Possible Regulator/rectifier Problem?

[Guest Snowflake]

I'm caught in the middle here... On one hand, i'm hoping that this is a Regulator/Rectifier problem, because that means it can be fixed quickly. On the other hand, i'm hoping it's not because the quick fix is to pay Honda whatever they want for a new Regulator/Rectifier because i'm leaving on a two-week road trip (on the VFR, of course) on August 3rd.

After trying to figure out why my GPS was shutting off randomly (Powerlet Kit installed in steering stem), I stuck a voltmeter into the Powerlet outlet. With the bike turned *off*, no loads anywhere (alarm off too), i'm getting 15.74 VDC (!?!?).

If I start the bike and let it idle, that goes up to 17.5 VDC. If I rev, it goes up to 18, then stabilizes back down to 17.5-ish. It seems to hunt around a bit, between 17.5 and 18V.

I'm using a cheapie meter that was a giveaway from VICOR (they make power supplies), so I could understand if it was off a bit, but this is beyond what I would expect for a "small" error. Does it mean my regulator / rectifier is shot?

I tried disconnecting it and reading across the pins, but I read infinity across the combinations of pins that I expected would read something (at least, according to the Honda service manual I have). Is it possible i'm reading the R/R wrong, or is readings of infinity an indicator of a problem?

The R/R is an SH701-12, which suggests that it's been replaced once already... That's not the original part but the Honda replacement.

Any help appreciated, I really don't want the bike dying on me half-way to Calgary, AB (From Vancouver, BC).

Sources of R/R's that can ship to Vancouver in four days guaranteed would be appreciated too. Although Honda is an option if I absolutely must.

[spud786]

The bike is obviously creating voltage , just not controlling it, I think your on the right track

[Guest]

Drat, now i'm really confused. Rode the bike to work today (1/2 hour ride with about 5 minutes in stop-and-go traffic in the middle). Checked the voltage at the Powerlet outlet when I got to work. 12.75 VDC. Turned on the alarm, it dropped to 11.78 VDC. These are both with the engine off.

I'll pull the covers at lunch and see if the regulator shows any more signs of wear, and maybe try testing it with one of the better meters here at the office.

Darn it, Hondas aren't supposed to behave like this! Makes it difficult for me to turn my nose up at Harley and BMW owners... :P

[HispanicSlammer]

I would do the whole charging test, but I think perhaps your gps cradle is faulty. I have had my share of faulty gps cradles, my old quest I had to take it apart and clean the leads a few times, and then I ended up replacing it. My zumo has intermitant sound connection problems, I dabbed a good helping of silicone grease on it and now it seems to work better.

[Guest]

Nope, problem is independent of the GPS Cradle and the Powerlet connector. The Powerlet connector was installed only a week or two ago, but this problem has been occurring since last fall. In any case, I can't conceive how any electrical connections could make my battery read 15.75V at the terminals when the bike is off.

I'll look and see what's involved in a charging system test, and if possible do that tonight. If not, I think i'm off to Honda tomorrow. DynamoHumm doesn't exist anymore, and Rick's is in the US so getting a new R/R from him by Friday would be next to impossible, even if he had the exact one I need in stock.

[TommyHoffman]

Nope, problem is independent of the GPS Cradle and the Powerlet connector. The Powerlet connector was installed only a week or two ago, but this problem has been occurring since last fall. In any case, I can't conceive how any electrical connections could make my battery read 15.75V at the terminals when the bike is off.

I'll look and see what's involved in a charging system test, and if possible do that tonight. If not, I think i'm off to Honda tomorrow. DynamoHumm doesn't exist anymore, and Rick's is in the US so getting a new R/R from him by Friday would be next to impossible, even if he had the exact one I need in stock.

My theroy, after f------ with intermitant issues with the regulator is this. When the recifier gets hot, it starts to do stupid things. Thats when my own unit was causing me problems. replaced it. NOt a problem any more. It freaked out on me from time to time but was mostly reliable. The Technitian ast the shop said more or less the same thing. Heat kills them, and Honda dewsigned the R/R with insuficient heat sinks.

I ended up replacing the Battery and R/R and have had no issues since.

Have a good trip.

[TimC]

I have a thread going on what I thought was my battery issue. But now I wonder. I replaced the battery, but the bike still wouldn't start. Could be the sparkplugs (tho I doubt it since I pulled them and I think they looked OK), so I've ordered new ones.

It cranks normally but just won't fire up. I'm worried it might be the fuel pump or something I can't even diagnose. I don't have a problem letting the shop fix it, but I hate to send the bike there not knowing what the real issue is. I really don't need to pay them 1-2 hours of labor for diagnosis time, plus parts and labor to fix it.

So my question is this: Could a bad R/R or stator keep the bike from starting?

[auggius]

My theroy, after f------ with intermitant issues with the regulator is this. When the recifier gets hot, it starts to do stupid things.

Yep, I second this. My r/r is undercharging right now which didn't leave my battery with enough juice to start the other day. Dead.

Charged up the battery overnight and it started okay the next day. Voltage was fine across the battery terminals when the bike was cold. I took the bike for a 20 minute ride and it started reading 12V after that. I'm hoping that because it was undercharging, the battery will be okay. Last time my r/r went 6 years ago, it was overcharging (17V) and killed the battery. In both cases voltage readings were fine until the bike, or more correctly, the r/r got hot.

BTW, which route you taking to Calgary? I'm in Kaslo. Give a holler if you run into any problems out this way.

[kaldek]

I can't conceive how any electrical connections could make my battery read 15.75V at the terminals when the bike is off.

There is indeed no way your battery is going to produce more than ~13 volts when the bike is off. You need to disconnect everything from the battery and test the voltage again; if it is still reading 15 volts then your meter is stuffed. However if the voltage drops to 12v or so when you disconnect everything else, it might be something else on the bike with a battery which is feeding power into the system and throwing off your multimeter. Like, I dunno, a GPS unit.

Once you sort all that out, if you still get 14.5v+ when the bike is running then your regulator/rectifier is indeed stuffed and it's time to buy a new one.

[swas]

My failed RR took some time to get to the stage where it pumped 18Vdc constantly into the system. It was intermittent before this and every time I noticed the brightness of the headlights changing (don't ride much at night anymore) the meter checks next day said everything OK. I just happened to be riding it at night when it finally failed and didn't ride it again until replacement RR fitted. I was worried about the battery getting cooked and the possible damage to the ignition control electronics.

Fitted a Signal Dynamics Heads up Voltage checker at this time too - best mod I have ever done.

Try getting two from a wrecker, one to fit and the other to carry as a spare, several models have the same RR. Unfortunately for all Honda's great points this is a weakness.

[Guest]

Imho you should read voltage right at battery and not any installed outlet just to be sure you avoid any bad connections. If this shows at bike off 15+V, take a new voltmeter, the one you use would be crap. At bike running, if the voltage shows at battery over 15+, then you may think of r/r, but again try to test it when r/r is hot (best after some ride), then you better replace r/r. You might try to instal some second hand non-Honda stuff, there were some good suggestions here like YamaR1 or from Suzuki etc. but you might not have time to do it. If the problem is not on battery and r/r then you better check all connectors or poor grounding. As you have the alarm system, it probably has its own backup battery, check this system.

[Guest]

Update:

I borrowed a good Fluke multimeter from work, and also replaced the battery in my "el cheapo" meter. Now the battery reads 12.8 volts, right where it should, on both meters (well, the Fluke says 12.82... All that money for one more digit on the display... . I'm going to chalk up the 15/18V readings to a dead battery in a cheap multimeter.

When I got home I measured the Powerlet outlet again, it came up at 5.4 VDC. Not 15.4, but 5.4. I checked all the wires, then the fuse, to discover that the fuse had partially blown. I guess the remaining connection was enough to allow just a little voltage through. Replaced the fuse, went to measure the voltage, and accidentally shorted the terminals in the Powerlet. $#@%#^#$%@. Replaced the fuse again, and now the Powerlet reads 12.8 (12.81 on the Fluke). So that should fix my Powerlet issue.

