Member Contributer karhawk Posted May 23, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted May 23, 2012 The cranking started getting slower and slower then I got a small puff of smoke near the battery somewhere. Update I bought a new gel battery since I didn't know the history of my existing unit. I had the starter tested at a local starter rebuilder, he said it tested OK, it tries to turn over but won't. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer V-FORE Posted May 23, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted May 23, 2012 Sounds to me like the on/off switch Handlebar kill switch?? is it on maybe kickstand sensor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer YoshiHNS Posted May 23, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted May 23, 2012 Pull it up next to your car and use it to give it a jump. Then worry about a new battery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer karhawk Posted May 23, 2012 Author Member Contributer Share Posted May 23, 2012 Pull it up next to your car and use it to give it a jump. Then worry about a new battery. Yeah good idea I'll jump it with the Fiat, THAT should crank it over! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer YoshiHNS Posted May 23, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted May 23, 2012 Pull it up next to your car and use it to give it a jump. Then worry about a new battery. Yeah good idea I'll jump it with the Fiat, THAT should crank it over! Aren't Italians known for having fantastic electrical systems? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metallican525 Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Just had a similar problem with the miniceptor. Remember, Voltage dosen't mean that Amperage is there. Amperage is important, without that, the Voltage is pushing basically nothing. I second the jump start idea, and I'll give a vote for a new battery. Cheap vs expensive is of little concequence, cheap batteries just need replaced more often I find. Should be able to get about two years from a $40 special if ridden regularly, more if you are religious about using a battery tender all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FoothillRyder Posted May 23, 2012 Share Posted May 23, 2012 Pull it up next to your car and use it to give it a jump. Then worry about a new battery. Yeah good idea I'll jump it with the Fiat, THAT should crank it over! Just DON'T have the car running when you connect the cables (or at any time while they are connected). The car's charging system operates at a higher voltage, and will FRY your bike's electricals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer karhawk Posted May 23, 2012 Author Member Contributer Share Posted May 23, 2012 OK tried jumping with good battery still won't crank, you can hear the solenoid clicking but not enough juice is going to the starter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer karhawk Posted May 23, 2012 Author Member Contributer Share Posted May 23, 2012 Sounds to me like the on/off switch Handlebar kill switch?? is it on maybe kickstand sensor? It wants to crank and sometimes will but very slow, and getting worse, just happened after a short ride Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer CornerCarver Posted May 23, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted May 23, 2012 have a local auto parts store test the battery with a load. I think it needs to be replaced Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer karhawk Posted May 23, 2012 Author Member Contributer Share Posted May 23, 2012 have a local auto parts store test the battery with a load. I think it needs to be replaced It won't crank hooked up to the Fiat which has a new battery, is the solenoid failing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer CornerCarver Posted May 24, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted May 24, 2012 easy to tell if you touch the positive cable to that side of the starter relay and bypass the relay... does the starter feel too warm to keep your hand opn it while attempting to crank? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer karhawk Posted May 24, 2012 Author Member Contributer Share Posted May 24, 2012 easy to tell if you touch the positive cable to that side of the starter relay and bypass the relay... does the starter feel too warm to keep your hand opn it while attempting to crank? I'll ck that, the fairings have to come off, if it wont crank I don't push it although I did get a puff if smoke out of that area a couple day ago, cranking with a tired battery and then puff! Smoke, you can usually smell problems first. I think I'll change the relay. Which wires are jumped to bypass the relay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer CornerCarver Posted May 24, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted May 24, 2012 the start relay has the 30 amp fuse under the red cover that also holds the 4 wires. trace the two large gauge wires back, one will go directly to the positive of the battery and the other goes to the starter. touch the positive lead from your jumper battery to the side of the relay that goes to the starter, not to the side that is about 5" long and goes to the battery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Dutchy Posted May 24, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted May 24, 2012 The fact that the solenoid is clicking does not mean it is not broken...... Found that out myself a few years ago.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted May 24, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted May 24, 2012 Bad starter brushes ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer karhawk Posted May 24, 2012 Author Member Contributer Share Posted May 24, 2012 The fact that the solenoid is clicking does not mean it is not broken...... Found that out myself a few years ago.... I'll bypass the solenoid and see what happens, I think I have a good battery, it shows over 12v and the headlights are bright and the horn is loud, if it's not the solenoid it must be the starter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smoothsailin Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 My suggestion is for you to stop guessing, gain access to the factory service manual and follow the troubleshooting instructions therein accordingly. Since you say you've already observed electrical components on the motorcycle have been "smoking" and have smelled things burning these are never good signs. If you simply keep making uninformed guesses about what may be wrong and continue throwing volts and amps at the issue by jumping from oversize auto batteries and battery chargers you're running the risk of causing even more damage imo. Better to take it to a competent motorcycle mechanic if you have little (or no) practical experience with troubleshooting & repairing electrical issues. Stopping now and turning the problem over to someone w/the tools and experience may cost less in the long run. Sadly, I fear your motorcycle may already have suffered damage to the starter, stator, RR, wiring harness, main fuse, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer karhawk Posted May 24, 2012 Author Member Contributer Share Posted May 24, 2012 My suggestion is for you to stop guessing, gain access to the factory service manual and follow the troubleshooting instructions therein accordingly. Since you say you've already observed electrical components on the motorcycle have been "smoking" and have smelled things burning these are never good signs. If you simply keep making uninformed guesses about what may be wrong and continue throwing volts and amps at the issue by jumping from oversize auto batteries and battery chargers you're running the risk of causing even more damage imo. Better to take it to a competent motorcycle mechanic if you have little (or no) practical experience with troubleshooting & repairing electrical issues. Stopping now and turning the problem over to someone w/the tools and experience may cost less in the long run. Sadly, I fear your motorcycle may already have suffered damage to the starter, stator, RR, wiring harness, main fuse, etc. The smoking happened while cranking to start after sitting for a month, main fuse is fine since then I have only charged the battery and tried to jump it from the Fiat battery all to no avail. It does not turn over or turns over very slowly, bypassing the solenoid has no effect, although I'm pretty sure it will jump start just fine. I'll read the manual, but at this point I think the starter is the issue since bypassing the solenoid going direct to starter has no effect. Manual states: if it won't turn over after bypassing starter relay, starter is bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer trjerm Posted May 24, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted May 24, 2012 I'd pull the plugs and try it then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smoothsailin Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 Hopefully you're right & perhaps only the starter may be bad. Years ago I learned the hard way how using the battery-boost mode on one of my battery chargers while it was connected to the battery in my motorcycle can cause damage. In my case I discovered the stator in my motorcycle was fried after I fired up the reluctant beast this way one cold day. Also you should avoid cranking the engine w/the starter for more than 5 seconds at a time and allow the starter to have a cooling-off period before trying again. If testing proves the starter is faulty, a faster and less costly option to ordering and waiting for a replacement unit to arrive may be for you to search for a local company that may specialize in rebuilding starters & alternators. When the starter went bad on one of my vehicles a few years ago I removed the unit and carried it to a local rebuilder who was able to rebuild/repair it in less than a hour while I waited-and for a reasonable price. I've never had any more problems w/the unit since. Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer karhawk Posted May 24, 2012 Author Member Contributer Share Posted May 24, 2012 Hopefully you're right & perhaps only the starter may be bad. Years ago I learned the hard way how using the battery-boost mode on one of my battery chargers while it was connected to the battery in my motorcycle can cause damage. In my case I discovered the stator in my motorcycle was fried after I fired up the reluctant beast this way one cold day. Also you should avoid cranking the engine w/the starter for more than 5 seconds at a time and allow the starter to have a cooling-off period before trying again. If testing proves the starter is faulty, a faster and less costly option to ordering and waiting for a replacement unit to arrive may be for you to search for a local company that may specialize in rebuilding starters & alternators. When the starter went bad on one of my vehicles a few years ago I removed the unit and carried it to a local rebuilder who was able to rebuild/repair it in less than a hour while I waited-and for a reasonable price. I've never had any more problems w/the unit since. Good luck! I'm must have cooked the starter cranking it too long, though I am usually intuitive enough not to fry things. Lucky I don't have a boost mode on my charger or I would have used it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer karhawk Posted May 27, 2012 Author Member Contributer Share Posted May 27, 2012 I'd pull the plugs and try it then. And if the starter can spin the engine over with no plugs but with plugs it can't that means it must be the starter? I have a new gel battery that is topped up but still slow or no cranking. The day before it ran great with perfect idle for about 10 miles, when I got home it wouldn't crank over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted May 27, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted May 27, 2012 Hopefully you're right & perhaps only the starter may be bad. Years ago I learned the hard way how using the battery-boost mode on one of my battery chargers while it was connected to the battery in my motorcycle can cause damage. In my case I discovered the stator in my motorcycle was fried after I fired up the reluctant beast this way one cold day. Also you should avoid cranking the engine w/the starter for more than 5 seconds at a time and allow the starter to have a cooling-off period before trying again. If testing proves the starter is faulty, a faster and less costly option to ordering and waiting for a replacement unit to arrive may be for you to search for a local company that may specialize in rebuilding starters & alternators. When the starter went bad on one of my vehicles a few years ago I removed the unit and carried it to a local rebuilder who was able to rebuild/repair it in less than a hour while I waited-and for a reasonable price. I've never had any more problems w/the unit since. Good luck! I'm must have cooked the starter cranking it too long, though I am usually intuitive enough not to fry things. Lucky I don't have a boost mode on my charger or I would have used it. Yeap bad brushes or bad starter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer karhawk Posted May 27, 2012 Author Member Contributer Share Posted May 27, 2012 If the starter clutch fails will that cause similar issues? No crank with good battery. ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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