PACIFICMAN Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 On the new to me '07 the spec for the oil has changed to 10w30. I assume this is for better fuel mileage due to less windage in the crankcase. Am I correct in this or am I missing something? I have not noticed an increase in MPG, however, I have not ridden that many miles, yet. As was mentioned by another on here the fuel tank on this bike is more labor intensive to top up, not sure why. Anyway, any thoughts on the oil spec? I intend to stick with my 4,000 mile oil changes and use the Bosch 3323 "large" filters for 3 changes each. Any thoughts on this? Thanks in advance for any advice or suggestions... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer BusyLittleShop Posted June 6, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted June 6, 2015 I choose 30 because it gives the right flow at the normal operatingtemperature of 212ºF of the engine and that would be the viscosity of10 at operating temps... so that means for every 1000 rpms increaseMr.RC45's oil pressure increases another 10 psi... a 30w flows moreoil at higher rpms which flows more oil between the critical bearingswhich carries away more heat and I'm not wasting HP just pumping oilthrough the blow off valve...0w30 psi1000 102000 203000 304000 405000 506000 607000 708000 809000 9010000 9911000 99 blow off by the pressure relief valve0w401000 122000 243000 364000 485000 726000 847000 968000 99 blow off by the pressure relief valve9000 9910000 9911000 9915W50 psi1000 152000 303000 454000 605000 756000 907000 99 blow off by the pressure relief valve8000 999000 9910000 9911000 99 Quote Mobil 1 on the viscosity of their synthetic 0 30 weight oil:Temperature ( F )....Viscosity Flow212ºF..........................10 (operating)104ºF..........................56 (start up)32ºF..........................100 (estimate) Mr.RC45 Oil Press Gauge shows the problem with oil... it doesn't wantto flow when its cold this is 0w30 at 112º resisting at 18 psiThe same 0w30 at 203F Oil is flowing 10 psi perfect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spud786 Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 I have not noticed an increase in MPG,)))))))) yes your are talking a couple of tenths of a mile at most or nothing at all, that can be very hard to see. but the amount of metal light weight oils can shed, can easily be seen in a Uoa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PACIFICMAN Posted June 6, 2015 Author Share Posted June 6, 2015 So it helps the filter do its job? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spud786 Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 Larry's vfr motor sheds more metal in 700 miles than my Ktm 50 horse single cylinder dirtbike does, in 800 miles. His pictures are nice though But yes you need a really good filter to catch all that metal from using those thin weight car oils Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PACIFICMAN Posted June 6, 2015 Author Share Posted June 6, 2015 I'll use the Bosch. Is it unadvisable to go with 1 filter to 3 changes given the new oil? This method was suitable on my '02. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spud786 Posted June 6, 2015 Share Posted June 6, 2015 If the bike is past 10,000 miles, and using heavier weight oils, the filters normally run pretty clean, cause you aren't shedding as much metal as thinner weight oils. I normally do 2500/3000 mile oil change intervals, but normally don't change the filter till around 8,000 miles or so, doing the math that's about 3 oil changes on a filter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PACIFICMAN Posted June 6, 2015 Author Share Posted June 6, 2015 Cool. I'll stick with it. I'm going to my first change at 15,000. The PO had recently done a service prior to my purchase. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magsz Posted July 23, 2015 Share Posted July 23, 2015 Bumping an older topic as this seems relevant to the discussion. What about in extremely hot temperatures? It is routinely over 90 degrees here in South Florida so i was thinking 10W40 would be the way to go. Thoughts from the collective? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spud786 Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 I run 10w40 2 quarts and one 20w50 for longevity. That will hold up 3 or 4000 miles easily, and keep you in a 40 weight range. 30 weights and such shed too much metal for anything other than very short intervals, like sub 1000 miles. Run a normal uoa and watch the metal count pile up. Ive done several uoa's on the vfr, the heavier weight is definitely better with metal counts, and you'll appreciate to supreme motor when its well into its second odometer flip over. Ive yet to see a good uoa on a 30 weight, with a bike thats routinely hammered Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Magsz Posted July 24, 2015 Share Posted July 24, 2015 Done deal. 10W40 in hand already. I did a little bit more research on the forum and plenty of gents are going with 40 weight. Thanks guys! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer BusyLittleShop Posted July 25, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted July 25, 2015 Ive yet to see a good uoa on a 30 weight, with a bike thats routinely hammered Well Spud... you have to look beyond your small Texas town to find a good 30w UOA... just witness Blackstone Test results which shows good wear on a St1100 using a 30 weight... that's because a 30w gives superior flow at the normal operating temperature of 212ºF... a 30w flows more oil at higher rpms which flows more oil between the critical bearings which carries away more heat and you're not wasting HP just pumping oil through the blow off valve... Oil.............Mobil 1 15W50........Redline 15W50........Redline 15W50...Rotella 10W30 Filter...............Bosch 3423............PL14610.............PL14610.............PL14610 Total Miles....135,020................143,045................147,107................155,087 Miles on oil....7,970..................8,025..................12,087..................7,980 Time on Oil...6 Mo...................6 Mo.....................8 Mo.....................4 1/2 mo Make up oil......0........................0.....................0.........................0 . Aluminum......9.......................6........................18.........................10 Chromium..........1.....................0........................0........................0 Iron...........21.........................11........................15.......................12 Copper........5...........................5..........................7........................5 Lead..........7...........................13.........................16........................4 Tin...........1..........................3...........................1.............................2 Moly............80........................586.......................524....................61 Nickel......1..............................0.............................0.......................0 Manganese.0...........................0...........................0..........................0 Silver........0...........................0...........................0..........................0 Titanium......0.........................0...........................0.........................0 Potassium....1........................3...........................2...........................0 Boron.......53........................29..........................25..........................10 Silicon..........24.........................18.......................18.......................12 Sodium.........109....................39.........................46.........................16 Calcium.........2284......................2625....................2405....................2105 Magnesium....26.......................12........................11........................11 Phosphorus......994.......................1129....................987....................847 Zinc...............1186..................1326.....................1174.....................834 Barium............0......................0.........................0..........................0 Flashpoint F........400..................395.....................430.....................400 Fuel...................TR..................<.5.....................<.5.....................<.5 Antifreeze...........??..................... 0....................... 0.......................0 Water................0....................0........................0.........................0 Insoluables........0.2....................0.3......................0.2......................0.2 SUS Visc@210f....73.3....................88.0....................89.3....................62.5 cST Visc@100c......13.81..............17.50...................17.81....................10.93 TBN....................5.7..................4.5....................4.0......................4.4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spud786 Posted July 25, 2015 Share Posted July 25, 2015 An st1100 is just short of a gold wing, they do pretty good on anything and typically highway only models, or Putt Putt My vfr would destroy that rotella within in 1100 miles. apples and oranges really. But they look similar to car uoa's, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer BusyLittleShop Posted July 25, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted July 25, 2015 My vfr would destroy that rotella within in 1100 miles. apples and oranges really. Negative... your VFR would meet and exceed your mileage expectations on a 30W... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spud786 Posted July 26, 2015 Share Posted July 26, 2015 You'll never sell me on a 30 weight in a motorcycle that's heavily exercised. Ive already been there and didn't like the results. Heck you already have fans in this thread who've seen the not so great results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer tbzep Posted July 26, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted July 26, 2015 A fellow by the name of Scott (ScootR) used to frequent this board. He had to withdraw his membership and posts due to his employment with a certain Texas oil testing lab. Before they made him withdraw, he provided tons of oil test results and insights to the board. He said he'd never run anything less than 15w50 or 20w50 (at least in Texas) due to most motorcycles having 3-5% fuel dilution, shear, etc. As an example, GN4 10w40 was barely a 20 grade by the time it was time to change it and always had a lot of aluminum and iron in the test samples. He did say that a 10w50 might do for people that ride in cold weather if 15w50 or 20w50 caused valve clacking at startup. Some of the new 20 and 30 weight synthetics may not shear much, but they will still drop considerably due to fuel dilution. I'm not sure if anyone here works for an oil company or tests oils for a living, so I just thought I'd remind the veteran members that we once had one that shared a lot of knowledge with us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted July 26, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted July 26, 2015 Thanks for the info !