Bad Battery?

[Bent]

Now is the time to go get that bike of your dreams. :biggrin:

Let us know when you find the fix!

[TimC]

When I tried it again a few minutes ago I got the same results: Ignition on, run/kill switch set to run, instruments and lights on, fuel pump cycles (whirs/makes noise for a couple seconds), starter cranks normally but bike does not start. Checked the battery voltage and it read 12.87v. Hooked up battery tender and will try it later once the battery is up to 13+ volts again.

In this scenario it sounds like everything is working(fuel pump, starter, battery), you should get the few seconds of fuel pump priming every time the key is turned on with the start switch on.

At this stage you might have fouled plugs on top of whatever the root problem is, next time you try and it still won't start, but the pump primes, pull a plug and see if it's wet! :biggrin:

Before I left for work this morning I checked the battery voltage after the tender was hooked up to it all night. Voltmeter read 12.94v. I did try to start it and while it cranked over again, it was a little weaker than yesterday. I'll order a new battery today, install it and see what happens. If it doesn't start then I'll dig into it some more.

Man this is frustrating. I wish I had a day to just poke around the bike, but with work and stuff going on every weekend it's really tough to get time to work on my own VFR. :fing02:

Now is the time to go get that bike of your dreams. :goofy:

Hey, don't think I haven't thought of that! But we all know that's crazy talk, when this will probably be an easy and fairly inexpensive fix. Esp. compared to buying a new bike! :laugh:

[Baileyrock]

I did try to start it and while it cranked over again, it was a little weaker than yesterday. I'll order a new battery today, install it and see what happens. If it doesn't start then I'll dig into it some more.

Tim,

Do check those plugs, once they foul they will never recover w/o cleaning them at least. If the bike has been getting proper fuel this entire time, I can almost guarantee they are now fouled if the bike hasn't run!

:biggrin:

[TimC]

I did try to start it and while it cranked over again, it was a little weaker than yesterday. I'll order a new battery today, install it and see what happens. If it doesn't start then I'll dig into it some more.

Tim,

Do check those plugs, once they foul they will never recover w/o cleaning them at least. If the bike has been getting proper fuel this entire time, I can almost guarantee they are now fouled if the bike hasn't run!

:unsure:

I haven't checked the plugs yet. Again, just don't have time during the week. Any way to clean them up if they are fouled? I read a couple things on the 'net this afternoon on this, but it seems wiser to just replace them, esp. if I can do so without major expense. If I can find them locally for $15 each I'll just buy new ones. I might have gotten another 5k-10k mi. out of these, but at least now I won't have to worry about replacing them for a couple years.

Update on the battery: Took the tender off around 4 pm - IIRC it was reading over 13.12v at the time. Checked it tonight around 10 pm and it was down to 13.02v. I ordered a new Yuasa YTZ14S from Chapparal late this afternoon. $132 plus free shipping - Thanks again for the link, Stumpthumper! That's a great price.

At this point I'm hoping it's just a toasted battery and that, like BR suspects, I fouled the plugs trying to start it a few times, so even if the old battery is strong enough after 'tendering' it, the bike won't start due to the fouled plugs. And around and around we go. I should have the new battery in a few days or by next week, will find some plugs locally and hope to be riding again within a week. Very frustrating.

[Guest]

I have always bought my batteries from Interstate store here in town. When my RR went out I fried my battery. Bought a new one from Interstate and haven't had any problems.

Try this to get a very helpful electrical flowchart.

www.electrosport.com

On the left side there is an option to download a diagnostic chart. It worked for me and I had no knowledge of electrical systems at all. I have shown a couple other guys who have also used it successfully. Good Luck!

[Bent]

I did try to start it and while it cranked over again, it was a little weaker than yesterday. I'll order a new battery today, install it and see what happens. If it doesn't start then I'll dig into it some more.

Tim,

Do check those plugs, once they foul they will never recover w/o cleaning them at least. If the bike has been getting proper fuel this entire time, I can almost guarantee they are now fouled if the bike hasn't run!

:unsure:

I haven't checked the plugs yet. Again, just don't have time during the week. Any way to clean them up if they are fouled? I read a couple things on the 'net this afternoon on this, but it seems wiser to just replace them, esp. if I can do so without major expense. If I can find them locally for $15 each I'll just buy new ones. I might have gotten another 5k-10k mi. out of these, but at least now I won't have to worry about replacing them for a couple years.

Update on the battery: Took the tender off around 4 pm - IIRC it was reading over 13.12v at the time. Checked it tonight around 10 pm and it was down to 13.02v. I ordered a new Yuasa YTZ14S from Chapparal late this afternoon. $132 plus free shipping - Thanks again for the link, Stumpthumper! That's a great price.

At this point I'm hoping it's just a toasted battery and that, like BR suspects, I fouled the plugs trying to start it a few times, so even if the old battery is strong enough after 'tendering' it, the bike won't start due to the fouled plugs. And around and around we go. I should have the new battery in a few days or by next week, will find some plugs locally and hope to be riding again within a week. Very frustrating.

Sounds like you need a "back up" bike. :fing02:

Hope the new battery does the trick.

[TimC]

Received the new battery today. Siphoned most fuel out of the gas tank to make it easier to manipulate the tank while dealing with the sparkplugs. Managed to spill some on the garage floor. Nice.

Pulled the sparkplugs last night - what a PITA, esp. the right rear cylinder. Fronts were much easier. BTW, for anyone who needs to do this on their 6th gen. for the 1st time, you do not have to remove the side fairings or even the oil cooler to get to the front plugs.

I'm no expert, but the plugs looked OK to me. There is a bit of (I suspect) carbon build-up, but compared to pix I've seen online of fouled plugs I think these are OK. One plug had a bit of oil at the top of the threads (closer to the ceramic), but none of the business ends were 'wet' with fuel or oil. I'll still replace them, esp. since I already have the old ones out, but I'm still wondering if the real problem is just a bad battery.

Will pick up a new set of 'plugs at the dealer later today - and at a decent 'dealer' price of $16 each. I know it's cheaper online, but I don't mind paying a little more locally, plus I'll have them ASAP.

Now, if the bike still won't start after replacing the battery and 'plugs I'll have to keep digging, but I hope to have the bike running again by late tonight or tomorrow afternoon!

As I've said 20 times this is frustrating, but in the "pro" column I have to say at least I'm increasing my mechanical skills a little bit thru this whole deal. :schla15:

[TimC]

Update: Did not get to m/c shop yesterday. Reinstalled existing plugs and installed new battery this morning. Had all lights and instruments and the fuel pump cycled but the bike still won't start. :fing02:

Went to the shop this afternoon. They didn't actually have the NGK plugs in stock that they told me via phone they had on-hand. I bought similar plugs that should work, but I'm going to take them back and order the exact right plugs online. I'm trying to diagnose a problem here, and if I install these plugs and the bike still doesn't start I'll be wondering whether it's the non-spec plugs or if there is something else wrong that I haven't caught yet.

Looks like another week without the bike, as I'll order the plugs today but will be out of town next weekend, so I guess I'll only be missing 3 days of riding, but it's already been almost a week, so I'm looking at 2 weeks of being on 4 wheels instead of 2. This sucks. :fing02:

If the bike won't start when I get the new plugs I'll have to have it picked up and dropped off at the shop. I really don't want to have to do that, but I don't know anyone with a pickup truck either, so unless it's something else I can diagnose and fix myself I'll have no choice.

BTW, I learned today that just b/c a shop says they have something in stock doesn't mean they do. On the phone, ask them to actually go and touch that item. Would have saved me time and (gas) money if I'd done that yesterday. Don't trust their inventory system.

[spud786]

I checked my battery right after a ride and it was at 13.25 volt, thats what I wanted to see

the last time I waited a couple hours before checking, and it had dissipated to 12.79, so I'm in good shape, thats fine holding there

[Rivcyko]

Relay?

[Guest]

Tim, earlier in the post you mention you have a pcIII. Have you tried disconnecting it and returning to stock mode before trying to start the bike. As BR mentioned about increased amps hurting your battery, I'm wondering how the extra surge may have affected the pcIII. Just throwing another possibility your way.

[TimC]

Tim, earlier in the post you mention you have a pcIII. Have you tried disconnecting it and returning to stock mode before trying to start the bike. As BR mentioned about increased amps hurting your battery, I'm wondering how the extra surge may have affected the pcIII. Just throwing another possibility your way.

Good point, but I don't think I had installed the PCIII yet when I jumpstarted the bike.

New sparkplugs will be in Friday, but I'll be out of town thru Sunday. Honestly, I think it's something else anyway, but it can't hurt to replace the original 'plugs, even if that's not the issue.

Heading to Indiana this weekend to see my folks. I will dig into it again early next week when I get home. By then I'll have been off the bike for 2 weeks and I'll be going thru serious withdrawal! :biggrin: :warranty:

[Baileyrock]

Tim, earlier in the post you mention you have a pcIII. Have you tried disconnecting it and returning to stock mode before trying to start the bike. As BR mentioned about increased amps hurting your battery, I'm wondering how the extra surge may have affected the pcIII. Just throwing another possibility your way.

Good point, but I don't think I had installed the PCIII yet when I jumpstarted the bike.

New sparkplugs will be in Friday, but I'll be out of town thru Sunday. Honestly, I think it's something else anyway, but it can't hurt to replace the original 'plugs, even if that's not the issue.

