Jump to content

Frustrating stalling problem


Recommended Posts

Hopefully somebody can help with this issue. It is really making the ownership experience poor enough that I'm losing confidence in this bike. 2008 VFR800ABS Canadian model (lights always on)

 

Problem:  when idling for some period of time (e.g. a stop light), the FI light will sometimes start blinking, idle starts to sound off, and the bike will stall as soon as I give it any throttle. Bike will start again if I cycle the key and then run fine for a while until the next period of extended idling. I'm not sure if its in my head or not, but the engine doesn't seem too smooth at lower RPMs while underway.

 

Battery tests good. Put battery on tender last night and the bike stalled just a few minutes into my trip this morning when I let it idle for a couple of minutes.

 

Battery voltage is good and charging system is confirmed working with a multi meter as per service manual.

 

I have read about gen 5 bikes having a grounding block issue that can cause some electronic flaking out behaviors. Anybody ever have a similar issue to what I'm describing on a gen 6?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member Contributer

Regarding the battery - does "tests good" mean a load test or that you measured its voltage engine off?  The former is more definitive of battery health than only voltage.  Be sure of that before assuming anything else. An auto parts store can do the test for you.

Re grounds, yes there is a connector in the harness on the left side with a ground that should be inspected. Also, under the tank near its hinge is a bolt with a collection of harness grounds. Separate from that is the main battery ground. The former can be accessed with battery cover removal and a M5 hex, the latter requires removing the hinge bolts and lifting the tank a bit - a small piece of wood can prop it up. If they've never been touched, a treatment with Oxgard would be good maintenance for all those.  

Finally,  are any codes stored (you mentioned a blinking FI light)?  If so, read those and post them up.  

Also,  out of curiosity, how does the stator connector (3 yellow wires on the right side of the frame - remove right fairing to access) look?  Oxgard will do wonders for it BTW.

Checking all this costs you nothing and a tube of Oxgard is in the 5 to 10 Dollar range. You need to confirm good electrical system health before doing more diagnostics.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Battery was tested with a FOXWELL Car Battery Tester 12V Automotive 100-1100CCA Battery Analyzer Health/Faults Detector BT100 Pro. If the battery was bad would you expect it to flake out right after coming off a tender and would you expect the bike to have no problem with the electric starter?

 

PS thanks for the other info as well 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member Contributer

Ok, so the battery is good. A Battery Tender is sensitive to voltage, not the amperage that can be delivered. If the other items are eliminated other possible causes can be investigated.  

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I watched the video here on how to read the codes. 

 

That video was confusing because he pans quickly to the late gen6 style connector you that jumper and it doesn't even appear to be in the same place on the bike. Where is the service connector on a 2008? I can jumper it to be sure there are no stored codes.

 

Update I found it right side by ECU but damned if I can figure out how to get the red plastic cap off it. Finally got it off have to lift the little plastic tang on the bottom while pulling.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So the bike had a bunch of codes but honestly I have no idea if any have ever been cleared. So I recorded them on my phone and cleared the codes.

 

Started up and ran the bike for about 5 min in the garage and of course it did not act up. Checked codes again still clear. Think I will take it for a blast later and see if I can make it flake out, then check codes again.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member Contributer

Hi Mikus. For info, while riding if the ECM picks up a fault your Fi light should come On, not flash. When you are stationary and the Sidestand is Down then it should flash the Active code.

 

Have you checked the state of Main Fuse B, 30amp, next to your Starter Relay. This fuse provides all the power to your EFI stuff and can suffer badly from high resistance fuse connections and overheated wiring  especially at its inline connector.

 

EF79D2E6-8E27-4F00-87F3-C99F83E6BE32.thumb.jpeg.09d26801311b53185228c34b60382593.jpeg.jpg

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The FI light starts blinking sort of randomly, the bike dies and when you restart you don't see the FI light.

 

Yes main fuse is all good. Previous owner did the wiring harness/stator/RR work for me LOL

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member Contributer
23 hours ago, Mikus11 said:

The FI light starts blinking sort of randomly, the bike dies and when you restart you don't see the FI light.

 

Yes main fuse is all good. Previous owner did the wiring harness/stator/RR work for me LOL

 

Do you ever have a situation where the fuel pump continues to run before starting?

 

Does the Fi light vary in brightness?

 

Since clearing the stored codes do you now have any active flashing codes?

 

And just confirming, battery terminals are clean and tight, you have no cranking issues and have checked the frame Grounds as suggested, and they measure zero ohms back to the battery negative terminal?

