Veefer800Canuck Posted August 29, 2010 Share Posted August 29, 2010 So on the last day of my trip back from the PNW meet, the bike started acting up a bit. First, the FI light was glowing dimly, and would blink in concert with the turnsignals, but the bike was running fine. The light would go out sometimes and stay off for a long time, then re-light (although dimly) and the entire time this was happening, it was running great. At some point later on, the FI light was staying on fully (and bright), and the bike would randomly stop running, sometimes after a couple of minutes, sometimes not for over an hour or more. I figured out after awhile that if I cycled the kill switch off and on again, the bike would immediately run again. So basically I would be heading down the road at ~70 MPH, the engine totally switches OFF, tachometer immediately goes to zero and I'm slowly coasting down. Cycle the kill switch off/on and the tach comes to life again and the bike is running fine. Continue on my way. This happened at least two dozen times or more on the last day. I'm thinking it has to be a relay somewhere, controlled by the kill switch and perhaps it's getting weak from age. Anyone have any ideas or similar happenings? I haven't had a chance to consult the wiring diagram yet or do any troubleshooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forum CEO HispanicSlammer Posted August 29, 2010 Forum CEO Share Posted August 29, 2010 Perhaps the kill switch itself too. grounding out, the fi light thing though sounds like perhaps the fuel stop relay. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veefer800Canuck Posted August 29, 2010 Author Share Posted August 29, 2010 Perhaps the kill switch itself too. grounding out, the fi light thing though sounds like perhaps the fuel stop relay. I'm suspecting the engine stop relay which is separate from the fuel cut relay. They are an identical part, two of them, located in different places on the bike. The reason for my suspicion is that I shorted the diagnostic plug and got zero blinks, and one of the conditions listed is "faulty engine stop relay". I will have to pull the relay and test it, though that may prove inconclusive as it has apparently not failed entirely, but is intermittent. I wonder if I can disassemble it and visually check the contacts inside? If they are scorched or melted, that's a good indication it's shot, but the magnetic coil could be weak too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer jfviffer Posted August 29, 2010 Member Contributer Share Posted August 29, 2010 Rob, the only logical reason your bike was acting up it was dreading the thought of going back to those straight rds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baileyrock Posted August 29, 2010 Share Posted August 29, 2010 Perhaps the kill switch itself too. grounding out, the fi light thing though sounds like perhaps the fuel stop relay. :fing02: Agreed here with HS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEBSPEED Posted August 29, 2010 Share Posted August 29, 2010 Would like to add faulty bank angle sensor to the mix - it gets reset by cycling the kill switch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer BusyLittleShop Posted August 29, 2010 Member Contributer Share Posted August 29, 2010 Start with the battery for it's the weakest link in the whole system... To determine the condition of an Maintenance Free battery give it a refreshing charge... wait 30 minutes... measure terminal voltage... 12.8 or higher is a good battery... 12.0 to 12.8 is a insufficient charge... recharge... 12.0 or lower... battery unserviceable... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veefer800Canuck Posted August 30, 2010 Author Share Posted August 30, 2010 Start with the battery for it's the weakest link in the whole system... To determine the condition of an Maintenance Free battery give it a refreshing charge... wait 30 minutes... measure terminal voltage... 12.8 or higher is a good battery... 12.0 to 12.8 is a insufficient charge... recharge... 12.0 or lower... battery unserviceable... I have a digital voltmeter on the bike and monitor it quite frequently. Voltage doesn't drop below 13.5v while riding and it's been that way for years witn zero issues, so that is "normal" for my bike. Believe me you, I was watching the voltage even MORE when the bike was misbehaving, and the voltmeter was reporting business as usual. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer kaldek Posted August 30, 2010 Member Contributer Share Posted August 30, 2010 Worth checking your 30amp fuse holder. When you get the overheating problem, these tend to trip out the fuel cut/engine stop relays as the resistance climbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veefer800Canuck Posted August 30, 2010 Author Share Posted August 30, 2010 Worth checking your 30amp fuse holder. When you get the overheating problem, these tend to trip out the fuel cut/engine stop relays as the resistance climbs. Replaced with heavy-gauge wire and aftermarket fuse holder years ago, gained charging voltage, never given a problem since. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer kaldek Posted August 30, 2010 Member Contributer Share Posted August 30, 2010 Worth checking your 30amp fuse holder. When you get the overheating problem, these tend to trip out the fuel cut/engine stop relays as the resistance climbs. Replaced with heavy-gauge wire and aftermarket fuse holder years ago, gained charging voltage, never given a problem since. Of course. I mean, I should have known you would have that done already considering the number of other mods you've got! I'm gonna swing my vote to the bank angle sensor. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer elevation Posted August 30, 2010 Member Contributer Share Posted August 30, 2010 Worth checking your 30amp fuse holder. When you get the overheating problem, these tend to trip out the fuel cut/engine stop relays as the resistance climbs. Replaced with heavy-gauge wire and aftermarket fuse holder years ago, gained charging voltage, never given a problem since. I had a heavy gauge replacement as well but my 30amp wires still fried. The heat is the main problem. My voltmeter would give me proper readouts but my bike would die exactly how the OP's did. The smaller of the connectors was melting and the plastic was getting between the contacts. I would have to clean the contacts to get the bike started again. In the end I installed a VFRness from Tightwad and its been fine since. I will be doing periodic checks though! Always check the 30amp fuse wires and RR wires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer RolandHTG Posted August 30, 2010 Member Contributer Share Posted August 30, 2010 So on the last day of my trip back from the PNW meet, the bike started acting up a bit. First, the FI light was glowing dimly, and would blink in concert with the turnsignals, but the bike was running fine. The light would go out sometimes and stay off for a long time, then re-light (although dimly) and the entire time this was happening, it was running great. At some point later on, the FI light was staying on fully (and bright), and the bike would randomly stop running, sometimes after a couple of minutes, sometimes not for over an hour or more. I figured out after awhile that if I cycled the kill switch off and on again, the bike would immediately run again. So basically I would be heading down the road at ~70 MPH, the engine totally switches OFF, tachometer immediately goes to zero and I'm slowly coasting down. Cycle the kill switch off/on and the tach comes to life again and the bike is running fine. Continue on my way. This happened at least two dozen times or more on the last day. I'm thinking it has to be a relay somewhere, controlled by the kill switch and perhaps it's getting weak from age. Anyone have any ideas or similar happenings? I haven't had a chance to consult the wiring diagram yet or do any troubleshooting. Yes, I had identical symptoms at about 53,000 miles on my 99. Stated with the glowing and blinking FI light then progressed to the engine shut off. I troubleshhooted the entire electrical system for 5 months, never found any component out of spec.. Cleaned every connector I could find even the hidden/buried ground cluster. I finally cured the problem by doing a main wiring harness transplant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veefer800Canuck Posted August 30, 2010 Author Share Posted August 30, 2010 Yes, I had identical symptoms at about 53,000 miles on my 99. Stated with the glowing and blinking FI light then progressed to the engine shut off. I troubleshhooted the entire electrical system for 5 months, never found any component out of spec.. Cleaned every connector I could find even the hidden/buried ground cluster. I finally cured the problem by doing a main wiring harness transplant. Mr. Confidence Booster at your service. :mellow: Nah, it's not you, it's me. The dang wiring harness is expensive! :excl: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer RolandHTG Posted August 31, 2010 Member Contributer Share Posted August 31, 2010 Yes, I had identical symptoms at about 53,000 miles on my 99. Stated with the glowing and blinking FI light then progressed to the engine shut off. I troubleshhooted the entire electrical system for 5 months, never found any component out of spec.. Cleaned every connector I could find even the hidden/buried ground cluster. I finally cured the problem by doing a main wiring harness transplant. Mr. Confidence Booster at your service. :mellow: Nah, it's not you, it's me. The dang wiring harness is expensive! :excl: Yes it is. And it is a bish to replace! Sorry to be the bearer of potential bad news.:blush: BUT...I found one on E-Bay for $50. IF it turns out you need