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer BusyLittleShop Posted July 26, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted July 26, 2015 You'll never sell me on a 30 weight in a motorcycle that's heavily exercised. Ive already been there and didn't like the results. I know nothing will sell you on a 30 weight even when faced with factual evidence to the contrary... I don't know why but given a choice Texans are spring loaded to 50 weights even though no one has worn out their VFR running a 30 or 40 weight... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer BusyLittleShop Posted July 26, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted July 26, 2015 A fellow by the name of Scott (ScootR) used to frequent this board. I loved debating Scott on the subject of oil... after 2 years of back and forth he finally revealed the tons of oil test data was actually for Diesels Trucks and stationary Industrial engines and no test data was ever established on an actual motorcycle engine because the test was very expensive and no manufacture would ante up... If Scott had actually tested his theory that a 50wt gives the best wear protection he might have found out that its not true like this Engineer did... (Quote Rat 540 on viscosity versus wear) * 20 wt oils rank between number 22 and 140. .* 30 wt oils rank between number 1 and 151. .* 40 wt oils rank between number 45 and 139. .* 50 wt oils rank between number 15 and 148. . * So, as you can see, oil viscosity plays no particular role in an oil’s wear protection capability. As mentioned above, an oil’s wear protection capability is determined by its base oil and its additive package “as a whole”, with the primary emphasis on the additive package, which contains the extreme pressure anti-wear components. (End of quote) In conclusion... Whether an owner chooses a 30 or 40 or 50 weight oil each viscosity will meet and exceed their mileage expectations... the difference is running a 50 will cost you 6 horsepower versus running a 30 and running a 40 will cost you 3 horsepower versus a 30 weight... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer gmtech94 Posted July 26, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted July 26, 2015 When I raced we were sponsored by an oil company and helped with the research of their product .The thought at the time was to run 20w50 race oil to provide for the best lubrication under racing conditions hence no oil related failures . After many races and a lot of real data research the conclusion was in this case to run a 10w30 oil as it provided better lubrication and less engine wear over a long period of time ,remember endurance racing in 24 and 30 hour races . Although we never had an engine failure due to oil properties we did have a lot of feedback on engine wear as well as transmission and clutch wear . I have to say we did abuse these bikes on occasion with spinning the back wheel to turn the bike as well as the occasional fall .The ignition was a weak link but I could change out the pulsers in about 17 seconds once the bike was in the pits . In conclusion 10w30 ran cooler and did not break down as much as the thicker oils did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer tbzep Posted July 26, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted July 26, 2015 To be perfectly honest, I've used Mobil 1 15w50 synthetic because it gives me a smooth buttery shift longer than any other that I've tried. I doubt I'll ever wear out a motor regardless of whether I use 30, 40 or 50, which is why I said I'm not going to argue over the topic. I'm more than open to hear about something that will give me buttery shifts for 4,000 miles like Mobil 1 15w50. However, I'm not going to pay $20 for a quart of fancy oil when I can get a 5 quart jug of Mobil 15w50 for the same price. BLS, are you running the green cap Mobil 1 0w30? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spud786 Posted July 27, 2015 Share Posted July 27, 2015 My vfr would destroy that rotella within in 1100 miles. apples and oranges really. Negative... your VFR would meet and exceed your mileage expectations on a 30W... Well, Im still waiting to see yours, your metal count should look hideous with a full oci with your 0w30 car oil , not this 6 or 700 mile stuff. but run it several thousand miles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer BusyLittleShop Posted July 27, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted July 27, 2015 BLS, are you running the green cap Mobil 1 0w30? I decided to test whether a motorcycle specific oil produced better numbers than a Passenger Car Motor Oil (PCMO)... Selected were Asmoil MCT 10w30 and Mobil 1 AFE 0w30... granted the miles are low but they are miles not in moderation either more like tracks speeds which simulates the distant my customers cover in a year of racing or track days... my customers are usually consummate riders with 85K in spare cash to afford to own any exotic homologated racer they desire from the Golden Years of World Superbikes or a Desmosedici... The wear and shear slightly favored the Mobil 1 but the real difference was cost Amsoil was $64.75 OCI @ $12.95 qt Mobil 1 was $27 OCI @ $5.40 qt... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer BusyLittleShop Posted July 27, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted July 27, 2015 Well, Im still waiting to see yours, your metal count should look hideous with a full oci with your 0w30 car oil , not this 6 or 700 mile stuff. but run it several thousand miles. Keep reading and you'll learn that Thin is In... Thick is Out... Quote Engineer 540Rat THE BENEFITS OF USING THINNER OIL: • Thinner oil flows quicker at cold start-up to begin lubricating critical engine components much more quickly than thicker oil can. Most engine wear takes place during cold start-up before oil flow can reach all the components. So, quicker flowing thinner oil will help reduce start-up engine wear, which is actually reducing wear overall. • The more free flowing thinner oil at cold start-up, is also much less likely to cause the oil filter bypass to open up, compared to thicker oil. Of course if the bypass opened up, that would allow unfiltered oil to be pumped through the engine. The colder the ambient temperature, and the more rpm used when the engine is cold, the more important this becomes. • Thinner oil also flows more at normal operating temperatures. And oil FLOW is lubrication, but oil pressure is NOT lubrication. Oil pressure is only a measurement of resistance to flow. Running thicker oil just to up the oil pressure is the wrong thing to do, because that only reduces oil flow/lubrication. Oil pressure in and of itself, is NOT what we are after. • The more free flowing thinner oil will also drain back to the oil pan quicker than thicker oil. So, thinner oil can help maintain a higher oil level in the oil pan during operation, which keeps the oil pump pickup from possibly sucking air during braking and cornering. • The old rule of thumb that we should have at least 10 psi for every 1,000 rpm is perfectly fine. Running thicker oil to achieve more pressure than that, will simply reduce oil flow for no good reason. It is best to run the thinnest oil we can, that will still maintain at least the rule of thumb oil pressure. And one of the benefits of running a high volume oil pump, is that it will allow us to enjoy all the benefits of running thinner oil, while still maintaining sufficient oil pressure. A high volume oil pump/thinner oil combo is preferred over running a standard volume oil pump/thicker oil combo. Because oil “flow” is our goal for ideal oiling, NOT simply high oil pressure. • Oil flow is what carries heat away from internal engine components. Those engine components are DIRECTLY oil cooled, but only INdirectly water cooled. And better flowing thinner oil will keep critical engine components cooler because it carries heat away faster. If you run thicker oil than needed, you will drive up engine component temps. For example: Plain bearings, such as rod and main bearings are lubricated by oil flow, not by oil pressure. Oil pressure is NOT what keeps these parts separated. Oil pressure serves only to supply the oil to this interface. The parts are kept apart by the incompressible hydrodynamic liquid oil wedge that is formed as the liquid oil is pulled in between the spinning parts. As long as sufficient oil is supplied, no wear can occur. In addition to this, the flow of oil through the bearings is what cools them. Thicker oil DOES NOT automatically provide better wear protection than thinner oils. Extensive “dynamic wear testing under load” of over 130 motor oils, has shown that the base oil and its additive package “as a whole”, is what determines an oil’s wear protection capability, NOT its viscosity. For example, some 5W30 oils have proven to provide OUTSTANDING wear protection, while some 15W50 oils have only been able to provide MODEST wear protection. So, do not run thicker oil under the false assumption that it can provide better wear protection for our engines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer BusyLittleShop Posted July 27, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted July 27, 2015 When I raced we were sponsored by an oil company and helped with the research of their product .The thought at the time was to run 20w50 race oil to provide for the best lubrication under racing conditions hence no oil related failures . After many races and a lot of real data research the conclusion was in this case to run a 10w30 oil as it provided better lubrication and less engine wear over a long period of time ,remember endurance racing in 24 and 30 hour races . Although we never had an engine failure due to oil properties we did have a lot of feedback on engine wear as well as transmission and clutch wear . I have to say we did abuse these bikes on occasion with spinning the back wheel to turn the bike as well as the occasional fall .The ignition was a weak link but I could change out the pulsers in about 17 seconds once the bike was in the pits . In conclusion 10w30 ran cooler and did not break down as much as the thicker oils did. May I quote you in other forums because you have first hand knowledge on the benefits of increasing Flow??? Flow is what really lubricates our engines not pressure... pressure and flow are inverse proportional... you can have pressure at the expense of flow... an increased in flow is an increased in cooling by the oil... an increase in flow works harder to separate the engine parts that are under very high stress... an increase in flow means less internal drag and more HP at the rear wheel... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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