Track Day Tires

[scotinexcile]

I am resigned to getting new tires for my track day on June 2nd. I know they will need changed out after the track day, very soon after the track day :pissed:

I am looking for advice on the best track day tires to get, that I can use on the road a couple of days before and a while after(till I get to teh shop to change them again)

I read the threads on tires and lots of street tire threads but I did not see one on track tires. I dont want to buy track tires only, they need to be on the road for at least a couple of days.

Any help is much appreciated :thumbsup:

[PhantomNext]

Pilot Power 2CT, you can put about 2-3 track days on them along with probably a couple thousand miles. My buddy has them on his SV1000S and he already has 2 track days and about 3k miles on them. I don't think they will last for another track day but they are fine for street running.

Best tire out there for that combo! It's all I run on any of my bikes that I know are going to do track days. I don't have any track days coming up (planned) so I'm going to run these new Metzlers off (came on the bike) before I buy my new Power 2CT's.

[Baileyrock]

Pilot Powers or Diablo Corsa III's make great track tires and you can ride to and from the track if you like! :thumbsup:

I also hear M3's make good track tires too, but I haven't used them myself!

These type of tires warm up very fast, are not heat cycle sensitive(not really) and don't need warmers.

Unless your racing, no need to buy Race tires. I don't know what level you ride at, but I just did two different track days on a set of Corsa III's with great results and I Push hard in the Advanced/Expert track group(CBR) and they never slipped once other than from giving it too much throttle coming out of certain turns that even a Race tire would spin up on.

Have fun and take your time building speed! :thumbsup:

[scotinexcile]

Thanks guys, i will start price shopping between those two :pissed:

My race level is chasing and passing any Hyabusa on the track *LOL* Love hearing them say "What kind of bike is that?"

[Darth Bling]

Excellent thread Scotinexile! I've been wondering about this myself. :thumbsup:

What are your guys' thoughts on running the standard Pirelli Diablo tire on the track??

[SpamIAm]

I have run the Pirelli Diablo Corsa III for my first two trackdays, and will be putting them on again for my third on May 30 (it helps to have a spare set of rims!). I've been very pleased with these tires - very predictable and confidence-inspiring, they never felt like they were going to break loose or do anything unexpected. I have not run the Pilot Powers so I have no comparison for you, but I'd say you can't go wrong with the Corsa IIIs!

[scotinexcile]

Now the question is what size Front and what Size back do I order?

Took a look in the shop manual, not listed. Searched the forum cant get a hit for tire size for my 2002

Thanks guys :thumbsup:

[Guest]

Ran Metzler M-1's in Jan @ Laguna Seca. Had good grip no slips, and it was cold! My buddy (on an '02 VFR also) had something else on and was a bit loose... I did notice that the M-1's were wearing much faster than his - noticable after each 20 min session..... but I'll take the grip -vs- wear any day!

I don't think I would change sizes from the standard..... Don't think you'll have any recongnizable difference between stnd and non... and prolly easier to find for the $$.

Good luck and have fun!!

Scott

[sckego]

Your tire size is probably going to be a 120/70-17 front and 180 rear... I think...

As for the tires, I was in much the same situation as you--my current tires didn't have enough tread to pass tech, but I also didn't want to go out and buy a $300 set of Pilot Powers or something and use up a chunk of their life in one day. What I ended up doing was picking up a set of Pilot Race takeoffs. I got a set for $80, and had them mounted yesterday (trackday is on monday). They've still got a whole bunch of tread left, and will probably be good for another few weeks of riding after the trackday. Once they're gone, then I'll put on a new set of street tires. I figure its also good insurance to have... knowing that even if I do something dumb midcorner, there's still a wholeheckuvalotta grip there to keep me upright.

[scotinexcile]

Where did you pick up the Race takeoffs?

Rear 190/55/17 Front 120/70/17 I just called the Honda shop *grin*

[jeremy556]

Where did you pick up the Race takeoffs?

Rear 190/55/17 Front 120/70/17 I just called the Honda shop *grin*

Use a 180/55/17 rear

Check WERA or whatever local racing orgs' boards for take offs for sale.

[PhantomNext]

Where did you pick up the Race takeoffs?

Rear 190/55/17 Front 120/70/17 I just called the Honda shop *grin*

Find a new Honda Shop the rear is a 180!!!!!

I wouldn't run race tires on the street, they are very sensitive to heat cycles, they are very poor in the rain and they wear much faster. Not to mention if you don't have another set of rims you have to pay 2x for mounting and balancing so depending on the shop (and if you do it yourself) this adds anywhere from $40 to $100 doing quick tire changes so anything saved is spent on tire changes.

This is an expensive hobby, trying to pinch a buck hear and a buck there isn't a good idea. Buy the right tires for the Job. You don't have tire warmers so your going to be cycling the heat on the race tires a lot cause you can't keep them up to temp when you come off the track. Also they take about another lap or 2 to really heat up and in my experience you only get about 10-12 laps per session anyway so waiting another 2 laps before you can go gonzo cause your tires aren't up to temp isn't fun either.

The Pilot Power 2CT was tested on a full on MotoGP bike and the rider was only 8 seconds off his best ever lap at the track they were on. They have more grip then you'll know how to use and you'll get a couple thousand miles of use out of them along with a couple track days.

Here are my Pilot Power 2CT's after my track day, still looking almost brand new!

Front:

Rear:

[Baileyrock]

Excellent thread Scotinexile! I've been wondering about this myself. :thumbsup:

What are your guys' thoughts on running the standard Pirelli Diablo tire on the track??

Depending on what class and how hard you push the standard Diablo is a great tire, but not as sticky as the Corsa's! If they have plenty of tread you should be fine. Corsa III's would be better! :rolleyes:

[scotinexcile]

looks like a contest between the diablos Corsa III and the Power pilot 2CT.

I am not really "penny pinching" my reason for buying new tires is to have the safest track experience I can have. I know I am never going to be able to keep up with Tim!!!(By the way Tim i did not see you neame on the kegwin site as a confirmed rider for the Saturday, you may want to check with them. I looked for Tim and Darth Blind and could not find any mention *LOL*")

Anyway back to the track stuff. i also orderd new brake pads and will fit those,change the clutch and brake fluid. I just changed teh oil and oil filter so I think i am ready withmaybe the exception of changing the air filter!!

What I found the after my first track day is that I will NEVER puch the bike as far as it is capable of going. I got such confidence out of that day, knowing if I go into a corner to hot on the street then DONT TOUCH THE BRAKES, let the bike ride around, lean it over, she can take more than I will every be prepared to give her :D

[PhantomNext]

If I remember MQ105 had the Corsa III's on his VFR and they wore out much faster then the Pilot Powers. The PP's are just THE tire to have. Decent longevity and amazing grip and road feel. They pretty much win every test hands down. I do have to say though that the III"s are very good and I don't think you'll out ride either tire.

[Baileyrock]

If I remember MQ105 had the Corsa III's on his VFR and they wore out much faster then the Pilot Powers. The PP's are just THE tire to have. Decent longevity and amazing grip and road feel. They pretty much win every test hands down. I do have to say though that the III"s are very good and I don't think you'll out ride either tire.

The faster you ride, the faster they wear! :rolleyes:

[Guest]

I've not tried the pilot power 2ct's or the diabloIII's, but I've done a track day on standard diablos. I'm not a vastly experienced trackdayer, I've done 6 in total, but I know enough to say that if you predict a trackday and a few weeks riding after then you're either riding like a nutter on the road or you're looking at very very soft tyres. I'd say you'd be able to manage 4 track days out of one set of tyres, and even then the edges will be pretty nuch dead but there'll be a good bit of life left in the centre for more steady road riding. It also depends a lot on the way you ride, the general temp of the track and the actual make-up of the tarmac you're riding upon. I did a trackday last summer and it was hitting 33degC (a little over 100degF at a guess) and peoples side stands were sinking into the tarmac in the paddock. The tyre wear that day was pretty heavy as the track was in full sunlight and I was on dunlop 208rr's, a fairly soft tyre. Even at that rate, I'd expect me to be able to do 2 or 3 track days without needing new rubber.

I've been out on a fairly cool, overcast day on track on a pair of diablos on a VFR800, they were good, certainly 'trackable', but not the very best tyre I ever did use. That said, I had a good bit left for road use after, I kept them for another year or so. I would honestly say that if you're on track the tyres will be the third barrier you have to cross. The first will be the things you've learnt road riding, the bike and its suspension settings which you're used to will be the second.

The thing is that VFR has a few limitations when you really start pressing on when tracking it. The suspension's a little soft, the centre stand will probably meet the tarmac a few times and the biggest problem for me was the linked brakes. On very hard braking all of your weight is going to be on the front; even without touching the back brake pedal you may find the rear locking up and it start to 'swish' about a little, which while looking like you're Mick Doohan is a little unnerving if you're not Mick Doohan. And I'm certainly not Mick Doohan....

But on the plus side you can do track days on it as a relative novice, it's quite a flattering bike at times. Really, if it's your first track day then you're a very skilled rider if you're runnning out of grip or chassis composure of a VFR. Here's what you get if you ride it sort of hardish...

[Darth Bling]

(By the way Tim i did not see you neame on the kegwin site as a confirmed rider for the Saturday, you may want to check with them. I looked for Tim and Darth Blind and could not find any mention *LOL*")

Group B- :rolleyes:

[jeremy556]

If I remember MQ105 had the Corsa III's on his VFR and they wore out much faster then the Pilot Powers. The PP's are just THE tire to have. Decent longevity and amazing grip and road feel. They pretty much win every test hands down. I do have to say though that the III"s are very good and I don't think you'll out ride either tire.

The faster you ride, the faster they wear! :rolleyes:

Do I detect some jealousy there? :lol:

[WERA910]

Just another vote for the Pilot Power 2CT's... I've got a set in the basement going on my track bike before the next flog... they were only 245.00 from Sportbike Track Time.

[BusyLittleShop]

I'm switching my DOT race tires for High Performance Sport tires

after reading Sport Riders shoot out where they sampled all the

different tire categories to test how they stack up... In summary

They gathered a lot of data during this test and learned a lot about each

tire and our own preferences for tires. Much of the objective data show

the more track-oriented tires to be superior when it comes to lap times

or speed,and certainly that is the case. However,on both street and

track that increasing performance comes with more of a requirement

from the rider. Setup is more important with the grippier tires, stability

and compliance suffer,and conditions have to be just right to access

that extra traction. Over 80 percent of our street test loop,the four

types of tires averaged within a couple mph of one another,a strong indication

that factors other than what tire you are on dictate your pace on the road.

Surprise No.1 for us was just how capable the sport-touring tires are,

especially on the street. If you're not looking for that last

10 percent of performance from your bike,sport-touring tires have

excellent traction and predictability and will provide thousands of

miles of use.

Surprise NO.2 was how good sport tires were on the track. Both

brands provided great,consistent performance,lapping an average of

just a half-second off the DOT race buns. They carded the best scores

on the street portion of the test and required little in the way of

set up to get comfortable with.

Surprise NO.3 was just how much the DOT race tires sacrificed on

the street compared with the sport and hybrid tires. Neither of our

riders felt comfortable on the majority of the test loop with the race

tires, and even though the tires have incredible grip levels and are amazingly

fun on a fast,smooth road,that performance is not worth the trade off

that must be made the rest of the time. At the race track the DOT race

tires are clearly a step above the street tires, and there is even

more of a performance gap than our lap times indicate-both our riders

felt they could go faster than they did with more set up time. Again,that is the

price that must be paid for great grip and steering from a race tire.

The final piece of the puzzle is this: To get the best performance,

you must be honest with yourself when it comes to choosing a tire.