one I wish you similar luck. Have you checked for fi fault codes? Mine was throwing random codes, various different components, that always checked out good. A lot of codes just put the FI in safety mode but when an injector fault hits the ECU it shuts the engine off. But nothing is ACTUALLY bad, it's just stray microvolts from the bad harness fooling the ECU (that's my theory, anyway), so when you do a reset (ignition switch cycle, the fault is no longer detected so all is well until the next time. Mine gradually got to the point it would shut off about every 3 or 4 miles. I got so good at the on the fly restart routine my riding buddies often didn't even notice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer BusyLittleShop Posted August 31, 2010 Member Contributer Share Posted August 31, 2010 I have a digital voltmeter on the bike and monitor it quite frequently. Voltage doesn't drop below 13.5v while riding and it's been that way for years witn zero issues, so that is "normal" for my bike. Believe me you, I was watching the voltage even MORE when the bike was misbehaving, and the voltmeter was reporting business as usual. OK that eliminates the battery... now try the orange box trick... your VFR has the same orange box of grounds as the RC45... it was the cause of my flicking F1 light 4 years ago... You don't want to replace the wiring harness when its just a flaky ground... Orange box trick... To the left of the battery within the harness there is a Orange connector. Inside this is a number of earth wires that go into loops. Its portioned just to one side of the under tray which lets water into the loom and allowing these loops to turn green. This then sends an faint earth up to the FI light making it blink when turning to main bean. As it also earths parts of the PGM-FI unit it can confuse the number of blinks that are sent when trying to figure errors. First try removing and replacing the ground pins one time and then start the engine... if your red PGM-F1 light stays off then this was the culprit... For a permanent fix remove the orange box by taking a jewelers screw driver and carefully depress the tab on each metal connector while tugging on the green wire with needle nose pliers... then assemble the ground pins back onto their corresponding wire and solder... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veefer800Canuck Posted September 1, 2010 Author Share Posted September 1, 2010 Good info and worth checking Larry. Does anyone know exactly where the orange connector is on a 5th gen, Larry's pics are from his RC45. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer BusyLittleShop Posted September 1, 2010 Member Contributer Share Posted September 1, 2010 Good info and worth checking Larry. Does anyone know exactly where the orange connector is on a 5th gen, Larry's pics are from his RC45. Rob... its possible that no one has heard of the orange box before... I believe the 5th gen box rest in the same general area as the RC45... take a look at the wiring harness pics at Roy Ayers.... see square box on ther side of the harness under the #18 for the twist tie??? http://fiche.ronayer...up/WIRE_HARNESS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer RolandHTG Posted September 1, 2010 Member Contributer Share Posted September 1, 2010 Good info and worth checking Larry. Does anyone know exactly where the orange connector is on a 5th gen, Larry's pics are from his RC45. I referred to it as the "ground cluster" in my first post. On my 99 it was tightly wrapped in black electrical tape and snugged to the fat wiring harness along the subframe (seat) rail about 6-8 inhes behind the R/R. If my memory serves it was smaller than the one pictured and more square shaped. Check that, I just went out and had a look. It looks the same as the pictures, I was thrown off a bit by the diffrent frame. Oarange box, about fourteen dark green wires feeding into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veefer800Canuck Posted September 2, 2010 Author Share Posted September 2, 2010 Good info and worth checking Larry. Does anyone know exactly where the orange connector is on a 5th gen, Larry's pics are from his RC45. I referred to it as the "ground cluster" in my first post. On my 99 it was tightly wrapped in black electrical tape and snugged to the fat wiring harness along the subframe (seat) rail about 6-8 inhes behind the R/R. If my memory serves it was smaller than the one pictured and more square shaped. Check that, I just went out and had a look. It looks the same as the pictures, I was thrown off a bit by the diffrent frame. Oarange box, about fourteen dark green wires feeding into it. Thanks, I've got a lot of other things on the go right now, so bike is at the back of the line, but when I get a "Round Tuit", I'll let you guys know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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