Mohawk

I'm not using an autotune, I am fitting a seperate AFR meter, with a headed sensor.

Well if you ever get a dyno run done, you'd know that they run a thin pipe down your silencer about 2 feet. So mine is placed much deeper into the exhaust than the dyno version which live in a sniffer box. The sensor is heated so does not matter where you place it..

Hi Larry, well feel free to quote me, but as to wear rates, unless I strip an engine when brand new & un run & then measure every bearing surface with a micrometer then do X miles & do it all again, I'd never know. Suffice to say that I've never had a bike problem caused by oil or oil related issues, but the most miles I ever put on a bike between oil changes is 3000miles. My last car I sold (Honda CR-V) was 13 years old, with 139K miles on it. I owned it from new & the oil was changed every 12k miles in accordance with the manufacturer recommendations. Run on 10w30 and boy could you tell the difference after an oil change, it felt like a new engine. Unfortunately to new owner told me it ate a piston at 142k miles :(

Hi Larry, well I'll be sticking with 10w30 as no perceived or proven worth in the lower W numbers from my PoV based on my area ambient temps. The lesser stretch from 10-30 compared to 0-30 means less additives & a more consistently stable oil. It is interesting that the multigrade 30's operate as 10 weight oils at 100C, but then I never looked at what a straight 30 weight oil operated like at 100C which is also 10 for those that may be interested. So as far as synthetics are concerned, they used to be Grade IV oils which are chemically created lubricants, but now almost all are Grade III dyno oils, yes some have been micro filtered to provide a uniform molecule size, but as Shell demonstrated the COST is more than stock oils, but much less than true synthetics, yet the price we the consumer pay has not reduced, even though what we are buying is fake by name i.e. its NOT synthetic, it is only highly refined ! So should be 25-30% cheaper, assuming its double the price of normal good quality dino oil.

Oh and another thing. Synthetic is NO longer true, as only a couple of companies now make true synthetic oils. This web link is great debunk of the rip off we are faced with when we pay premium for what we think is synthetic due to OLD Judges, being useless & ruling that anything can be called synthetic, when we all expect a 100% man made product that never came out of a hole in the ground ! http://www.synlube.com/synthetic.htm Mobil-1 used to be, but alas no more. Strange they replace the synthetic with dino oil but the price stayed the same ! Like much in this world QUALITY has been sacrificed on the accountants alter by the marketing man !

Just remember regardless of what you use, clean fresh oil is better than dirty used oil ! Also remember what an old mechanic told me many years ago, you will do your engine much more harm running without oil than without fuel ! Well from the Amsoil article, 0w is just a little better than 5w, which has the same cold pumping criteria as 10w & 15w and the same characteristics just at different MINUS degrees C temperatures. 0w=3250cp@-30 where 5w,10w,15w all measure 3500cp @ -25C,-20C,-15C respectively. Or you could say that the 0w has a viscosity 7% lower than 5/10/15w. For reference water @20C = 1cp, at minus 10 its ice so a poor reference point. Will this protect your cold start engine 7% faster ? Probably not, only way to tell that would be to block an oil feed to the most remote part of an engine oil system & then measure time from starter press to oil pressure cut off by blocking switch. Lets not forget that engine designers take into account this lack of oil. by designing in oil galleries in the heads & other locations. Open any engine that has been standing for a few days & you will find these pockets, that are there to ensure critical bearings do NOT run dry ever. leave it for many months & the situation may be different. So who here runs their bike at below -10C ? You must be mad, but for most of the world -10C is a lower limit for normal use & most bike riders I know apart from working in their garage over winter would never ride if the temp was not at or above 0C just for convenience or preference, cold tyres & tarmac are no fun. Trust me I used to be a bike courier & losing a bike on black ice is no fun at all ! So if we assume that most people will NEVER start their bike below -10C then, then 10w (-20C) or 15w (-15C) are perfectly adequate as far as engine protection at cold start is concerned. Now to address Larry's points on the other end of the multigrade equation, 30w is more than acceptable for most uses again. remember the grading chart that Larry included a couple of posts back from his Honda manual, shows the air or cold engine temperature that you want to start your engine. There are again few places in the world where the ambient temperature would exceed 40C on a regular or constant basis, well anywhere you might want to ride ! As Larry's pressure tests show, every time the oil bypass valve opens, your engine is now pumping oil for no reason, so stick to a 5w or 10w30 unless you live somewhere where the ambient temperature you start your engine in exceeds -10C or +40C, I can't imagine there are many places where both would be exceeded in one day ! Remember YMMV

Sorry, yes up front on a standard 1098, was a comparison to the rages 4 small rads in the belly pan.

Re the RAGE cooling, here's what a 1098 race radiator looks like http://www.oppracing.com/images/uploaded/pr11279_1_1098-sbk-race-rs-radiator-water-oil-with-battery-bracket-relocator.jpg

Check out the Vyrus & now RAGE racers http://www.altoracing.co.uk/gallery/new-rage-bike-unveiling/ they have no front radiators & I had a chat with the big cheese at the NEC bike show in November. Their testing shows that this config reduces drag from air trying to ram through the rad at speed & also improves thermal efficiency by 25% so the bike has smaller/lighter radiators than most other racers with the same engine ! go figure, they have no fans & the rads work by thermal convection when stationary to ! So maybe Honda got it right with the side mount rads, just the reverse fan nonsence was the only issue. FYi I have electric water pump, works great, it pumps at same rate regardless of speed, so when slow it cools better & when fast its enough to cope with full chat power without problem due to the better cooling of higher airflow ! Win Win.

