of the unnecessary components removed from the harness and 75" of it is located in a weatherproof box. Problem solved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Terry Posted February 11, 2016 Member Contributer Share Posted February 11, 2016 Glad to hear of your success Makenzie, and thank you for posting the resolution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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