Heading to Indiana this weekend to see my folks. I will dig into it again early next week when I get home. By then I'll have been off the bike for 2 weeks and I'll be going thru serious withdrawal! :blink: :fing02:

I missed the fact that you have a PCII/III on your bike! 05vfrDoug has a great suggestion!

These things just die for no reason and for sure anytime you have a poor run or no start condition you need to unplug it (PCIII) and try to start or run the bike w/o the PC to eliminate the chance of it being the problem and it's a simple NO cost test. :biggrin:

btw I've had 2 fail. :warranty:

[TimC]

I have had zero time to work on the bike, or maybe a little time but no desire to mess around with it in the garage over the last couple weeks. I've hardly been home much to ride anyway, so tho I've missed riding very much I wouldn't have had time to do it much even if the bike had been running. But I worked on it again tonight.

Sequence of events over the last couple weeks:

Replaced battery. No start.

Yanked sparkplugs and checked them out. Looked OK, reinstalled. No start.

Unplugged PCIII and reconnected main wiring harness. No start.

Reconnected PCIII and replaced sparkplugs. No start, tho it acted like it might.

Put trickle charger on new battery since it's been sitting for over a week. Tried it again and it STARTED! Yeah! :)

I think I must have flooded it while trying to start it a couple weeks ago. It wanted to start this evening, so I kept on the starter an extra couple seconds 'til it did finally start weakly. Some blue smoke came out the pipes and I ran it, revving it once in awhile, 'til I felt like any extra fuel had been burned off.

Tho I've spent $200 (new battery and 'plugs) and a few hours on this I still don't think it's 100%. When I turn off the bike I always hit the 'kill' switch to kill the engine, then turn off the ignition. When starting the bike I do the reverse: Ignition on first, wait for instruments to cycle, then flip the run/stop switch to RUN. Sometimes the fuel pump is NOT cycling. I believe that's where the problem is, but I'm not enough of a mechanic to do much more than I have.

I am relieved I got it to start again, however all this means is that I can ride it to the shop instead of having to have it picked up and delivered there. I can't see riding it regularly again 'til I know it's 100% fixed and reliable. I hate to give up on it now but as I've said many times, I don't have a lot of free time and my mechanical skills are few. Truth be told I'm proud of myself for the things I did do. I was good enough to get this far but now I think I'll let the pros handle it. I'm blessed to have enough dough in the bank right now so I can afford it.

Thanks for your help and suggestions above, everyone!

[Tightwad]

I was just wondering what your solution had been. Is it possible you just got some bad fuel? I always shut off the ignition with the kill swith in the run position. Not sure if this means anything, but worth a shot.

I highly doubt your problem was your battery, as it had the juice to turn it over. Fuel is typically the issue if it will crank, although spark has been known to go missing. Usually you can tell just by hooking an extra plug to the wire and grounding it against the motor, then cranking it....you will see the spark.

Fuel

Spark

Compression

All happening at the right times....when the motor won't start, one or more of those it to blame, and usually something doesn't just "fail"....so if you shut it off and it never starts again it is usually a fuel issue.

[TimC]

I was just wondering what your solution had been. Is it possible you just got some bad fuel? I always shut off the ignition with the kill swith in the run position. Not sure if this means anything, but worth a shot.

I highly doubt your problem was your battery, as it had the juice to turn it over. Fuel is typically the issue if it will crank, although spark has been known to go missing. Usually you can tell just by hooking an extra plug to the wire and grounding it against the motor, then cranking it....you will see the spark.

Fuel

Spark

Compression

All happening at the right times....when the motor won't start, one or more of those it to blame, and usually something doesn't just "fail"....so if you shut it off and it never starts again it is usually a fuel issue.

A fellow member and I just PM'd a couple times and he suggested it could be a dirty or bad starter relay switch. That sounds entirely plausible, especially since the problem is intermittent, so I'll check it out when I have a little time in a day or two. (Thanks again, KK!)

I still have a few days before I can even take the bike in, so perhaps I can still get this licked myself before paying someone else to do it.

[TimC]

Update: A fellow member and another friend of mine came over for pizza and refreshments Friday night and we checked out my bike.

We narrowed it down to an issue with switches/relays to the fuel pump. While checking it out and demonstrating the issue I've had, I got the fuel pump to NOT cycle a couple times. We fiddled with connectors, wires, switches and a couple fuses. Then we couldn't get it to not work again. Perhaps a loose connection we happened to fix.

We went for a quick ride and all was well, as it has been for the last few days, too.

So the bike is running fine now. I'll be calling for my friends' help again if and when the issue reappears. Big thanks to my buddies for their help and comraderie Friday night! :biggrin: