Member Contributer Dutchy Posted September 10, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted September 10, 2014 That got your attention eh? But no smut here, we run a decent forum here do we now.... Well, the annoying rattle/ticking that I attributed to my clutch proved to be something else..... I'd say to you all, whip out that torque wrench the next time you are fiddling with our engine.... Over on the Dutch VFR forum a member is suspecting that his 4th gen runs too hot/waterpump not working, so I took my side panels off to verify a few things/take pictures. Fired up and the rattle was clearly more to the front and upon hearing it more clearly, I recalled hearing that sound on Douglasthecook's 4th gen...... a loose sparkplug... So I took the cap off and -here you go- had to finger deep to feel the plug wiggling.... and it was loose... Engine did run ok/exhaust gets hot right away so I was not running on 3 cylinders I always use a torque wrench (12Nm) so how/why it came loose? so you are hereby warned that torquing to spec is no guarantee... I never use any anti-seize compound as per NGK's instructions either. The plug I took out had a bit if metal into the groove so put in a new one just to be sure. It went in much easier for sure. Peep show over!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted September 10, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted September 10, 2014 Not good always use anti-seize. Aluminum heads (with steel plugs) - galvanic corrosion can become an issue and you don't want to screw up the threads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Dutchy Posted September 10, 2014 Author Member Contributer Share Posted September 10, 2014 You mind if I take the manufacturers word for it? http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/pdf/tb-0630111antisieze.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted September 10, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted September 10, 2014 But NGK says no and you don't have too. But they also say you can . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted September 10, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted September 10, 2014 So did you have the shiny plugs in with no anti-seize and the threads fouled ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
checksix Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 I always rub a small spot of anti-seize on new plugs and then hand tighten until resistance is felt from the metal compression gasket / washer. Then apply about 1/4 turn with the wrench to compress the washer, but not bottom it out. No torque wrench required (on some bikes it's virtually impossible to get one in there anyway). Haven't lost any plugs yet :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beck Posted September 10, 2014 Share Posted September 10, 2014 Determining whether I have my lugs on tight enough, had always been a sort of OCD point with my motorcycles.... I try to use the rule of seating the plug with my fingers as tight as I could than giving it at least a half turn to crush the sealing washer adequately..... It really get tricky after that when I remove and re-install the plug for afor some reason, as I assume the washer is already crushed/flattened, and going at least a half turn after finger tightening might end up with me stripping the head plug threads..... It does not help too that the plugs are not that easy to get at, so you cannot get a consitent feel from plug to plug on how thight the plug is..... It really sucks too when it's time to replace or inspect the plugs and you thought you tightened them all evenly and then finding out when you are removing them and to find out that one or a couple of them are just barely more than finger tight....for some reason... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spud786 Posted September 11, 2014 Share Posted September 11, 2014 With the loose plug , compression was doing a lot of damage to those threads.. That's why Ive mentioned before, when you install a new plug after torqing break it loose and retorque or else risk it coming loose as new compression washer doesn't generally full compress the first time, and as a result will continue to compress as miles are put on it until no more torque on the plug and it starts wiggling loose. When I mentioned this, there were people who said they've never seen it happen, but here is the reality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Polarbear Posted September 11, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted September 11, 2014 Interesting technique Spud. I will try that--thanks for the tip. As for the title, I expected nothing less... :-) C Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Ultimatevfr Posted September 11, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted September 11, 2014 My brother( Porsche/Rolls tech) mentioned that Porsche recommends the same technique for a few applications on their cars.good call Spud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Dutchy Posted September 11, 2014 Author Member Contributer Share Posted September 11, 2014 The inside thread must be deteriorated, since there was no way I could turn in the plug (with the large socket on top (yes she has a deep hole..). and she is 17 years old...... I could turn by hand the first 2-3 rotations but then needed the (torrque) wrench to help it along (set to the Nm specified by NGK). So I now ride her for a short while, loosen the plug and re-torque? Or loosen and re-torque now the engine is still cold/not run for a while? Maybe coincidence, but on Doug's 4th gen, it was also the front left plug that loosened... I noticed that with the engine fired up, the front left exhaust would heat up really fast whereas the one to the right would stay warm but not hot immediately. This leads me to think that the coolant flows past the front left cylinder last? (so it 1st cools the front right, then the rear bank and front left last) The front left heats up more quickly and thus suffers from expansion quicker, loosing the plug more easily than the others? (note that I'm not a mechanic by trade, just trying to rationalize....) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spud786 Posted September 11, 2014 Share Posted September 11, 2014 You don't have to run the motor, just torque the plug, break it loose again and retorque (that's all the NEW compression washer needs to be stable) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Dutchy Posted September 11, 2014 Author Member Contributer Share Posted September 11, 2014 roger that!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bayarearider Posted September 11, 2014 Share Posted September 11, 2014 In a somewhat related story..."Check Your Nuts" Long story short, was riding out the rest of this season feeling a chatter at the front end from spent Steering Stem bearings. All Balls tapered set at the ready for winter service (if it ever rains here.) I was measuring the Inside Dia. of the Steering Stem to install a rubber compression Ram mount ball and discovered that the 30mm chrome nut spun loosely in my hand. Who would have thought? Loosened up the top yoke clamp bolts, tapped the yoke down if it needed it and re-torqued the center nut to the 103Nm. spec. Re-set the clamp bolts, Chatter gone! :wheel: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted September 11, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted September 11, 2014 I have read a couple of times of this happening . I guess the procedure for this type of bearing is to over torque and then move the triple tree around so as to seat the new bearing and then loosen the steering nut and re-set the 103.nm.'s ? Planning on completing task this winter . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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