They given you the answers. You just need to figure out what questions

to ask yourself.

SPORT-TOURING

DUNLOP D220ST AND MICHELIN PILOT ROAD

Rating Street: 78.7 Track: 75.5 Average lap time: 1:12.72

......Street v Track

General:. 7.7 7.5

Braking;. 8.0 8.0

Traction; 7.9 7.8

Steering; 7.6 7.2

SPORT

DUNLOP SPORT MAX QUALIFIER AND MICHELIN PILOT POWER

Rating Street:89.5 Track:87.3 Average lap time: 1:08.90

......Street v Track

General:. 9.0 8.9

Braking;. 8.9 8.7

Traction; 9.0 8.7

Steering; 8.8 8.4

HIGH-PERFORMANCE SPORT

DUNLOP D208GP AND MICHELIN PILOT POWER 2CT

Rating Street:89.3 Track:88.8 Average lap time: 1:08.97

......Street v Track

General:. 8.8 8.8

Braking;. 9.0 9.0

Traction; 9.2 8.9

Steering; 8.6 8.8

DOT RACE

DUNLOP SPORT MAXGP AND MICHELIN POWER RACE

Rating Street:89.4 Track:92.8 Average lap time: 1:08.447

......Street v Track

General:. 8.4 9.1

Braking;. 9.3 9.5

Traction; 9.3 9.6

Steering; 9.3 9.3

RACE SLICKS

DUNLOP KR106/108 AND MICHELIN PILOT

Rating Street: NAT rack:93.2 Average lap time: 1:08.23

.........Track

General:. 9.0

Braking;. 9.5

Traction; 9.9

Steering; 9.1

My Metzeler Rennsport High Performance *Street* tires after a Thunder Hill Track day...

[BusyLittleShop]

Where did you pick up the Race takeoffs?

Rear 190/55/17 Front 120/70/17 I just called the Honda shop *grin*

Mercy Allan... Race take offs are a real crap shoot... All to often while you're struggling with generating

enough heat on a used tire that maybe gotten hard from too many heat cycles, your buddies on their

high-performance street tires will be long gone...

You won't like a 190/55 for it's a very large diameter tire... I think the dealer meant to say 190/50... or a 180/55...

[fallzboater]

Excellent thread Scotinexile! I've been wondering about this myself. :thumbsup:

What are your guys' thoughts on running the standard Pirelli Diablo tire on the track??

I just did, with excellent results. Basically zero warm up time, and plenty of stick After a lot of mountain-road practice and two track days, I'm not pushing hard enough on the track that I need better than the Diablos. I'm guessing only the fastest 1% of the riders here could use more stick than the standard Diablos (Pilot Powers, etc.). Probably nobody needs more in at least their first couple of track days. I ran 30 cold front and rear, but ask tire reps or instructors at the track what they recommend (maybe a bit higher in hot weather on the heavier VFR). I had a bit of bluing out at the edges, with 1/16-1/8" chicken strips left at the front. The rubber doesn't ball up like track tires, but it does get real tacky when hot.

Also, the track doesn't take much out of the centers of your tires. It's unlikely that you'll do more than 150 miles or so in a typical track day. You'll probably do some hard braking while upright, but you'll be putting most of the power down while still at some lean angle. So, you'll wear the sides, but the track will take very few street miles out of the tires. Don't show up at the track with squared-off tires, but don't worry about getting a bunch of miles out of them afterwards.

[fallzboater]

Where did you pick up the Race takeoffs?

Rear 190/55/17 Front 120/70/17 I just called the Honda shop *grin*

Don't run a 190 on your 5.5" rim in any case (50 or 55).

[AussieinUSA]

If I remember MQ105 had the Corsa III's on his VFR and they wore out much faster then the Pilot Powers. The PP's are just THE tire to have. Decent longevity and amazing grip and road feel. They pretty much win every test hands down. I do have to say though that the III"s are very good and I don't think you'll out ride either tire.

:rolleyes: I agree, very impressed by the Pilot powers, couldn't be happier.