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BiKenG

800 engine in 750

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I guess mainly aimed at 5th Gen 800 into 4th Gen 750 frame. How easy/possible is this?

 

I realise the S/A pivot on the back of the 800 engine would need to be cut off, but otherwise how would it match up?

 

I rather suspect most or all of the engine mounts would be in the wrong place, but has anyone looked into this in any detail?

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I don't know, but I do have a spare RC36 frame and swing arm if you want to try it!

 

20160619_162629x.thumb.jpg.3d0d64a5ec98b18de312afb10a708bb5.jpg

 

Ciao, 

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BiKenG, that sounds like a big project.

 

Can't find any measurements of the engine dimensions for 3rd or 5th gen motors. Perhaps some of the guys who have spare dunks could take a tape measure and let you know.

 

Don't forget to check if there's room for the 800's airbox. 

 

John, I like the decal on that rear wheel hub. Could you elaborate on it? I'd like to find something similar for my '09's white wheel.

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11 hours ago, Lorne said:

BiKenG, that sounds like a big project.

 

Can't find any measurements of the engine dimensions for 3rd or 5th gen motors. Perhaps some of the guys who have spare dunks could take a tape measure and let you know.

 

Don't forget to check if there's room for the 800's airbox. 

 

John, I like the decal on that rear wheel hub. Could you elaborate on it? I'd like to find something similar for my '09's white wheel.

 

I guess either a Gen 3 or a Gen 4 would do, whichever is the easier although my preference would be the Gen 4. Are those engines the same mountings? I.e. can Gen 3 and 4 engines be swapped?

 

John's rear wheel is more than just a decal. Lucky bu**er has an NR750 wheel. :mad:

 

I want to base a bike on the 800 engine (closest to RC45 and is injected which has its advantages), but the Gen 4 frame is better looking. I'm not a fan of the pivotless (i.e. S/A pivots on engine) frame design of Hondas of that era. Not so aesthetically pleasing and no obvious advantage in use.

 

I've heard various comments on Honda's reason for using this frame design, but it was best suggested to me by Steve Harris (of Harris Engineering) that it was purely for ease of production. The swing-arm can be attached to the bare engine, wheel installed etc and then the frame and other stuff attached just dropped on from above with less faff than with a traditional style of frame and quicker on the production line means cost savings. All that guff about better handling due to suspension forces being transmitted direct to the head stock etc was just marketing bollox, as evidenced by the fact that later and better handling bikes used the traditional frame design incorporating the swing-arm pivot again. I think Steve hit the nail right on the head on that one.

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2 minutes ago, Dutchy said:

P8060879.thumb.JPG.9bbcbc517ea526b12ca1c922fb29024a.JPG

 

 

 

 

Now imagine if you could make that into 1000 or even better 1200cc. Ooohh...

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3 hours ago, BiKenG said:

 

I guess either a Gen 3 or a Gen 4 would do, whichever is the easier although my preference would be the Gen 4. Are those engines the same mountings? I.e. can Gen 3 and 4 engines be swapped?

 

John's rear wheel is more than just a decal. Lucky bu**er has an NR750 wheel. :mad:

 

I want to base a bike on the 800 engine (closest to RC45 and is injected which has its advantages), but the Gen 4 frame is better looking. I'm not a fan of the pivotless (i.e. S/A pivots on engine) frame design of Hondas of that era. Not so aesthetically pleasing and no obvious advantage in use.

 

I've heard various comments on Honda's reason for using this frame design, but it was best suggested to me by Steve Harris (of Harris Engineering) that it was purely for ease of production. The swing-arm can be attached to the bare engine, wheel installed etc and then the frame and other stuff attached just dropped on from above with less faff than with a traditional style of frame and quicker on the production line means cost savings. All that guff about better handling due to suspension forces being transmitted direct to the head stock etc was just marketing bollox, as evidenced by the fact that later and better handling bikes used the traditional frame design incorporating the swing-arm pivot again. I think Steve hit the nail right on the head on that one.

 

Absolutely use a 4th gen frame--the 3rd gen has those weird bat wings at the back that are almost impossible to integrate with anything other than the OEM rear cowlings.  The 4th gen frame also looks very similar to the NR's frame

 

I think it is fairly well settled that the 3rd and 4th gen engines are interchangeable.  I used to think the cases were different, due to the centre stand mounts being different, but it was pointed out to me that the centre stands actually mount to the frame.

 

Sounds like a cool project.  I can measure the engine mounting points on my frame (or you can simply borrow it), or spare engine.  All you need is to find a 5th gen engine to play with!

 

Ciao,

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15 hours ago, Lorne said:

John, I like the decal on that rear wheel hub. Could you elaborate on it? I'd like to find something similar for my '09's white wheel.

 

As Ken noted, that's my gen-u-ine NR rear wheel (courtesy of Yahoo! Japan Auctions many years ago).  The decal is/was available as a separate part number from, CMSNL, but it needs a flat surface to stick onto.  The replica NR in Dutchy's pic uses a 4th gen rear wheel (very close in appearance to the NR wheel) and some sort of lug nut cover, so maybe it would also work on a 3rd gen wheel?  (I actually have a spare of this decal, as my original one is slightly damaged, which I could scan for you, if you like.)

 

Ciao,

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1 hour ago, JZH said:

 

... The replica NR in Dutchy's pic ...

 

Ciao,

 

Wow, I never even noticed that was not a real NR. Now I look closely I can see some differences, but what a great job. Based on a Gen 4 I guess. Is it Dutchy's bike? Where did those plastics come from? I want to make one like that :biggrin:

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1 hour ago, JZH said:

Sounds like a cool project.  I can measure the engine mounting points on my frame (or you can simply borrow it), or spare engine.  All you need is to find a 5th gen engine to play with!

 

Ciao,

 

We need to involve Mohawk. Hey Chris, care to measure up your spare 800 motor?

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3 hours ago, BiKenG said:

 

Wow, I never even noticed that was not a real NR. Now I look closely I can see some differences, but what a great job. Based on a Gen 4 I guess. Is it Dutchy's bike? Where did those plastics come from? I want to make one like that :biggrin:

 

 

That bike was build by our member AndreasH from Sweden.  

Helweg from Denmark also build his NR; maybe he has finished the air scoops by now..

In choosing where to tour following my redundancy, the 2 NR's were key (as was Keny) in deciding on "the Ace of Spades Balic tour 2016"...   :goofy:

 

 

 

 

P8010703.thumb.JPG.2e1b11e73284ef47636ec90eff81b668.JPG

 

 

P8010707.thumb.JPG.2bf23667ddc9f4cece37cdfb823ed124.JPG

 

 

 

Having a real one 3km from my house, I took some close-ups and measurement to help these guys...

HPIM6998.jpg.782ed7e093cffe92f761d800abbb8f86.jpg

 

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6 hours ago, JZH said:

 

As Ken noted, that's my gen-u-ine NR rear wheel (courtesy of Yahoo! Japan Auctions many years ago).  The decal is/was available as a separate part number from, CMSNL, but it needs a flat surface to stick onto.  The replica NR in Dutchy's pic uses a 4th gen rear wheel (very close in appearance to the NR wheel) and some sort of lug nut cover, so maybe it would also work on a 3rd gen wheel?  (I actually have a spare of this decal, as my original one is slightly damaged, which I could scan for you, if you like.)

 

Ciao,

Thanks, John, a scan would be great. There isn't a lot of flat space on either the 3rd or 5th gen wheel hubs, but I might be able to rejigger it to fit between the lug bolts. If not, the scan will be a nice addition to my files. Thanks,

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13 hours ago, Dutchy said:

 

 

That bike was build by our member AndreasH from Sweden.  

Helweg from Denmark also build his NR; maybe he has finished the air scoops by now..

 

I guess the mirrors are just BlackBird items, but what about headlights? What did they use for those? Exhaust?

 

Do you know if either of them would consider making another set of plastics? Or do they sell kits already?

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I recall they sourced the panels from France. The kit designed to fit a Fireblade, so modifications were needed, filling the headlight holes. Handcrafting the exhausts, rasters etc......

 

@AndreasH

@Helweg

 

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9 hours ago, BiKenG said:

 

I guess the mirrors are just BlackBird items, but what about headlights? What did they use for those? Exhaust?

 

Do you know if either of them would consider making another set of plastics? Or do they sell kits already?

 

I think the french company is Poly26.  See this thread: 

 

Btw, it would be more accurate to say that the Blackbird used NR mirrors!

 

Ciao,

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2 hours ago, JZH said:

Btw, it would be more accurate to say that the Blackbird used NR mirrors!

 

Ciao,

 

Yes of course, the NR came first. My bad. :sleep:

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On 4-11-2017 at 10:36 AM, Dutchy said:

P8060879.thumb.JPG.9bbcbc517ea526b12ca1c922fb29024a.JPG

 

 

 

 

 

Swedish quality!!!

 

 

:beer:to the health of all at VFRD!!

 

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