Producing A Fix For The Regulator/rectifier Wiring Issue

[Tightwad]

I just noticed last weekend that my tripometer & clock reset themselves. I may need this sooner than later. I'm gonna put a multimeter on to get some #'s, do I check the voltage at the battery terminals @ idle and at 5K. I'm a bit slow when it comes to lectric stuff.

Yes, you want to check voltage at idle, 5K and with the brights on. Voltage should be fairly steady, not under 14 or over 15.2 or so.

[Tightwad]

I have finalized the fix, and updated the VFRness to cover those who's bikes don't have a switched wire. Incidentally, that seems to be anyone without ABS....that was the only common denominator I found among those who responded.

Here is the wire used:

With the crimp connector in place:

The wire you tap is located here:

the wire is a Red w/black wire, in a 4 prong plug. It is located right next to the R/R plug, maybe 4 inches away at most.

Connector being crimped:

Wire inserted into connector:

Those who get the new harness won't need to remove the original wire from the VFRness, but for those who need to:

you can see the wire goes into the left side, if you orient the power lead to the botttom and look at the relay plug from the back

 Purple Output wire --->	___ new wire goes here  --> |	  | <---Green to ground   Power (Red)	  -->	 |

[Tightwad]

Look what I got in the mail today!!!

I do believe this could be the solution to so many R/R woes experienced by those with older bikes especially. This is a 40 amp R/R that is the same size as the 2000-20007 models. It does NOT have the monitor wire, for good or bad, and will work as a general replacement for models from at least 1990 and up...possibly all VFR's altogether.

It comes standard with 30" of wire, no connector. This leaves me plenty of options for using it as a stock replacement on and bike, or I can make it a custom fit if it needs relocated, and run the wires to the battery and grounds directly.

Here is a side comparison view:

The mounting holes are slotted, to work in a variety of locations. Dimensions are as follows:

4 3/8" long

3" wide

1 1/8" tall

3-4" on center mounting holes

30" of wire, 2 Red, 2 Green, 3 yellow

Cost bare is $110

Cost Wired for 2002-2007 is $120

Cost wired for 1998-1999 and older will depend on mounting location and plug options($120-$130 estimated).

Cost wired for 1990-1997 will depend on mounting locations, no option for connecting to factory wiring($120-$130 estimated).

The same R/R sells from Dennis Kirk for $119, without plugs or custom fit.

[GP Paul]

I'll try to fit mine in this weekend if the rain quits (no garage).

[Baileyrock]

I have finalized the fix, and updated the VFRness to cover those who's bikes don't have a switched wire. Incidentally, that seems to be anyone without ABS....that was the only common denominator I found among those who responded.

Here is the wire used:

I hate to use this type of connector on any real elec. need, got something better? I've had this type Fail many many times! :goofy:

[Tightwad]

I have finalized the fix, and updated the VFRness to cover those who's bikes don't have a switched wire. Incidentally, that seems to be anyone without ABS....that was the only common denominator I found among those who responded.

Here is the wire used:

I hate to use this type of connector on any real elec. need, got something better? I've had this type Fail many many times! :wheel:

As the current draw through the connection is minimal, I am comfortable with it. I would not use this to power anything with a current draw.

There are other options, but all involved more wires and more connectors. For instance you could use a 4-wire connector in the Ignition switch wire much like I used in the R/R harness, but this adds more possibilities of corrosion with more connectors(only 1 of the 4 would be needed).

I am open to any ideas on how to approach it differently.

[Tightwad]

New updates on the VFRness front:

Orders continue to come in, and shipments go out. I currently have 5 VFRnesses under construction.

This weekend I had the pleasure of designing a VFRness version for the 1998-1999 model bikes. In a 6 hour marathon session we managed to work around missing key issues (not the easiest part for sure), fit and finish the VFRness, Fit and Finish an accessory fuse holder, and Custom fit a brand new replacement R/R. Much thanks to amcnally336 who offered his bike as the test subject, and bore with me as I went through various iterations of fit options until we found the best version. The results were all we had hoped for(except we had hoped his R/R wouldn’t need replaced of course). I will post the actual numbers along with pictures in a little bit. VFRness will be available for order by Friday.

Lobster was also hard at work this weekend, taking my currently somewhat generic 2000-2001 kit and fuse panel, and making it a more perfect fit for those models. He provided tons of pictures, and will be offering change advise to me. I look forward to receiving that and passing along the installation tips he gives. Pictures from that also coming.