Just had a software update from the system checker on PC. No idea what was added or upgraded, anyone know ?

OK, well unless you measure the oil temperature on the way back to the pump from the cooler, then its a pointless exercise. The manufacturer will have done this in combination with the water cooling system for all world temperature zones. The fact they didn't change the spec for Aus or southern Europe indicates the system works well enough in all climates. The oil needs to reach approx 100c to evaporate water out & work at its best, much cooler & it will have water contaminates which is bad for our plain bearing engines & much more than 120c is bad for the oil, though its rated much higher. My bike makes 112whp & that is a 17% improvement over stock & in 2013 in 32C heat in southern England being caned on open roads it never got bothered, same in Spain last year. So unless your measure the oil temps & find them way off specs above then leave it alone.

Hey, CR what I meant, was for it to measure the O2 at high revs the bike must be at those high revs. Not sure of the speeding laws in Florida, but I can get a few minutes at 100mph, but that is not high revs. So as we don't have a gear indicator, as an aside a bit pissed the unit does not work out gears like the digital gear displays, i.e. Bike starts at idle, then first, burst of revs then revs set back as 2nd goes in etc ! Not a lot of programming ! But moving on. The only way to let the O2 sensors see high RPM fuelling is by running high rpm in the lower gears thus at lower almost legal speeds to get fuel readings, but having done that on the last 2 runs I have NOT seen any fuel adjustment suggestions above 7k RPM. Likewise looking at some of the Ducati forum posts on this unit, they don't seem to compensate at higher RPM based on the standard O2 sensors !

Well I guess the system needs some steady state throttle positions to make measurements then suggest adjustments. I have seen similar issues, but more rev related than TPS. As in it does not appear to make any suggested changes above 7Krpm.Even though I have done some short runs in 1st or 2nd at high revs to give it a steady throttle state. It may require a couple of tanks on a dyno to allow a set RPM at a set TPS position, to get some real adjustments. But in the end if the bike runs OK, then why bother. Gonna have to wait till spring now, as the roads here are cold, wet & salty.

Well the standard O2 sensors are NOT brought online until they are at operating temperature & this is displayed in the RB software. I assume it monitors the MTB in the same manner & thus only brings it into play when its ready !

Out of interest the Dimsport site instructions state 200kms (approx 120miles) !

Looking good, let us know how it goes on the road :)

Hey CR any update on your 4 O2 sensor setup & any dyno results ?

This mod is only for any bike running a PowerCommander. If you don't have one all you will do is make your engine run very rich & see your fuel mileage get very poor !

The whole deal with the O2 eliminators is it makes the ECU default to ONE setting which is system failure rich, thus the Power Commander can be programmed to correct this over rich state & will NEVER see a varying signal from the ECU when the ECU goes into closed loop mode. The eliminator or resistor serves one purpose & that is to keep the ECU error light OFF, it does this by allowing the sensor heating circuit to flow power, the resistance of the resistor does not really matter, the ECU only monitors voltage, the 330ohm was used as it roughly matches the draw of the sensor heater coil, but really any resistor that will allow flow will work, just don't use to high a one as it will melt the ECU ! In fact you only need one eliminator to achieve this, doesn't matter which O2 sensor cable you attach it to the ECU just bases all 4 injectors one the one sensor it thinks should be working due to the heater being on, rather than the standard 2 cylinders per sensor. You can test this by just unplugging one O2 sensor, the ECU will not show a fault, but will when both are disconnected. The ECU does not receive a sensor signal, so defaults to a fixed rich map, which is why it does not show an error !

Interesting info Phil, hope to get mine out tomorrow to see how it goes & what i can do with it.

Phil, does that mean you got your cams for the big bore engine ? I know the cordona plugs straight in from your earlier replies, but as others have discovered, the 5th gen has the gear lever connected straight to gear shaft, so a rod based shifter won't work. Cordona do make a lever tip unit, but for some reason its a lot more expensive, so I'm looking for alternatives.

I think I just answered my own question :) http://www.cordona.net/installations/pdf/GP%20SG%20instructions%20%201.4%2020121121.pdf

Question. What is the trigger for the quick shifter ? Looks like power on one pin, to earth on another with signal on the 3rd pin, but is it just a positive voltage trigger ? I can see the setting in the software to set the trigger voltage, so assume that part is variable, so in theory any positive feed on the sensor line could be made to trigger the QS !

Played some more with the RB Master software & nowhave options for defining the number of rows/columns, but they are a simple menu of fixed options, 40x8 etc, no means to specify the actuals you want. Busy converting PC custom values to RB rpm fields.

It appears the newer RB Master, does not allow you set the rows, it only allows start & end RPM. Was a bit confused, as I thought Yaman had missed my RPM increase, but when you reset it in the config it can be increased there. Found a good calculation for conrod piston stress increase with RPM. If the you divide the RPM increase by 100 then square the result it gives an estimate of the stress load % increase. So for me, the default VFR800 rev limiter is 12,200rpm, I asked for a 300rpm increase, so 300/100=3, 3x3=9% load increase. You can see why Yaman recommends a max of 500rpm rev increase by running the numbers. 500/100=5, 5x5=25% load increase which is significant, and probably close if not over the built in safety margin the manufacturers may have incorporated for longevity.