Higgin Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 I just finished rebuilding my Clutch master cylinder (5ht gen) and installing a brand new clutch slave cylinder after finding issues with the old one. So the clutch system was completly emptied of fluid. I rebuilt the master cyl per the manual, with new parts from honda, making sure everything was together as it was supposed to be, and then installed the new slave cyl with a new gasket and speed bleeder. I put brand new fluid in the reservoir, pumped it a few times, and then cracked open the speed bleeder and continued to pump....for what seems like forever! and I'm still not getting anything comming out of the speedbleeder. Now I bled the system with the speedbleeder many times before replacing everything, so I know how to use them, but I'm comming up blank here. I cracked the clutch fluid line connection at the slave cyl after not getting anything forever, and fluid will drip out there and it will come out if I pump the handle....So I assume its getting at least that far. But for some reason its not comming out the bleeder and the reservoir is not getting any lower. There are bubbles comming out of the hole into the master cyl everyonce in a while. If I take the drain hose off the speedbleeder and leav eit cracked open and pump the handle, I dont feel anything comming out of it. No air pressure, no fluid....zip. Anone have any ideas or maybe some advice on bleeding this thing out, or what the issue could be?? I really dont want to disassemble it again if I dont have to, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed I'm just doing somehting stupid. The slave is completely new from honda, and came fully assembled, so I know I didnt screw that up, lol! I dont get it. I was really excited to get it back together and now I'm heartbroken..... :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer vfrcapn Posted April 26, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted April 26, 2013 Do you have an old nipple you can use in place of the speedbleeder until you get fluid coming out and the slave is primed, then swap in the SB? I seem to remember reading this somewhere... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Higgin Posted April 26, 2013 Author Share Posted April 26, 2013 hmm, yeah I do, the one that came on the new slave cyl :) When I pulled the speedbleeder out, there was fluid comming out of the hole......but I'll try it with the normal bleeder right now. I'm about to give up for tonight. ok, so it seemed to bleed out just fine with the normal nipple. Not getting any air bubbles in the fluid. So now I just swap back the speedbleeder? i dont see how that would make any difference, but i'll try it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer AnikMankar Posted April 26, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted April 26, 2013 i tried this - was faster... did used the old bleeder first. used an old syringe ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Higgin Posted April 26, 2013 Author Share Posted April 26, 2013 Well, I finally got to the point where there is fluid comming out of the bleeder when I squeeze the handle......buuuuut, it does not feel like it is engaging the clutch. THe pull on the handle seems much too easy and there is very little resistance. I tried putting it in gear and pulling in the clutch and tried to turn the rear tire by hand(on center stand) and it just felt the same as not having the clutch pulled in. Couldnt get the tire to rotate at all. SO I'm not sure whats wrong. Off to work right now, so I guess I'll deal with it when I get back. BTW - I do have a mityvac......but its at a friends house over and hour away. Sigh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer AnikMankar Posted April 26, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted April 26, 2013 how are you bleeding the clutch .. just for FYI (ignore if already done :) ) if standard bleeders : pump the clutch lever , keeping the lever squeezed ,open the valve, let the fluid out, close the valve : keep doing this till you have fresh fluid with no bubbles. if Speedbleeders : open the valve, keep pumping the lever till you get no bubbles , close valve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Phantom Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 This topic may be of assistance. http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php/topic/74479-bled-the-clutch-but-no-pressure-in-lever-or-at-slave-cylinder-1993/page-2#entry886323 Check that slave cylinder piston... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRad704 Posted April 26, 2013 Share Posted April 26, 2013 Well this seems familiar... :) If everything seems properly bled (and air-free), try removing the slave cylinder and pumping the clutch lever. You should see the slave slide moving in and out freely. If no movement, then maybe you have a bad master cylinder? or trapped air in the line. If you DO see movement, make sure the control rod (going through the bottom end toward the clutch) is not seized in place. It should be able to move in/out some. Just replace the slave cylinder, but remember to keep your left eye closed and kneel on 1 knee (NOT both knees) while tightening the 3 slave cylinder bolts. It might not be science, but it worked for me... :D In the end, I really had no master cylinder or bleeding issues, the slave slide was not engaging the control rod properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Higgin Posted April 26, 2013 Author Share Posted April 26, 2013 Hey brad, thanks for the info. While doing a search yesterday, I specifically remember reading the second page of your other post, but I think it was when I was searching about my speedbleeder and I didn't read the whole thing. Der. I actually remember at one point while installing the new slave cyl that I accidentally pulled that rod going to the clutch out a little and kind of freaked thinking I shouldn't be able to pull that out. I just kind of pushed it back, and quickly forgot about it. So I guess my next course of action is to carefully pull the slave back off and see if the piston is moving and check to make sure that rod is engaged the way it should be. I probably screwed something up super simple and it causing me all this grief.....Well, that's my hope anyway! Will report back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Higgin Posted April 27, 2013 Author Share Posted April 27, 2013 Success!! Well, I think anyway...can't get it out to test till probably tomorrow. It turns out there was just air stil in the line somewhere. I tapped around on the line yesterday with the handle of a screwdriver and ended up taking a day off of working on the bike to relax and today I tried the lever out and Viola! Works! Very happy about that! The rebuilt Master and brand new slave give an awesome feel at the lever. Honestly, the old slave cyl was so jacked up I can't believe the clutch worked at all (it started acting up during the last 500 miles of last riding season). Once I got the old slave off, I saw what the problem was.....the piston bore was totally pitted all the way around causing fluid to leak by slowly and causing the piston to get hung up and not move smoothly. it would move halfway, get stuck for a second, and then come the rest of the way out slowly. So like I said, I'm amazed the clutch even functioned. But this totally explains why I thought the clutch was slipping occationally after shifts in low gears. Thanks for all the replys and help, hopefully it all works now :) And now it's off to put the speedbleeders on the brakes and bleed them out. Hopefully I have better luck with them, but with the complexity there, I'm not holding out much hope lol! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Belfry Posted April 27, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted April 27, 2013 Congrats! I was going to chime in earlier, but I couldn't find the thread I started about two years ago when I had a similar problem (must have gotten wiped in the big purge). A few days before a big summer trip (3,000 miles or so, planned for months ...), I decided to install my new Heli-bars. All went well with that, except I cracked the banjo bolt on the clutch MC a little too much to reposition the line and let in some air. I didn't think it was a big deal since I had bought speed bleeders and was planning to change the clutch fluid at some point anyway. I started trying to bleed the system but had zero pressure at the lever. Very little was dribbling out of the speed bleeder (instead of squirting out as it should). I bought a Mity Vac and was able to suck all the old fluid out, but I still had no pressure at the lever. With my deadline approaching, I tried turning the bars to the right to make the MC the highest point and tying off the lever overnight (suggested here--no luck), tapping all along the lines (some bubbles in the MC, but no luck), and a few other techniques (handstands, crossed eyes, holding breath, language that threatened to damage the paint ...). Out of desperation I just kept pumping the (zero resistance) clutch lever and adding more fluid when it eventually went down. I must have run a liter of new fluid through the lines. Just as I was about to give up and start packing the car (the trip was the next day), I thought I felt a little resistance at the lever. Then more. Then the fluid started squirting out of the speed bleeder! After a couple more minutes I had full pressure, better than before the change (as it should be). I went for a test ride and, assured that all was well, came home, put all the tools away and started packing the bike luggage for the trip. Many of the inmates here contributed suggestions--including to just keep pumping the lever even though it felt like there was no resistance at all. My best guess is that a very small amount of trapped air was enough to cause all the problems. And, like you, I have all the speed bleeders for the brake system, but I haven't yet screwed up the courage to attempt that job since it's supposed to be trickier than the clutch! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Higgin Posted April 27, 2013 Author Share Posted April 27, 2013 Haha, Belfry, thats exactly what happened to me.....I also just installed helibars along with all this other work. I had planned on draining the clutch master anyway, but I did losen the banjo on the brake line a little too much and got some air in there...no pressure at the brake lever. Luckily I had the speedbleeder set ready to go an did the brake bleeding today. Honestly, it was not bad at all once I deciphered through the 2 or 3 writeups on here, and the service manual. Honestly, I found it easier to follow the service manual, just doing exactly the steps it described for "using an industrial brake bleeder" except instead of using the industrial brake bleeder, I used the speedbleeders and pumped the handle/footlever. I went through this morning and put all the speedbleeders in, then spent probably 3-4 hours reading everything and trying to combine it all into my own list.....and then it probably took 1.5 hours to do the actual bleeding. Mostly because you have to take off the rear tire and turn the rear brake calpier upside down, plus I went really slow so I wouldn't screw anything up. I bet next time I could do it in 45 minutes. The speedbleeders make allllllll the difference. Now, starting with a totally dry system would probably take forever, but with fluid already in the lines, it was honestly not hard at all. Just follow the service manual and use the writeups on here mainly for the pictures. Keep in mind, the write ups I found on here were all done using 6th gen bikes, and although the brake bleeders are almost the same, there is one critical difference. The 5th have a center bleeder on both fron calipers, and the 6th has only a center bleeder on the left caliper, but also has a second PCV beeder valve under the seat. That is what kept screwing me up when I would read through the writeups and then compare to the 5th gen sservice manual. I kept saying WTF??? Until I found diagrams of both systems and figured out what the difference was. Anyway, if you have the speedbleeders, go for it! I was amazed at how brown my fluid was. I dont even want to think how long it's been in there from previous owners.....quite possibly original, as the brake pads also looked to be original (changed them too) and thats probably what led to my clutch slave failure. I'm already impressed vy the difference in the lever and footlever feel. Cant wait to get it out on the road, hopefully tomorrow if I can stay up late enough tonight to get all the plastics back on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MJay Posted October 14, 2013 Share Posted October 14, 2013 I actually remember at one point while installing the new slave cyl that I accidentally pulled that rod going to the clutch out a little and kind of freaked thinking I shouldn't be able to pull that out. I just kind of pushed it back, and quickly forgot about it. (Little thread resurrection here.) I did this exact same thing last night and it freaked me out. Have been worried about it going back in correctly ever since. Your experience has calmed my worry a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Ranger77 Posted October 15, 2013 Member Contributer Share Posted October 15, 2013 Its just a rod that goes to the other side of the engine. I pull it out and put a thin coat of grease on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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