Ran through the troubleshooting chart in the Honda Service Manual, with the following results:

Battery current leakage test: Passed. 0.521 mA with alarm disconnected, 7 mA with alarm connected. (Honda spec. less than 1.2 mA)

Voltages at R/R battery charging line and ground line: Passed.

Alternator resistance at R/R connector: Maybe passed. Measured at 0.5 ohm, Honda spec 1.0 to 2.0 ohm. Not sure if this is a problem or not.

R/R check (removed from bike): Fail. I cant' read any resistance but infinity across any two terminals of the R/R.

Didn't do the charging voltage/charging current check, as I don't have a meter with a 30A fuse, and don't want to risk blowing the 10A fuse in my co-worker's Fluke. I guess I should have checked what the voltage does when I start it, i'll do that tonight.

The Honda manual is very specific that only certain meters will work for testing the R/R. Is that just Honda wanting to sell their specific tool, or is there something about measuring an R/R that can only be done with an analog meter or a specific digital one?

On a related note, I ordered a volt meter from Digikey yesterday, it just arrived. Now I get to find a place to mount it.

[Guest]

I have a thread going on what I thought was my battery issue. But now I wonder. I replaced the battery, but the bike still wouldn't start. Could be the sparkplugs (tho I doubt it since I pulled them and I think they looked OK), so I've ordered new ones.

It cranks normally but just won't fire up. I'm worried it might be the fuel pump or something I can't even diagnose. I don't have a problem letting the shop fix it, but I hate to send the bike there not knowing what the real issue is. I really don't need to pay them 1-2 hours of labor for diagnosis time, plus parts and labor to fix it.

So my question is this: Could a bad R/R or stator keep the bike from starting?

Not as long as the battery is good. The r/r and stator don't even need to be connected for the bike to start, the bike starts off of the battery.

[Guest]

Further update... My local Honda dealer tells me that they can't diagnose a failed R/R without me bringing in the entire bike and them doing a charging system test on it. I pointed out that there's instructions in the service manual and a chart to use to test it, but they said "yeah, but they don't tell you everything in the service manual."

Grrr. Now I need to find a new shop as well as get my bike fixed in four days. Not looking promising.

[Guest]

Not that I like bumping my own threads, per se, but I thought it would be useful to keep the thread going until I find resolution, in hopes that my experience will help others in the future.

It's looking more promising today.

Rode the bike to work again, after opening everything up again and running another charging system check. Couldn't find any problems, it idles at 12.8V and goes right to 14.6 when revved up. Blew the fuse in my Powerlet *again* while testing voltages every time I turned the bike off. Grr. I'll need to make a plastic tube I can drop in there when i'm working on it so i'll stop shorting the center conductor to the tube with my shaky hands. And the next time I have the rear plastics off, i'll move the fuse holder for the Powerlet somewhere I can get at it *without* taking the rear plastics off. Silly me. Noticed that while riding in, the alarm only chirped *once*.

While I was at work I called the manufacturer of my alarm, and described the remaining symptom... Alarm randomly chirping, while parked and while riding. His response was that he would replace it. I got the impression that he's seen this problem before.

Found a 60mm ball-bearing cooling fan at work that wasn't being used, so scarfed it to mount next to my R/R next time i'm in there.

Riding home, the alarm again only chirped once, that I noticed. It was cooler today (17C instead of 24-26C), I wonder if it could be temperature related?

[V-FORE]

In my experience with R/R problems the R/R if bad overcharges the battery so another test is does your battery get hot? Good Luck & I hope you have a good trip!

[Guest]

I haven't noticed any increased battery temperatures. I do have a fan now to place on the R/R "just in case" but i'm back to thinking that this might all just be caused by a bad alarm unit. Calling the Alarm manuf. today to set up a meeting and swap it out.