Member Contributer NorthernVFRDave Posted May 5, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted May 5, 2014 According to the Wall Street Journal, the American Petroleum Institute states that approximately 1/3 of a gallon of fuel remains in the pump, not 2 gallons. Pretty big difference... I saw that... "According to the American Petroleum Institute the gas-pump hose typically retains about one third of a gallon of fuel." Gas pump hose is 3/4 inch.. 0.037 gallons per foot on a 3/4 line, hoses are between 9-12 feet.. The math agrees, about 1/3 of a gallon in the hose. However they totally left out the fact that 9-12 foot hose (depending on the pump) can be mounted sometimes on a pump 7-8 feet in the air. Now add the network of piping inside the pump, for metering, and valving, and don't forget there is a single and sometimes dual stage fuel filter system in there as well. Doesn't take long to see, there is a lot more of whatever the guy before you bought goes in to your tank, before you get what you want in yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ember1205 Posted May 5, 2014 Share Posted May 5, 2014 According to the Wall Street Journal, the American Petroleum Institute states that approximately 1/3 of a gallon of fuel remains in the pump, not 2 gallons. Pretty big difference... I saw that... "According to the American Petroleum Institute the gas-pump hose typically retains about one third of a gallon of fuel." Gas pump hose is 3/4 inch.. 0.037 gallons per foot on a 3/4 line, hoses are between 9-12 feet.. The math agrees, about 1/3 of a gallon in the hose. However they totally left out the fact that 9-12 foot hose (depending on the pump) can be mounted sometimes on a pump 7-8 feet in the air. Now add the network of piping inside the pump, for metering, and valving, and don't forget there is a single and sometimes dual stage fuel filter system in there as well. Doesn't take long to see, there is a lot more of whatever the guy before you bought goes in to your tank, before you get what you want in yours. But, the plumbing "inside" the pump should only have the grade of fuel that is to be pumped, right before it is moved into the hose... No? So, the only residual would still be what's in the hose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer NorthernVFRDave Posted May 5, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted May 5, 2014 But, the plumbing "inside" the pump should only have the grade of fuel that is to be pumped, right before it is moved into the hose... No? So, the only residual would still be what's in the hose. One would think, but not from what my gas pump QC buddy tells me.. Those big tall single hose, mutli mix pumps, have 2 pump motors at the bottom where the two supply lines come in one for 87 and 91, where it meets a set of mix valves. Than its all common pluming from there, for filtration, metering, and anything else going on in side the pump. Makes the pump cheaper to build and easier maintain. But there is an easy fix... Just make sure your are second in line to get fuel behind someone else, that way, the cheap stuff has been push out by then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Rush2112 Posted May 6, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted May 6, 2014 Ethanol dilutes your fuel, makes you run lean, and impacts your mileage. If you can run pure gasoline, even if it's in the higher octane, do it. Your motor will run better. The VTEC motors don't like the ethanol AT ALL - local Acura dealers were informing customers to never ever fill up with anything but premium because the lower octane PLUS ethanol was wreaking havoc on motors. I don't suspect it's as bad in the bikes because the motors aren't tuned the same as the VTEC motors were tuned for Acuras. Still.. I never run ANYTHING but premium in my sleds, even the '98 Indy 440, because the ethanol is murder on two-stroke motors. Acura motors require premium because of the igntion timing and compression ratios... it has nothing to do with ethanol. Pure ethanol has an octane rating above 100 and adding it to gas raises the octane rating. Most premium gas in the US has ethanol. Find a station that sells 100% gas and you will get 5 - 10% better gas mileage because of the higher energy content in pure gas vs 90% gas/10% ethanolSent from my SCH-I200 using Tapatalk Octane, in simple terms, is how resistant to premature detonation the fuel is. Since ethanol lacks the energy potential of gasoline, its octane value is much higher than that of gasoline. And, the reason that Acura motors spec premium fuel is EXACTLY because of the octane rating. When your ignition timing is advanced like it is in those motors, and the compression is higher, you need the high octane to resist pre-ignition. If you can get pure gasoline at 87 octane, you can run it in Acura motors without any real risk of damage as long as you don't do it all the time. The computer will adjust the timing to compensate pretty well. The problem is, though, that the lower octane fuels now ALL have ethanol in them. And, since that makes your motor run lean, you WILL do damage by running it in these motors because the computer can't compensate for the timing AND the fuel ratio properly to prevent motor damage from running so lean. I'm glad we agree on the reason Acura motors require premium... it's the octane rating not the ethanol. ALL lower octane fuels do not have ethanol. I regularly buy 100% gas at 87 octane rating for the VFR and I have done so for years in two different states. Granted, you have to look for it.... it is usually sold at stations that are near water sports areas or farming. Farm equipment and boat motors do not like ethanol at all... BTW... excellent choice in VFR generation and color Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ember1205 Posted May 6, 2014 Share Posted May 6, 2014 Yes... Not "all" lower octane fuels have Ethanol. But, they do in the Northeast (save about three gas stations). I thought locally and wrote globally. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer NorthernVFRDave Posted May 6, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted May 6, 2014 Yes... Not "all" lower octane fuels have Ethanol. But, they do in the Northeast (save about three gas stations). I thought locally and wrote globally. :) They do here in Ontario :( Been law since 2011... And common practice since 07, that all regular grade fuel to be E10... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adamv Posted May 7, 2014 Share Posted May 7, 2014 Apparently their is a easy way to test. Fill up a bottle, test tube or whatever approximately half way with water. Draw a line at the water level. Then put fuel in. The fuel should sit on top and their should be a visible difference between the two fluids. After that shake the bottle and then let it sit. The fuel and water should separate at the same line before, but if the fuel contains ethanol then the water will mix with the ethanol and the waterline will be different. It's important to make sure when doing this test the water goes in first as it is the heavier liquid. Sent from my HTC One S using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 27, 2014 Share Posted August 27, 2014 Has anyone run their tank completely "empty" -- i.e., until the bike stopped running? I would be curious how much then actually fits into the tank. Sometimes usable fuel volume is less than the "total" volume (like in small training aircraft, e.g.) The fuel moves around in the tank; if it sloshes to one side, the fuel intake can become un-ported even though there is still fuel inside the tank. Hypothetically, if one were doing slow, tight turns near the end of the tank, the fuel might shift and pool far enough to the inside of the turn to un-port the intake even though there's some in there. I have gone pretty far into the last flashing bar, yet I have never, ever, put in more than 4.5G; normally I get nervous and stop only to find I can't get more than 4G in there. In my 2006 6th Gen, the tank is 5.81G, so that means that at a conservative 32 MPG, there is still b/w 40 and 60 miles in there. Obviously the tank design varies from bike to bike, and from the schematics it looks like the VFR intake really is at the very lowest point in the tank, but I'm curious if anyone has firsthand data. I'm often less than 40 miles from home but stop to fill up to allay my nervousness; I'd like to know when I don't really have to worry -- especially if I'm in a rush to get back and can hold off until my next ride. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer zupatun Posted August 27, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted August 27, 2014 This morning 206 miles and 4.8 gallons on 87 regular pump gas 10% ethanol...so ~43MPG in DC traffic...Next month in NH, VT and ME I will get around 36 to 38mpg...you get less mileage the more your bike is leaned over...the radius of the tire is smaller, so you travel less distance thought the wheels go around more...right...??? That's my story I'm sticking to it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Switchblade Posted August 27, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted August 27, 2014 This morning 206 miles and 4.8 gallons on 87 regular pump gas 10% ethanol...so ~43MPG in DC traffic...Next month in NH, VT and ME I will get around 36 to 38mpg...you get less mileage the more your bike is leaned over...the radius of the tire is smaller, so you travel less distance thought the wheels go around more...right...??? That's my story I'm sticking to it... +1 Same thing for me and I have never heard of ethanol increasing the octane Since ethanol is less explosive and more resistant to detonation than iso-octane, it has an octane rating greater than 100. Mixing it will gasoline with a lower octane rating will boost the rating. So says Wikipedia !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer MaxSwell Posted August 28, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted August 28, 2014 Has anyone run their tank completely "empty" -- i.e., until the bike stopped running? I would be curious how much then actually fits into the tank. Sometimes usable fuel volume is less than the "total" volume (like in small training aircraft, e.g.) The fuel moves around in the tank; if it sloshes to one side, the fuel intake can become un-ported even though there is still fuel inside the tank. Hypothetically, if one were doing slow, tight turns near the end of the tank, the fuel might shift and pool far enough to the inside of the turn to un-port the intake even though there's some in there. I have gone pretty far into the last flashing bar, yet I have never, ever, put in more than 4.5G; normally I get nervous and stop only to find I can't get more than 4G in there. In my 2006 6th Gen, the tank is 5.81G, so that means that at a conservative 32 MPG, there is still b/w 40 and 60 miles in there. Obviously the tank design varies from bike to bike, and from the schematics it looks like the VFR intake really is at the very lowest point in the tank, but I'm curious if anyone has firsthand data. I'm often less than 40 miles from home but stop to fill up to allay my nervousness; I'd like to know when I don't really have to worry -- especially if I'm in a rush to get back and can hold off until my next ride. I've run her dry on several occasions. One time a farmer filled my tank from his very large fuel tank with a meter on the hose. We looked in the tank and it was bone dry. The fifth gen, with a manual-specified with a 5.55 gal. tank, took exactly 5.55 gal (US). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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