STrider Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 I currently ride an ST1300 and Gen. 6 VFR. At some point in the not too distant future I want to downsize to one bike and the Gen 7 with DCT intrigues me. I know that the 2010 had some initial teething issues with the DCT, which were subsequently tweaked on the 2012/2013 versions. Therefore, would I be better off focusing on acquiring one of the later models? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DriverDave Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 That's what I would do if it were me. Between the improvements Honda made and the low prices that new 12's and 13's are going for, it just doesn't make sense to get a 2010 (unless you just have to have red). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motorn Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 Don't over look a 2010. The only difference is the 2012 and newer have traction control,a slightly different seat,and 0.4 bigger fuel capacity. The 12's and up still have the power restrictions. I own a 2010 and it is an amazing machine.I find the dct high tech technology in a motorcycle,alot of fun. If traction control is important to you then the 2012 will fit the bill.Just my $.02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lshark Posted January 11, 2015 Share Posted January 11, 2015 honda did refine the DCT software in 2012 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer EhViffer Posted January 11, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted January 11, 2015 Yes there is a difference on the DCT software between 2010 and 2012 when the OEM re flash was introduced. My wife's 2012 has less lag in 1st and 2nd. It is noticeable between our bikes. I have had my ECU flashed by Guhl to see if that resolves lag issues. Sent from my cerebellum using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Marsman99 Posted January 11, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted January 11, 2015 Everything said above is true, except perhaps for the severity of the 2010 low speed lag/stumble/fuel map. I think EhViffer is probably the only member qualified to make a direct assessment between the '10 and '12...and I noticed he stopped short of doing so.... In my case, I have never had any issue with the low speed throttling on my 2010. After some riding experience and a single cable adjustment, I'm set. However, all the DCT's feel different than a clutch bike during slow speed maneuvers. I've pointed out that this is the one area the clutch bikes are better IMO. You simply cannot feather the clutch to precisely transfer power to the wheel as with a clutch. So, doing tight 3-point turns, or maneuvering through a tight parking lot is a bit more of an effort in control. But, it is not even close to being an issue, and a fairly trivial consideration when deciding clutch vs DCT. The rest of the fueling and restriction issues for all VFR's were handled by the Guhl ECU re flash. Take out traction control, seat shape and small tank size increase, and it really boils down to color and price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STrider Posted January 11, 2015 Author Share Posted January 11, 2015 The bike looks fabulous in either red, blue, or black (the Candy Blue probably being my least favorite, but I wouldn't throw it out of the garage), so color is not an issue. I'm also aware of the differences in seat shape, and ever so slightly larger fuel tank. Also not a show stopper. Never had TC and view it as a nice to have, not need to have. My main concern is the low speed stubbling issues. Will be relocating in 2 years to an area where I'll be doing more urban riding and that's where I think the DCT will be a most welcome capability. I'm not familiar with the Guhl ECU flash. Is that a local shop somewhere, or a Mother Honda fix? Would most likely want to farkle to the same degree of intensity as EhViffer; as I've done similar with my ST and Gen 6. Don't mock the afflicted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer swimmer Posted January 12, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted January 12, 2015 Also in '12 they added instant/avg. mpg, miles til empty and fuel amount left to the display. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
STrider Posted January 12, 2015 Author Share Posted January 12, 2015 OK found the info related to the Guhl flashing, so I'm now up to speed (nothing like showing up late to the party). Looks like $350. well spent. Have seen 2010s going for $8K to $9K, 2012s for high $9K to low $11K and 2013s for high $11K to high $12K. The DCTs seem to run for about $1K more than the F, which makes sense. So... my conclusion is that while I'd prefer a 12, or 13, a right priced 2010, with some nice bits like center stand, panniers, etc. would also do quite nicely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DriverDave Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 There was a new 2013 DCT at a dealer in OR a couple months ago for under $11k. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motorn Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 All years of the 1200,seem to benefit from the the re-flash,regardless of the so-called updates.Any year of VFR I'm sure you'll be happy with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lshark Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 the revisions that honda did to the DCT involve shift points etc...obviously the increased data base of info that they had after a year or two of production and testing was applied ....the Guhl re flash does not address any of that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motorn Posted January 12, 2015 Share Posted January 12, 2015 I didn't say it did. I said all models have shown improvement with the reflash. Some 2013 owners have already proven that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RogueWave Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 Everything said above is true, except perhaps for the severity of the 2010 low speed lag/stumble/fuel map. I think EhViffer is probably the only member qualified to make a direct assessment between the '10 and '12...and I noticed he stopped short of doing so.... In my case, I have never had any issue with the low speed throttling on my 2010. After some riding experience and a single cable adjustment, I'm set. However, all the DCT's feel different than a clutch bike during slow speed maneuvers. I've pointed out that this is the one area the clutch bikes are better IMO. You simply cannot feather the clutch to precisely transfer power to the wheel as with a clutch. So, doing tight 3-point turns, or maneuvering through a tight parking lot is a bit more of an effort in control. But, it is not even close to being an issue, and a fairly trivial consideration when deciding clutch vs DCT. The rest of the fueling and restriction issues for all VFR's were handled by the Guhl ECU re flash. Take out traction control, seat shape and small tank size increase, and it really boils down to color and price. Have you tried Manual Mode for slow speed maneuvering? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lshark Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 it's interesting that no magazines ever published 1/4 mile times and ET for the DCT model Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
satariel Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I`ve seen 0-100kph times in one german moto magazine already if that helps? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lshark Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 question for DCT riders...is there a way to get a good 1/4 mile launch with DCT ?? after experiencing the pre ZBomb powerband,..i just can't help but imagine the DCT to be kinda go kart like off the line Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Marsman99 Posted January 21, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted January 21, 2015 ...So, doing tight 3-point turns, or maneuvering through a tight parking lot is a bit more of an effort in control.... Have you tried Manual Mode for slow speed maneuvering? Not sure that changes anything as even in D mode the bike is in first gear. It's all about throttle position. The DCT just doesn't have the added precision you get with a clutch in terms of controlling power to the rear wheel. This is one reason I can't see DCT, or any variant, making it on an a serious off road bike. As far as hot launches, before ECU re flash they were non existent, after re flash noticeably better. I haven't really played with power braking or other tricks. Either way, wouldn't be a match for a clutch equipped equivalent. The 1200F version would toast the DCT off the line. Let's face it, if wheelies and drag racing are in your riding mix, don't buy the DCT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer EhViffer Posted January 21, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted January 21, 2015 This was from Sport Rider test posted October 19, 2010; "The differences between the standard transmission and the DCT model are even more pronounced when pushing the limits of what the bike is meant for. Because the "dual" in dual clutch transmission is really two halves of a single clutch (which is explained further in the accompanying sidebar), their overall strength is reduced. In order to quell the 142 horsepower and 81.4 ft-lb of torque during hard launches, the ECU will pull back power so as to not destroy the clutch. Full power is then restored once road and engine speed are deemed to be at a level the clutch can handle. This is readily apparent in the quarter-mile times between the standard and DCT models. The latter's 11.67 seconds corrected time compared to the 10.23 seconds for the former illustrate the disparity. While the quarter-mile time is slightly surprising, we didn't think the roll-on numbers would be much different than the standard model since the clutches wouldn't receive the same stress. Again, the disparity was noticeable. A 0.5 second slower 60-80mph time (3.61 vs. 3.14) and a 0.7 second slower 80-100mph (4.27 vs. 3.50) were both larger gaps than we expected. For reasons we can't explain, Honda chose to gear the DCT model differently than the standard model. Overall gearing is slightly shorter, while internally the first three gears are also tweaked." Sport Rider also did a review of the 2012 model and noted the the differences with the ECU upgrade to 2012 and subsequent VFR models.No quarter mile times for comparison though. http://www.sportrider.com/bikes/mr-clutch-not-quite-2013-honda-vfr1200f-dct-review Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Skids Posted January 21, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted January 21, 2015 I wonder if the Guhl flash could affect that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer swimmer Posted January 21, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted January 21, 2015 I wonder if the Guhl flash could affect that? Sure, you can roach your DCT since there aren't power restrictions as Honda designed for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Skids Posted January 21, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted January 21, 2015 I wonder if the Guhl flash could affect that? Sure, you can roach your DCT since there aren't power restrictions as Honda designed for. The point I was trying to make is that I wouldn't want to trash the clutches and wonder if this could be an issue with the Guhl flash? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer EhViffer Posted January 21, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted January 21, 2015 Guess I`ll find out this spring if the clutches are up to it when I test out the Guhl flash on my 2010 for the first time. What Sport Rider describes in their comparison of the 2010 to the 2012 behavior I would confirm as that is exactly what I feel when I ride my wife`s 2012 versus my 2010. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motorn Posted January 21, 2015 Share Posted January 21, 2015 I'll have the reflash done along with decat the exhaust and K/N filter. It will add more power to my dct,but I have to wait till spring to drive it.I'll post my results when I ride it. I'm not considered about the clutches at all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer swimmer Posted January 21, 2015 Member Contributer Share Posted January 21, 2015 I'm not considered about the clutches at all Obviously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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