Last but not least, I have good news for the Powerlet^TM lovers out there….I am now an Authorized Powerlet^TM dealer. I will be incorporating their product into various parts of my Harnesses where possible, to offer a wider variety of custom fit applications. If they make it, I can get it from them for you! I will be testing a couple of their options on my own bike to see how the fit and finish is.

Pictures of everything to come, I am hosting them on my website as I have used all of my VFRD bandwidth, and it is taking time to setup the Gallery there.

[Auspanglish]

Hola Tightwad:

I know you said it was a moot point, but in the name of thoroughness and curiosity, I went ahead and tested the R/R's feedback lead on my 2003 European Non-ABS VFR. If I've done it correctly then it's definitely hot. Funnily, I noticed that the said B/W wire is really W/B (more white than black hehehe). Also strangely enough, this wire is not W/B over it's entire trajectory. The wire leaving the R/R up to the connector is solid black. Only once it leaves the connector and heads off to wherever it goes, is it actually white and black. This helped me decide which one to expect a live reading from, as the black one gave no reading. The W/B one did give a reading as you can see in the photos. Again, if I'm doing it right, it's definitely live.

The photos show the red "probe" from my multimeter, sticking onto the female slot of the connector correspondng to the W/B wire. What they don't show is me grounding the negative probe to various parts of the frame (just to be sure). Let me know if I'm doing something wrong, or if it's the wire between R/R and male half of the connector that should give a reading (doubt that for some reason).

I set the multimeter to Voltage D/C. As apparently that's one of the R/R's jobs, converting the A/C from the stator, to D/C which is valid for the battery.

This is the connector here. There are three plastic hoodies with connectors inside.

Under the plastic hoody for the R/R connector there was another connector.

Just so you can see the wire is black from R/R to male connector

Stubborn f&%$er to separate

So good to hear you got to do the install and final design for the 98-99 model. How did the test run home for the generous owner go? Any feedback from him/her? Should I wait for Lobster's run-down before I order the whole kit and kaboodle (1 x VFRness + Fuse box and 1 x Blue-connector fix for my 03 and 1 x VFRness and 1 x Fuse box for my 98er).

Anything else I might need? I figure if you distrust crimping a wire to another, you could always buttonhole and solder, right? Might give more reliable results with the vibrations the V4 produces, not to mention potholes etc.

Edited September 26, 2007 by Auspañol

[Tightwad]

Lobsters fit covers the 2000-2001 models only. The 1998-1999 version is now complete! I also created a special harness for those who wish to use a 2000+ R/R on their 1998-1999 model bikes.

This includes the 3 wire plug and terminals to convert the Stator plug on the 2000+ models to the 1999 and older models. I will be adding this, and the regular 1998-1999 model, to my website hopefully this evening. I will also post more pictures of the normal 1998-1999 model.

[Tightwad]

I have 5 1997 and older plugs. They were outrageously expensive, and i am hoping for a better cost going forward. The other issue is that only the Harness side of the connector is available, as the other is built into the R/R, and has an odd layout (T-shaped blank spot in the middle of one row).

At this point the plan is to disregard the factory harness and go straight to the battery(through a fuse of course). I still need to verify the Stator wire length and connection.

[Tightwad]

What exactly does the VFRness for 1998-1999 do/solve?

The VFRness completes the "Beef up dem wires" mod as detailed here: http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=29975

Essentially it takes the stock charging system wires, and doubles(or more) the paths. It also provides a solid ground at the R/R unit.

Here are the readings from the 1998-1999 develoment/test subject

Initial:

13.00 at Idle

13.3 at 2500

13.51 at 5500 RPM

W/VFRness:

13.00 at idle

14.27 at 2500

13.90 at 5500

w/VFRness and new 40 amp R/R:

13.6 at Idle

14.6 at 2500

14.6 at 5500

As you can see, the real problem was the R/R unit, but the VFRness helped boost the charging system. It should also help prolong the life of the new R/R. The R/R initially installed was the upgraded Honda unit...and had only been in place for a short time.

[Tightwad]

I will be adding instructions for older models as I can. The 1998-1999 is very easy:

Remove Seat

Disconnect Rear Cowl

Disconnect battery - and + (in that order)

Disconnect R/R plug (LH side of the bike, next to the battery)

Remove front R/R bolt

Install VFRness into R/R plugs

Bolt ground wire under front R/R bolt

Position new fuse holder between original and main fuse panel

Connect + wire of VFRness to battery +

replace OEM 30 amp fuse with 20 amp supplied in kit

replace - cable

Test voltages for proper charging

reinstall rear cowl and seat

ride it like you stole it

[Tightwad]

To keep this altogether, I quoted this from the Modifications area.