 

The other thing to check before diving into the harness ground block is the dreaded 18P Blue connector behind your left fairing. The main EFI power from Main Fuse B comes into this connector on the Red/White wire, then a Black/Pink wire up to your Engine Stop Relay from the relay back out to the Blue connector on the Black/White wire to all the EFI stuff.

So, inspect this connector and the connections for burnt pins or sockets for the above wires.

Also while you're at the Blue connector measure and make sure you have solid battery voltage at the Black/White wire with Ignition to On.

 

IMG_0591.JPG

IMG_1103.PNG

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member Contributer

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that someplace in the wiring / connectors suggested is the problem.  A bad ground wouldn't surprise me in the least. We just had a thread on a 5th gen with similar odd behavior which was thought to be a bad ECU. Once the  ground block and wiring was sorted all was good. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, Mikus11 said:

The FI light starts blinking sort of randomly, the bike dies and when you restart you don't see the FI light.

 

 

Does it blink in time with the indicators or brake light application? - A long shot, but they were symptoms of a bad earth on my 5th gen.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The light blinks kind of randomly. Hard to estimate brightness as its flicking on and off.

 

The codes did not re-appear after clearing but I've only had the chance to run the bike for 10 min in the garage. If I can get the bike to act up again I will re-check the codes. Hopefully will have some time over the weekend to go thru the grounds and connectors.

 

I own an old british sports car and even the Lucas "Prince of Darkness" electrics seem to hold no candle to a VFR!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member Contributer

Is FI light steady with key ON at first, before starting?

Then grab harness at various points and wiggle to see if it makes light flicker. Definitely appears to be some wiring issue.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

FI light comes on when you turn on key and then goes off in a few seconds. I believe this is the normal behavior for a bike without any codes stored.

 

So I got a quick break from a busy day and took the bike out for a 20min shakedown ride. Of course at one of the busiest intersections in the city, the FI light starts flashing and the bike stalls as soon as I touch the throttle and just before a green light. Key cycled on/off, bike starts and I'm on my way again.

 

Got home, plugged in the diagnostic wire and there are no codes stored. No time to look at anything more have to get back to the day job but will have a look at the grounding/earthing and have a look thru the wiring later.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member Contributer

Just a gut feeling that you may be seeing a Power issue to the ECM rather than a Ground issue.

 

Generally ground issues can cause multiple active fault codes, you appear to not have this situation. The Fi light comming On (appart from indicating a fault code detected) Can also mean loss of Power to the ECM.

 

Apart from checking the main frame grounds. Check the power to the ECM as mentioned above, Blue connector etc.

The Engine Stop Relay, AND its wiring is critical, any doubts about this relay it can be swapped with your hi beam relay for fault finding.

 

More food for thought!

Keep us posted. Good luck.

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

PXL_20210619_170921062.thumb.jpg.63202fda754c32384ea5c3ddcc3d17e2.jpg

 

Update: As you can see the blue connector definitely has some issues on the side with the black/white stripe wire. Damn these are quite small but hopefully hitting it with some Deoxit contact cleaner and a selection of toothbrush, q-tip and a piece of copper wire is enough to get it all cleaned out. If there is a better way to clean this side of the contacts I am all ears.

 

For tracing the battery power on black/white stripe wire, the probes on my multi meter aren't nearly small enough. Also are you back probing it with the connector plugged together, or just measuring with it unplugged on the connector above? Might be able to carefully stick a short wire in and measure off that.

 

Orange ground block was spotless. Cleaned it anyway.

 

Working through to the grounds under the tank so no verdict yet. It may take some time to confidently know its fixed with the problem being so intermittent. But at least seeing a potential problem spot is encouraging.

 

Also, I cannot for the life of me find the relays for the headlights and engine stop. Does the front cowl have to come off to access these? Service manual picture makes it look like they should be accessible without doing that.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member Contributer

While they're apart and once clean  I'd treat them with some Oxgard paste as preventive maintenance.  Re headlight relays, yes,  you'll need to remove cowl. There's a good video on Y-T on how to remove it. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member Contributer

I've seen worse Blue connectors, but yes it sure could do with a clean up. Hard to see with your photo, are any of the pins or sockets burnt?

 

Your bike is a 2008 6gen! What Orange ground block are you referring to?

 

If you're going to inspect the Engine Stop Relay you can measure the incoming and outgoing power at the relay. However its best to know that good voltage for EFI is getting beyond the Blue connector on the Black/White wire.

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks all.

 

The orange coloured block of green (earth) wires in the same covering as the blue and white connectors shown.

 

None of the pins or sockets were burnt.

 

Yes I put a tiny amount of ox-gard on the pins. Unlike dielectric grease this stuff is conductive so you want to be careful not to short out anything.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member Contributer
49 minutes ago, Mikus11 said:

Thanks all.

 

The orange coloured block of green (earth) wires in the same covering as the blue and white connectors shown.

 

None of the pins or sockets were burnt.

 

Yes I put a tiny amount of ox-gard on the pins. Unlike dielectric grease this stuff is conductive so you want to be careful not to short out anything.

Here is the Orange Ground block for a 5th gen located in the harness above tha chain guard.

A 6gen has a light gray ground block located behind the main frame weld behind your coolant reservoir tank. So a bit more clarification on the ground block you are talking about!

 

Good job with the Ox-gard.

Your concerns with Ox-gard being conductive is not warranted at all in a 12v system, its just not that conductive. You can afford to be as liberal as you like with the stuff. Tested Ox-gard with my meter probes in a puddle of the stuff and even with my probes almost touching my meter read infinity on the 200 meg ohm scale! So it's most likley only a concern in high voltage applications.

 

IMG_0638.JPG

IMG_0969.JPG

IMG_0970.JPG

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member Contributer
1 hour ago, Grum said:

Here is the Orange Ground block for a 5th gen located in the harness above tha chain guard.

A 6gen has a light gray ground block located behind the main frame weld behind your coolant reservoir tank. So a bit more clarification on the ground block you are talking about!

 

Good job with the Ox-gard.

Your concerns with Ox-gard being conductive is not warranted at all in a 12v system, its just not that conductive. You can afford to be as liberal as you like with the stuff. Tested Ox-gard with my meter probes in a puddle of the stuff and even with my probes almost touching my meter read infinity on the 200 meg ohm scale! So it's most likley only a concern in high voltage applications.

 

 

 

IMG_0970.JPG

 

Grum,

 

A point of clarification - not all 6th gens have that grounding block behind the coolant reservoir.   I don't know what might be the reason - possibly the updated harness from 2006 on, or possibly the ABS variant, which is what I have and I believe the OP does as well.  At any rate, on my 2008 there is a series of 8 to 10 harness grounds connected to the frame by an M5 hex bolt that threads in horizontally.  It can be found in the general vicinity circled by lifting the tank .  The main battery ground is on the horizontal part of the frame below the tank hinge which the upper shock mount is attached to.  But for whatever reason, my 6th does not have that gray ground block. 

 

In the other pic note the harness grounds with the capped off connector similar to the photo from the gen 5, above. 

 

Ground.JPG

Front ground.JPG

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member Contributer
2 hours ago, Cogswell said:

 

Grum,

 

A point of clarification - not all 6th gens have that grounding block behind the coolant reservoir.   I don't know what might be the reason - possibly the updated harness from 2006 on, or possibly the ABS variant, which is what I have and I believe the OP does as well.  At any rate, on my 2008 there is a series of 8 to 10 harness grounds connected to the frame by an M5 hex bolt that threads in horizontally.  It can be found in the general vicinity circled by lifting the tank .  The main battery ground is on the horizontal part of the frame below the tank hinge which the upper shock mount is attached to.  But for whatever reason, my 6th does not have that gray ground block. 

 

In the other pic note the harness grounds with the capped off connector similar to the photo from the gen 5, above. 

 

Ground.JPG

Front ground.JPG

Excellent thanks for the heads up Cogs, learn something new every day. Haven't seen this on a 6gen, suspect it may well be for the ABS variant. Unfortunately in Aus, for the 6gen, we never had the ABS verion.

Cheers.:fing02:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes that is exactly the orange grounding block that I opened up to inspect and clean. I did find and clean that M5 hex bolt with the grounds under the tank (looked fine) and will get to the battery ground under the hinge as well after the F1 race.

 

And yes this is a 2008 ABS model.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member Contributer

See if you can do a few voltage measurements around the Engine Stop Relay. You should have battery voltage on the Black/Pink wire all the time.

Then battery voltage on the Black/White wire with Ignition to On. Operate your kill switch numerous times making sure the 12v on the Black/white wire returns every time the kill switch is in the RUN position. Any doubts with the Relay swap it with the Hi Beam Relay.

Then...... Go riding see, if you still have issues.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Member Contributer

Re the earth block, mine was spotless so I discounted it. When I revisited it to replace it in desperation I cut up the plastic block & most of the earth wires were badly corroded in their metal crimp connectors. I cut them all off splayed the wire strand end & mechanically cleaned them then soldered all together in a block & heat shrink covered them & taped back in to harness. No random errors afterwards 👍😁

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy.