Track Day Tires

[Guest]

Excellent thread Scotinexile! I've been wondering about this myself. :thumbsup:

What are your guys' thoughts on running the standard Pirelli Diablo tire on the track??

Depends on your true skills as a rider.

I am a cornerworker and ex racer.

I have seen far too many people, including myself, low side on the street Diablo's.

They are a great street tire, but when you push them on the track, especially on a hot day they get greasy without much warning.

The end effect is, you have been turning nice smooth fast laps and towards the end of your session, your tires suddenly act as if you just rode through coolant. Not fun, even if you can ride it out. It's the sudden loss with out feed back before it happens that gets you.

(I see a lot of guys dump Ducati's in their 2nd or 3rd session of the day on Diablos. Now, it is much less pronounced on Diablo Corsa's. They also work well on the street. Then Super Corsa's are better on the track than the street.)

Me, I run Dunlops on the track and Conti's on the street.)

[BusyLittleShop]

I have seen far too many people, including myself, low side on the street Diablo's.

I have seen far too many people blame tires when their technique was the main reason for a low slide...

A bike in a slide will handle in a predictable manner... it's the rider that's the wild variable component...

Front end slides usually occur after too much weight forces the tire past it's traction limit... The most likely

cause is rider error... a rider must get on the gas soon enough to transfer some weight from the front tire

to the rear tire... ideally you want a 40% 60% front to rear weight bias... far more front end slides have

been saved than lost using this technique...

They are a great street tire, but when you push them on the track, especially on a hot day they get greasy without much warning.

Don't you agree that getting greasy is by nature a gradual and progressive warning that the tire is working

beyond it's temp range rather than happening all of a sudden??? we have to give street tires their do...

they are... after all... designed to give a rider plenty of warning that they have had enough whereas race

tires give it up all at once...

[Guest]

Don't you agree that getting greasy is by nature a gradual and progressive warning that the tire is working

beyond it's temp range rather than happening all of a sudden??? we have to give street tires their do...

they are... after all... designed to give a rider plenty of warning that they have had enough whereas race

tires give it up all at once...

That seems to be the problem with the street Diablos. On the track they are nice and predictable and then, just go instantly. And most of the slides I witnessed involved the rear losing grip and sliding out. I for one am glad that they don't always get traction again (now sliding on pegs, pipes, etc)as it would be a recipe for a high side if it gripped while stepped out.

Also, remember that most (not all)people out on trackdays are there to gain the experiance they don't yet have. Look at the lap time differences between the rider groups!

I have very limited time on Michelins, but they seem to be a very forgiving tire in most applications. And, they seem to give the least trouble to noobs to the track.

My own OPINION is that most people are pushing beyond their limits and need something very forgiving until they are used to what is going on. I also notice that dirt riders fair better the first few trackdays than street only riders.

JOIBO

[BusyLittleShop]

That seems to be the problem with the street Diablos. On the track they are nice and predictable and then, just go instantly.

I don't know of any street tire that goes instantly... and I can not find any corroborating evidence to your

warning that the Pirelli Diablo has had traction problems... rather it's more like Performance Bike's rating...

[superfunkomatic]

alan,

the tire sizes (stock) are - 120 70 ZR 17 and 180 55 ZR 17.

someone mentioned in the last few days a US deal on tires for pirelli diablos for 159/pair - check recent posts. see the manual -

http://www.toolbarmedia.com/vfr_manual/hon...manual_2002.pdf

[Guest]

Might have something to do with local conditions also. Today, the TRACK temps were 158F. Damn few tires get along with that. You could leave your warmers unplugged and just do a hard out lap and be up to temp on your race tires before the grid.

Besides, the original poster asked for opinions and experiances. I gave him mine. We all know opinions are like bung holes, everyone has one. (And I won't put the plain Diablo's on another bike I intend to tool around a track on.)

[BusyLittleShop]

Might have something to do with local conditions also. Today, the TRACK temps were 158F.

What was the track temp when you low slided on the Diablos???

[Guest]

Might have something to do with local conditions also. Today, the TRACK temps were 158F.

What was the track temp when you low slided on the Diablos???

Was in the 130's before the session I low sided.

I was out practicing smoothness drills. Lap times seconds slower than normal pace. No shifting and minmal braking. On the 8th lap in a fast right hand at exit the rear let go with out ANY warning or feedback. Never felt (or more truely, not felt) anything like it on any other tire. As I said earlier, it was suddenly like I was on ice. I was nowhere near the lean angle or loading I'd put the same tires through earlier while they were colder and they were still grippy.

They are great street tires, I just won't put 'em on the track again.

[BusyLittleShop]

Was in the 130's before the session I low sided.

I was out practicing smoothness drills. Lap times seconds slower than normal pace. No shifting and minmal braking. On the 8th lap in a fast right hand at exit the rear let go with out ANY warning or feedback. Never felt (or more truely, not felt) anything like it on any other tire. As I said earlier, it was suddenly like I was on ice. I was nowhere near the lean angle or loading I'd put the same tires through earlier while they were colder and they were still grippy.