I'm not sure if I am one of the first to put the VFRness on a 2000 VFR, but Tightwad was looking for some fit / finish information for how the kit worked on the 2000/2001 models and I promised him I would take notes and post a quick how to. Overall, the product is well made and Tightwad was helpful in answering a few of my dumb questions.

I still need to ride around on the bike for a few hours with the new harness just to make sure all is OK (don't ask...work has been hellish) and I also want to check for the signal wire issue and check the charging voltages. I haven't had any R/R problems yet (knock on wood) so I don't expect any issues post install.

Sorry is a few of these steps are "duh" in nature...

Remove the seat.

Remove the tail fairing (six allen bolts and four wire harnesses to the tail lights)

Remove the battery box cover.

IMG_0389.JPG

Disconnect the battery wires...watch the little nut on the bottom side of the connector!

The R/R is located on the left side of the bikle under the tail fairing. This should be pretty obvious once the fairing comes off.

IMG_0388.JPG

Remove the two bolts holding the R/R in place. be sure to watch for the nut on the back to fall off, or be prepared with a long, twisty magnet to retrieve them when they fall...ask me how I know that one.

IMG_0387.JPG

There are two wiring harnesses coming from the R/R. You only need to unplug one of them...the clearish colored one. Leave the white one connected.

IMG_0390.JPG

I also took the time to gently push / prod the stock wiring harness as much out of the way as possible. You can see here I zip-tied the harness to the frame rail. Take a few minutes at this point to clean things up, wipe off dirt, and generally try to straighten up anything which looks "hangy" or loose.

IMG_0392.JPG

Plug in the connectors of the VFRness...one goes into the factory plug, and the other goes toward the R/R. They will only fit one way. Now it's time to start thinking about where you want the extra wires to route. Honestly there isn't a lot of room to play with, and I recommend playing with a few options until you get something neat and tidy with no kinks in the wires. I guess you truly don't have to unbolt the R/R completely, but I think it helps to have that loose to play with wire route options. (The two loomed wires in the center are the new harness.)

Step 1

IMG_0393.JPG

Step 2

IMG_0394.JPG

Step 3

IMG_0395.JPG

Tightwad recommends bolting the harness ground to the R/R itself...I'm sure to save some wire and some space. I double checked the ground there and it was present as long as I scraped a little paint off things to get a good contact (although the wire has a ground through the harness anyway...I also found). You could perhaps grind some paint from the sub frame and make a new ground if you like.

The "extra" 20 amp fuse has plenty of wire to be put somewhere you feel comfy with. I chose to put it more or less right next to the stock 30 amp fuse. (Don't forget to change the 30 amp fuse to the supplied 20 amp fuse.)

IMG_0397.JPG

IMG_0391.JPG

I also purchased the access plug panel, and with the Sargent Seat I had plenty of room to install it just aft of the battery box. Install is pretty easy...the purple wires connect the relays to each other...then just wire up pos and neg to the battery terminals.

IMG_0399.JPG

Getting the extra wires onto the battery terminals using the stock screw took a little effort. I stuck a small pick under the nut on the terminal so it would be held up high enough to allow me to start the bolt and cinch everything up. I also had to trim a little of the battery box cover away to make it fit over the new VFRness wires.

IMG_0396.JPG

Once you get that done, you're done. Check to make sure all the electrics work and the bike starts. Do the charging test (as recommended by Tightwad and many others here...) and then put everything back together.

I will update this post with my charging test results and the sensor wire fix (if necessary) as soon as I get a chance.

If I missed something, or you have questions, please chime in.

[Guest pontiac_banshee]

HELPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP

ELECTROSPORT HAS PULLED ALL THEIR 3 GENERATION R/R's FROM THE SHELVES!!!!!!!!!!!!

THEY HAVE BEEN SELLING DEFECTIVE UNITS IT SOUNDS LIKE FOR SOME TIME.

I CALLED LAST WEEK I WENT THROUGH THE SAME CRAP WITH THE TECH SUPPORT THAT I DID BEFORE. DIODE TEST SAID BAD BAD R/R. THE TECH SAID HE WOULD CROSS SHIP ME A NEW ONE BUT EITHER HE WASN'T TOLD THEY WERE PULLING THEM OR WAS JUST TRYING TO GET ME TO GO AWAY!!!!!!!!!!!! YAH I AM GOING AWAY TO THEIER COMPETITOR. THEY WANT TO GIVE ME A CREDIT UNTIL THE NEW ONES COME

WANTED TO THROW THIS IN HERE FOR THOSE THAT MAY BE TRYING TO DIAGNOSE ISSUES. YAHHHHHHHHH ITS THEIR RR THAT IS NOT WORKING,

[Guest pontiac_banshee]

I have been going through this post and have not found anything about third generations???? They have 5 wires - 3-Yellow 1-Red 1-Green no black. As you can see from my FYI post from above I have been fighting the wrong fight and now have to start over again.

