Member Contributer B4V4 Posted August 22, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted August 22, 2013 1999 project bike. Laid down 8 years ago and sat in the outdoor parking lot ever since (PO). Did a quick oil squirt in each cylinder, rotated by hand. Transferred my tank from the 2000 and with a little coaxing fired up - but only with the right 2 cylinders. Left 2 have spark, have fuel, took out the air filter to make sure nothing up there. Any thoughts ... ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer zoomzoom Posted August 23, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted August 23, 2013 This might be a bit of a stretch, but if it sat for 8 years in an outdoor parking lot, maybe a small rodent crawled into the exhaust and made a home somewhere in the exhaust header. I have a friend who owned and 87 Ninja 1000 and one year after taking the bike out of winter storage in his shed he had a heck of a time getting started. The bike had dual exhaust and when he fired the bike up it would barely idle and as soon as he blipped the throttle the bike would die. He also noted that there was only exhaust coming out of the right side muffler. I happened to walk up the driveway when he tried to get the bike going and it was idling but very poorly, and suddenly he gave it some throttle when the idle smoothed out a bit and there was a loud pop as he shot a mouse nest and dead mouse out the left muffler. Darned mouse just about corked me in the head as it shot 30 feet across the yard and on to the front lawn. After that the bike idled perfectly. Apparently the mouse had gotten fairly far down the pipe and in to the header because Doug (my friend) removed the exhaust and the muffler (aftermarket pipes) and the rodent had obviously made it's way all the way down to the header pipe judging by the amount of stuff in the end of the header pipe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KCSooner Posted August 23, 2013 Share Posted August 23, 2013 Funny thing is I did not get to ride this past weekend and decided to ride to work this morning. We leave our garage door open sometimes....well I mounted and let the bike warm up and out plopped a little field mouse from under the seat. Almost pissed in my pants. Will look at electricals this weekend more closely to make sure nothing was chewed on! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer gll429 Posted August 23, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted August 23, 2013 clean your ground wires and wires to the coils.. do them ONE AT A TIME so you dont get anything mixed up. mouse in the pipe.. i have seen that.. and saw the splat on the wall.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer B4V4 Posted August 23, 2013 Author Member Contributer Share Posted August 23, 2013 Well, did have a mouse nest in the airbox so is possible. Did jiggle around a bit with the coils - my first thought. Of course they connect in pairs so logically a left/right problem does not seem probable - plus getting good spark. Switched plugs just to be sure there - no effect. I'm certainly not used to seeing good spark, clear intake, & wet plugs so a mouse issue, although sounding out there, may provide something to look at. I did pack up the bike last night to move into storage for a couple months - fall project - so will have to wait to pull the exhaust & see. Thanks for the input! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer B4V4 Posted August 18, 2014 Author Member Contributer Share Posted August 18, 2014 Decided to resurrect this old thread. Working my way through the project so figured it's time to start documenting. The bike as picked up: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer gswanson Posted August 18, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted August 18, 2014 That makes me cringe! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baileyrock Posted August 19, 2014 Share Posted August 19, 2014 WOW!!! Once you get all that nasty crap out of the system I would look at the injectors! These things have a strong tendency to freeze/lock up if they sit long. I bought several 5th gens that had dead cyl's from none firing injectors and the fix was pretty simple. I actually took a wood dowel and placed it on the corner of the metal injector body and rapped it with a hammer a few times and it freed up the stuck injector every time. Some may have taken several service applications. Anyway put in some good injector cleaner, do the Rap method and fire it up again. Pretty easy to hear when they start to fire, but I use a digital temp gun on the exhaust tubes to also check. Good luck. BR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer MBrane Posted August 19, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted August 19, 2014 Decided to resurrect this old thread. Working my way through the project so figured it's time to start documenting. The bike as picked up: KijijiAdd2.JPG That looks like something fell on it. Rust never sleeps, but it does move slowly if undisturbed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer B4V4 Posted August 19, 2014 Author Member Contributer Share Posted August 19, 2014 Thanks for the interest guys! Wasn't quite up to date yet. I pulled the fuel rail last week and sent the injectors off to get an ultra-sonic cleaning & tested. Although they all "blasting", some pretty nasty stuff was reported to have come out of them with only 1 having a nice fan-spray. All came back perfect. So ... The fuel rail & throttle-bodies are back in and although it's still igniting on 2 cylinders, it's now only the front 2. Not sure whether my temporary hook up has something to do with it (maybe the rear-2 coils share a common ground and must be linked?). Will be testing for spark and fuel tomorrow evening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer B4V4 Posted August 20, 2014 Author Member Contributer Share Posted August 20, 2014 Pulled the rear plugs. Definitely wet, definitely sparking so all good on the coils & spark unit. Bike is now igniting on all 4 cylinders - pipes warming up. Cannot get it to stay running more than 2 or 3 seconds. Any throttle what-so-ever and it won't ignite at all. A couple of questions. Are the injectors involved in the pre-start prime? With the air breather disconnected, should I be cross-circuiting any of the electrical or pinching off any of the hoses? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer B4V4 Posted August 20, 2014 Author Member Contributer Share Posted August 20, 2014 IT'S ALIVE !!! A little carb cleaner, a little persistance and voila, running like a hungry dog to a T-Bone. That is for until the computer drops the idle (about 2 minutes). Still cannot touch the throttle but I can play a little with the 99's fast idle thingy. Could be of course that I haven't buttoned everything down. A little further this evening - woohoo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Terry Posted August 20, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted August 20, 2014 You haven't mentioned whether there are any FI warning light issues but I'd check there, as the FI system knows what it is expecting from sensors, and will report if there are issues. You might need to clear the fault register first, as it stores all faults until cleared, and if you have turned on the ignition with the system part disassembled during the rebuild you'll have all sorts of apparent faults (speaking from personal experience here!). There's a "service check connector" on the wiring loom at the back left which you jump with a wire, pages 5-6 onwards in the service manual, that allows you to clear the memory or display the fault codes. You say "the computer drops the idle" but as far as I know you'll either have a manual fast idle lever on the left handlebar (early 5th gens), or a wax unit (below the throttle bodies on the later 5th gens) which expands as the temps rise and drops the idle back, both methods open the starter valves to lift the idle speed. I don't believe the ECU does any of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer B4V4 Posted August 20, 2014 Author Member Contributer Share Posted August 20, 2014 Presently the FI light stays on solid. My mistake on the fast idle. I figured the ecu read whatever sensor it needed and in-turn made the adjustments. I have the '99 which has the lever. Probably now at a loss as to why after a couple of minutes the idle drops drastically - more reading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Terry Posted August 20, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted August 20, 2014 If the FI light is on while running, you have a fault that the ECU is trying to tell you about. Use the service check connector and read the flashing code to identify where the fault lies. Maybe also part of the problem is fuel flow where the pump can't keep up and just runs low on pressure. I know from your pics that there was all manner of evil crud in your tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer B4V4 Posted August 20, 2014 Author Member Contributer Share Posted August 20, 2014 Tank is off and thrown out. I've soaked and run through a myriad of chemicals through the fuel pump. Ditched the filter and hooked up new lines for a side-feed so am getting nice clean petro through the system. Good info on the low-pressure. Maybe still just too restricted. Am though getting quite a backflow from the return tube upon priming. I do have a new-for-me pump assembly waiting for me south of the border so this system is only for troubleshooting which now I have to troubleshoot :). Thanks for the FI info. The manual isn't too clear as to whether the codes show up even before bridging the connector. I was though over-looking the side-stand having to be down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer B4V4 Posted August 20, 2014 Author Member Contributer Share Posted August 20, 2014 Checked out the codes. Don't know if it makes a difference in years, but once I dropped the kickstand, and turned the key, the FI light was immediately giving me codes 8 & 9. Turned off and bridged the connector, turned the key and again codes 8 & 9. Looks like I'm troubleshooting both the TP & IAT sensors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Terry Posted August 21, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted August 21, 2014 Good on you for persevering with this restoration. I'd try cleaning up the connectors for the TP and IAT first, maybe there's corrosion in there causing an issue. The IAT is a solid state device (no moving bits) so any problem ought to be electrical continuity only. Time for the contact cleaner! However the bike will run OK in default "limp home" mode even without the IAT working, so doubt that would cause the cut out. The TPS has a potentiometer in it so again could have some corrosion or similar. For the fuel and given your temporary lash-up you could look at adding a pressure gauge to the system between the pump and rail, that would allow you to check that pump is keeping up with the flow demand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer B4V4 Posted August 21, 2014 Author Member Contributer Share Posted August 21, 2014 Good call on the pressure gauge. Have one lying around actually. Now for the dump-ass "Brian I cannot believe you did this" front. I was looking at the TP sensor and thinking how odd that a Throttle Positioning Sensor would be run off the rear coil harness when the injector harness is right there ... uh, ya I did. I just pulled the throttle bodies yet again (damn I'm getting good at that) and hooked up the correct connector - voila, no code #8. Lesson #1 ... Doh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Terry Posted August 21, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted August 21, 2014 Been there, done that. I had the FI light come on after I had the air box off, and the bike started badly. Fault code told me the MAP sensor was the problem. Turned out I had failed to reconnect the vacuum hose (but I did connect the other 200 hoses). At least you're getting to know the bike well. I bet you'll be able to give it a rev on the throttle now. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer B4V4 Posted August 21, 2014 Author Member Contributer Share Posted August 21, 2014 Yep, fired up the morning. Running on all 4. Throttle response was all there. Who knew hooking up the wrong connector could have such a negative effect :). Thanks Terry for hanging with me. If you read back through it was rather helpful to confirm what was actually OK which allowed me to ultimately scratch my head. The TP sensor wiring harness: I was looking through the PDF and testing. The harness was the same, the wiring colours were the same, only the position of 2 of them were reversed. I'm thinking the whole time that it's funny Honda would have released a test where the description & diagram was incorrect. Well of course we know how that turned out! Now onto my next 40 items on the list. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer B4V4 Posted August 24, 2014 Author Member Contributer Share Posted August 24, 2014 All buttoned down and running like a top. Big difference once everything is connected. Seems like there's a new item on my list. The bike had an oil leak at the drain plug. I'm thinking no probs, just someone being too cheap to replace the crush washer. Oil drained, filter changed, wait, what's this plastic washer doing here. Took it off, put bolt in and ... yes, you guessed it, I can spin it round and round with my fingers. Looks like papa needs a new oil pan :). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Terry Posted August 24, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted August 24, 2014 2nd hand sump for sale in UK: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Honda-VFR800-FIW-1998-pre-vtec-engine-sump-cover-/390917192165?pt=UK_Motorcycle_Parts_13&hash=item5b047af9e5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer gll429 Posted August 24, 2014 Member Contributer Share Posted August 24, 2014 All buttoned down and running like a top. Big difference once everything is connected. Seems like there's a new item on my list. The bike had an oil leak at the drain plug. I'm thinking no probs, just someone being too cheap to replace the crush washer. Oil drained, filter changed, wait, what's this plastic washer doing here. Took it off, put bolt in and ... yes, you guessed it, I can spin it round and round with my fingers. Looks like papa needs a new oil pan :). no need. just pull the plug and tap it out to the next size up. . no big deal at all!! just put a lot of grease on the pat to trap all the shavings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer B4V4 Posted August 25, 2014 Author Member Contributer Share Posted August 25, 2014 no need. just pull the plug and tap it out to the next size up. . no big deal at all!! just put a lot of grease on the pat to trap all the shavings. Yes, this will be my first line of repair. Will be pulling the pan this week and take a look at drilling & tapping next size up. Not too crazy about drilling and tapping upside down, in limited space, with the added bonus of possible shavings in the oil pan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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