They are great street tires, I just won't put 'em on the track again.

It sounds like you need an up grade to the Pirelli Supercorsa...

Immense grip when hot and stable when cold. No tread to speak of, so treat with care in the wet. Seem to

wear well and are stable at silly speeds. Use the SC1 grade on the front and an SC2 or 3 at the rear - the

SC1 rear seems to cut up too easily unless your rear shock is well set up. Good tyres, but the Rennsport

front is better - the tread pattern doesn't step so much as it wears.

Pirelli Supercorsa

I found this to support your warning:

Pirelli Diablo -The road version of the Supercorsa, with more tread pattern so better in the wet and they

warm up more quickly. Top tyres, and the Corsa version is mega grippy. A bit of abuse on a hot day at the

Ring showed the tyres well able to cope with very little shredding. But the non-corsa road tyre can let go

when really hot as experienced by yours truly on a track day that ended up with my bike highsiding itself

into oblivion coming out of Clearways. I'm convinced this would not have happened if I'd had a Rennsport or

Supercorsa on the rear. Can't vouch for the Diablo Corsa rear as I have not tried it yet, but the front's are

superb and wear evenly and well across the entire profile of the tyre, offering loads of feel even at extreme

angles of dangle, which is no mean feat for a treaded tyre.

Diablo

[jeremy556]

I cannot recommend the Power 2CTs. I have run a lot of sets of regular powers and always loved them.

The 2CTs needed a lot of weight to balance them, generally the regular powers didn’t need any weight if the wheel was balanced.

On this TexasMac trip I had to replace my rear tire with 1823 miles – it was past the wear bars on the left side, at the wear bars on the right, with quite a bit of center tread left.

The profile of the tire is much more rounded than the regular power’s V shape, which I prefer.

I don’t know why, since it uses a softer compound on the sides than the regular powers, but I was sliding the rear all over the place on clean dry pavement without that much throttle. The regular powers stuck a lot better on the rear end. Front tire, no complaints, it stuck well under some pretty heavy braking while leaned way over.

I would say I just got a fluke bad rear tire, except that Kevin also put on a new set of 2CTs for this trip and complained of the same rear end sliding problems. Perhaps we got them from a bad batch of tires? Anyway, I am going to stick with the Powers for the foreseeable future.

[Guest]

I really rate the Bridgestone 014s for the VFR. I have managed to squeeze 2 track days out of mine and several thousand road miles in between. I ride the bike very hard on the track, getting them nice a globby edge to edge and they have stuck like glue, no problems whatsover.

If I was riding an R1 or 999 or the like, I might go with a more race orientated tyre, but not for the VFR, I really rate the 014s

I have a new set ready to fit after my last track day.

[Guest]

I use regular Pilot Powers on my f2 track bike. For the price I cant argue with the track mileage I get out of them, they slide alot at my pace but I can usually get 6 days from them. I ride in slower half of Nesba Adv group, and I've been wanting to try the SC pros but I can't justify only getting 2 days out of a more expensive tire. I've always heard that you should ride a street tire untill you can slide them around and control it. The DOT race tires are from what I've heard are really only good for 1 to 2 seconds per lap depending on the track over really good street rubber.

[Guest]

+1 for diablo corsa iii's. I've had mine on for about 5 months now, two track days (admittedly novice). they are holding up great. I would highly recommend them. I got mine when Pirelli was giving the front tire away for free with purchase of a rear, so i got a F+R set for about $160.

[jeremy556]

I use regular Pilot Powers on my f2 track bike. For the price I cant argue with the track mileage I get out of them, they slide alot at my pace but I can usually get 6 days from them. I ride in slower half of Nesba Adv group, and I've been wanting to try the SC pros but I can't justify only getting 2 days out of a more expensive tire. I've always heard that you should ride a street tire untill you can slide them around and control it. The DOT race tires are from what I've heard are really only good for 1 to 2 seconds per lap depending on the track over really good street rubber.

Are they sliding more towards the end of a session? I found that mine were getting slippery after 5-6 laps even if I bumped up the pressure a bit.

You should be able to get decent mileage from DOTs on an F2 until you pickup a few more seconds.

[Hobie1dog]

That seems to be the problem with the street Diablos. On the track they are nice and predictable and then, just go instantly.

I don't know of any street tire that goes instantly... and I can not find any corroborating evidence to your

warning that the Pirelli Diablo has had traction problems... rather it's more like Performance Bike's rating...

What issue was the tire test in? How many tires did they test?

[evl_twn]

I don't have any firsthand knowledge of the 2CT's, but I have the Pilot Power on the XR650R motard. They've held up pretty good so far.

I've also got the Diablo Corsa III's on the CBR1000RR, and they are an excellent tire, even offering really good grip on a drying track yesterday at Putnam.

I think you'd be fine with either one.