Question 1: Is there a harness being looked at for 3rd generation???? Ricks Electric has the connectors.

I was hoping to build a harness that would relocate the R/R somewhere else but have not decided just where yet.

Question 2: Does anyone have a recommendation for another R/R other than Ricks?? Anyone bought from www.regulatorrectifier.com

[Tightwad]

I have been going through this post and have not found anything about third generations???? They have 5 wires - 3-Yellow 1-Red 1-Green no black. As you can see from my FYI post from above I have been fighting the wrong fight and now have to start over again.

Question 1: Is there a harness being looked at for 3rd generation???? Ricks Electric has the connectors.

I was hoping to build a harness that would relocate the R/R somewhere else but have not decided just where yet.

Question 2: Does anyone have a recommendation for another R/R other than Ricks?? Anyone bought from www.regulatorrectifier.com

While I responded to you in email, I thought it would be helpful for others who may have the same questions to see them answered, as best I know.

The extra Red and Green wire are just redundancy....I like Redundancy.

I feel the OEM design is inherently a weak link, and that an upgraded OEM model will just be an upgraded weak link. If I had a 3rd-4th gen, I would find a way to install a better R/R design. There is enough room there for changing it, and the wiring would have to be changed as well, but it would be worth the effort.

As far as a VFRness for the 3rd-4th gens, the problem is really that the R/R has the plug molded into it, and no replacements are to be had.

[Misspent Youth]

FWIW, I recently a sold a '92 w/20K miles on it and what appeared to be the original R/R and it put out a solid 14.7v across the board, way better than my '98 did stock, or even with the upgraded unit.

[Baileyrock]

Post purged for easier reading.

[Guest Regulatorrectifier.com]

Post purged for easier reading.

We have the best VFR 800 regulator rectifier on the market.

Check it out!

http://www.regulatorrectifier.com/catalog/...fier-p-236.html

Scott

www.regulatorrectifier.com

[Baileyrock]

Post purged for easier reading.

We have the best VFR 800 regulator rectifier on the market.

Check it out!

http://www.regulatorrectifier.com/catalog/...fier-p-236.html

Scott

www.regulatorrectifier.com

PM sent about posting.

[Dutchy]

Post purged for easier reading.

We have the best VFR 800 regulator rectifier on the market.

Check it out!

http://www.regulatorrectifier.com/catalog/...fier-p-236.html

Scott

www.regulatorrectifier.com

PM sent about posting.

If anything, adds like this (post count 3....) will make me NOT buy there........

My money would be on Tightwad instead.... :thumbsup:

[Guest DSMIV]

OK folks, this is my first post. I have a 96' VFR750 with 27k on it and what appears to be a bad regulator rectifier. The local shop here in prescott wants 241.00 to order it. I have been all over trying to find the best deal .... so what manufacturer is the best Electrosport, Honda, or Shindegen ... best price? Help! This issue is enough to make me drink again.

Thanks in advance very much!

[Tightwad]

OK folks, this is my first post. I have a 96' VFR750 with 27k on it and what appears to be a bad regulator rectifier. The local shop here in prescott wants 241.00 to order it. I have been all over trying to find the best deal .... so what manufacturer is the best Electrosport, Honda, or Shindegen ... best price? Help! This issue is enough to make me drink again.

Thanks in advance very much!

While this is much too late to help I am sure, Ricks offers an R/R for the 750, and I can sell them for $115.

[Guest fxstc111]

OK folks, this is my first post. I have a 96' VFR750 with 27k on it and what appears to be a bad regulator rectifier. The local shop here in prescott wants 241.00 to order it. I have been all over trying to find the best deal .... so what manufacturer is the best Electrosport, Honda, or Shindegen ... best price? Help! This issue is enough to make me drink again.

Thanks in advance very much!

grab it if its a oem, before you install it check all your electrics out as i truly belive the r/r is getting a bad rap for other systems causing the r/r to go south before its time.

[Knife]

I finally got around to installing Tightwad's VFRness on my '98. Wow! What an amazing difference. I went through the recommended test routine, and the readings are exactly as Tightwad said they would be. I have never seen these readings before. Thanks, Tightwad. And for those of you who haven't taken advantage of this modification, do it. Couldn't be easier. :goofy: