Member Contributer pres589 Posted May 9, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted May 9, 2012 2004 VFR, non-ABS, did Honda not want people to ever consider replacing the rear shock unit? I think I burned half an hour at least trying to get the top bolt out of the rear shock unit on this thing last night until hanging it up. 14mm combo wrench on the bolt, 17mm combo wrench on the nut, and this thing is so hard to get to I never did get the thing completely apart. The bottom bolt was nothing, just fire up the compressor and a touch of the impact wrench and I'm good. But that top... I've got the tank pulled off and set forward and it isn't in the way, unless I'm supposed to swing a wrench at the nut from the front side. Plastic all off the rear of the bike including the battery and opposite covers, pulled the rear MC reservoir out of the way, along with an electrical disconnect that was in the same general area. If the linked brake prop valve wasn't hanging out in front of the nut maybe life would be easier. Is there something I'm missing or is this just one of those things that stinks to deal with no matter how a guy attacks it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer digitallyhip Posted May 9, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted May 9, 2012 If you had an ABS version, you'd also have the joy of removing the preload adjuster... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Egg on Leggs Posted May 9, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted May 9, 2012 Pres, just undo and remove the rear tank bolt, after releasing the front then raise rear of tank to reveal the top bolt of the top shock mount and drop the lot. To put it back just attach the top mount to the shock, thread it back up, bit of a wiggle, get the nut back on a few threads and rest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bayarearider Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Hmm, don't recall it being that much of an issue when I threw the "Oh" on. Especially since it was my first. A little cramped but once properly stripped all reachable. Hope it works out for you. You will be happy with the upgrade! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer pres589 Posted May 9, 2012 Author Member Contributer Share Posted May 9, 2012 Pres, just undo and remove the rear tank bolt, after releasing the front then raise rear of tank to reveal the top bolt of the top shock mount and drop the lot. To put it back just attach the top mount to the shock, thread it back up, bit of a wiggle, get the nut back on a few threads and rest So under the tail of the tank, where that hard mount is, I pull that up after removing it's retaining bolt/hinge? What else needs to happen? I didn't see an angle of attack available from the top that far forward. I won't get to do much with the bike tonight but I'll see if I can get 10 minutes in the garage and either get the bolt out or take a picture of what I'm seeing and ask again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEBSPEED Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 It should only take about an hour to swap the shock on a non-abs. Leave the tail intact. Pull the seat, prop the tank up, remove the rear wheel. Remove the triangle plates and jack the swingarm up as high as it will go. Then undo the top mount nut, shock will slip easily out the bottom. Reverse for assembly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer pres589 Posted May 9, 2012 Author Member Contributer Share Posted May 9, 2012 instructions instructions... The problem I was having was getting access to the top bolt. The rest of this is pretty straight forward. Eggs says to head down at it from the top side, I seem to remember the rear subframe getting in the way as well as some other bits from the tank's rear mounting hardware, although I can take another look at that tonight. I'm only asking about this bolt, can you just address that aspect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monk Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 instructions instructions... I'm only asking about this bolt, can you just address that aspect? Easy even I can do it........ Like Seb said one nut at the top drop the shock out then worry about the nut and bolt on the top of the shock........ But you need to drop the shock 1st, to get to the nut and bolt.The trick is putting it back......... You'll need to reinstall the nut and bolt tight enough to stay in place while you put the shock in the top hole.........and once it's lined up remove it again and torgue it down then put it back in the top hole again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEBSPEED Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Lemme see if I can find the pic I have of my bike mid-swap. I removed the front tank bolts, then the rear, propped the tank up at the back with a piece of wood and had at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEBSPEED Posted May 9, 2012 Share Posted May 9, 2012 Here you go... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer pres589 Posted May 10, 2012 Author Member Contributer Share Posted May 10, 2012 Okay, I didn't realize the right approach was to pull the clevis using that bolt; I was trying to seperate the shock and the clevis while it was all still in the bike. That figured out, I'm now having a mother of a time trying to get the nitrogen canister on the 929 shock past the swingarm. If the bike didn't have a cat in the exhaust maybe this would be easier... I really hate working on this bike. Any suggestions / new ideas on how to install the shock? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monk Posted May 10, 2012 Share Posted May 10, 2012 Did you jack the swing-arm up, it makes it easy to remove/install the stock shock. Do you have a 929 already installed on the bike, or are you trying to replace the stock shock with a 929? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer pres589 Posted May 10, 2012 Author Member Contributer Share Posted May 10, 2012 Did you jack the swing-arm up, it makes it easy to remove/install the stock shock. Do you have a 929 already installed on the bike, or are you trying to replace the stock shock with a 929? I walked back out there and got the shock into the bike from a "it's sort of close to the installed position" stand point. But I cannot seem to do whatever is required to get the vertical clevis bolt to pass through the frame. I'm replacing a stock shock with a 929 unit from Jamie D. The resevoir is scraping up against the undertray & related bits while I'm trying to rotate / push / pull the shock into position. I can barely touch the clevis while this is going on... I have the rear wheel of and the swingarm is resting on the pad of my floor jack via the rear brake caliper. Do I need to cut parts to get the 929 shock & reservoir to fit the VFR? I'm scared to start pulling the bike appart to install this thing but I don't see how else it's possible. Seperating the shock from the clevis gets me closer and I can't get the cross bolt that holds the two together in. Seriously not enjoying this. If I could remove the side panels but I don't see how they come off; will go looking for procedure on how to remove the panel with the seat lock and the panel on the opposite side to try and gain access to the clevis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer pres589 Posted May 10, 2012 Author Member Contributer Share Posted May 10, 2012 It's in. That was horrible. I'll never be a professional motorcycle tech at this rate... Still some body work to bolt on but I threw the seat back on and took the bike off the center stand and just worked the suspension with my weight sitting still in the garage. The forks seems slightly noisier than before. The rear is much stiffer; I'm sure there's threads on this but if you told me it was 50% stiffer than stock I'd believe every word. Thanks for putting up with this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bayarearider Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Wait til you try the valve check... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer pres589 Posted May 11, 2012 Author Member Contributer Share Posted May 11, 2012 Wait til you try the valve check... Unless the bike starts to really not run that well, I have no intention of doing a valve check, and will probably sell at that point. Probably make a transition to a Z1000 or something along those lines at that time. Had the bike out for a bit tonight and so far it's great. Brake dive is so drastically reduced, and the pogo effect of the rear "damper" seems to be gone as well. Need to get more time to adjust to it and see if I want to make any changes but out of the box and with 40mm of fork above the top tripple, everything seems great, and I'm glad I went through with the change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monk Posted May 11, 2012 Share Posted May 11, 2012 Glad you got it installed.......... Now talking about stiff, did you get a spring for your wt. ? If so it's going to be stiffer, but if it's for your wt., and you get the sag adjusted so it doesn't bottom or top out, it won't be a negitive (unless it's a leaf spring off my Jeep). Remember to adjust the sag for the right numbers and results, and don't get shy with the compression ring if it takes you into a more compressed direction(if it's a straight spring)because the spring rate doesn't change and it won't make the spring stiffer. Basicly your objective is to get the rear of the bike to where it takes 2/3rds of the movement to compress(with out bottoming out). And when your bike is moving up from settled you have 1/3rd of the shocks motion to work with to keep it from topping out. There will be some variance from 1 bike to another, but that the general goal. If you know all this stuff, great, but there's ppl that don't so this may help someone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer pres589 Posted May 11, 2012 Author Member Contributer Share Posted May 11, 2012 Monk: Jamie D. took my weight info and my intended use for the bike and applied that info to new springs front and rear to match. Will play with sag when I get a chance, right now I need to search my belongings for my chain break, there's a new chain waiting to go on but I've moved four times since I last used it. It's in the garage or the house somewhere... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer pres589 Posted May 15, 2012 Author Member Contributer Share Posted May 15, 2012 ...some stuff about setup.... I don't think I have adequate sag, it's only dropping about an inch with my weight applied, will try to get a more accurate read on it soon. Not looking forward to dealing with that, I think I have the preload backed off on the rear as much as the shock allows. Checked the front preload tonight, was at the third ring on the preload adjusters, backed them out to about 4 & 1/3rd of a ring... how far out can I go? I think I hit it pretty well where I'm at, just hoping I'm not too far off the useable safe range on the adjusters. Will know more tomorrow after my commute into work as I run through a somewhat rough on-ramp that I'm well acquainted with. Not touching damper adjustments until I get get a little more sag into the rear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monk Posted May 15, 2012 Share Posted May 15, 2012 Pres, Can you see the notches of the preload ring ? Be sure you have it fully adjusted to the soft setting, if you're only getting a inch of movement! It could be that the spring is too strong, but let's not jump on that bandwagon yet, because it sounds like you may not know enough about the sag in the 1st place (as I didn't when I started doing sags for mine).The frt preload can be turned all the way in either direction and will come to a stopping point that you will feel(DO NOT OVER TIGHTEN AT THE END OF THE TRAVEL AT EITHER END). You need to measure the full travel of both frt and rear ..... Then write down how much travel (inches or mm)it is to end up with only 1/3rd of the bike and your wt. ....and set the preload to get that number. Then you'll be in the ball park. I was going to send a link to Dave moss' set up, but can'nt get the flashplay're to work on this PC. Go to Youtube / mc suspension / Dave Moss / watch video. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer pres589 Posted May 15, 2012 Author Member Contributer Share Posted May 15, 2012 Pres, Can you see the notches of the preload ring ? Be sure you have it fully adjusted to the soft setting, if you're only getting a inch of movement! It could be that the spring is too strong, but let's not jump on that bandwagon yet, because it sounds like you may not know enough about the sag in the 1st place (as I didn't when I started doing sags for mine).The frt preload can be turned all the way in either direction and will come to a stopping point that you will feel(DO NOT OVER TIGHTEN AT THE END OF THE TRAVEL AT EITHER END). You need to measure the full travel of both frt and rear ..... Then write down how much travel (inches or mm)it is to end up with only 1/3rd of the bike and your wt. ....and set the preload to get that number. Then you'll be in the ball park. I was going to send a link to Dave moss' set up, but can'nt get the flashplay're to work on this PC. Go to Youtube / mc suspension / Dave Moss / watch video. I didn't hit the limit on the fork adjusters, when I got the forks they were set at the 3rd ring, I backed them out further so they're about 1/3rd past the 4th ring. So about 1 cm farther out than before. Front seems more compliant, need to get rear inline next. Not sure where preload adjuster wrench is for my VFR and not sure if CBR929 shock would use that same tool or one specific to that bike. Ideas? The inch of movement of the rear suspension is from static balancing the bike vertically with all weight on the wheels and then with my weight added, that's the inch or so of movement. If I need to start by lifting up on the rear to totally unload the suspension then let the bike settle + sitting on it to find the sag, it would be somewhat greater than what I originally estimated, although probably not a lot, and I really need to use a wire tie on the male section of the shock or something similar to find this distance moved vs. trying to make an estimate "by feel". Ergo, I'm not putting a lot of value in my one inch estimate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Q-Dawg Posted May 20, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted May 20, 2012 Did you jack the swing-arm up, it makes it easy to remove/install the stock shock. Do you have a 929 already installed on the bike, or are you trying to replace the stock shock with a 929? I walked back out there and got the shock into the bike from a "it's sort of close to the installed position" stand point. But I cannot seem to do whatever is required to get the vertical clevis bolt to pass through the frame. I'm replacing a stock shock with a 929 unit from Jamie D. The resevoir is scraping up against the undertray & related bits while I'm trying to rotate / push / pull the shock into position. I can barely touch the clevis while this is going on... I have the rear wheel of and the swingarm is resting on the pad of my floor jack via the rear brake caliper. Do I need to cut parts to get the 929 shock & reservoir to fit the VFR? I'm scared to start pulling the bike appart to install this thing but I don't see how else it's possible. Seperating the shock from the clevis gets me closer and I can't get the cross bolt that holds the two together in. Seriously not enjoying this. If I could remove the side panels but I don't see how they come off; will go looking for procedure on how to remove the panel with the seat lock and the panel on the opposite side to try and gain access to the clevis. Guys, I could really use a hand with this right now. I'm doing the very same thing: trying to get a Jamie Daugherty modified 929 shock to insert into the bike, but having a heck of a time with it. It just doesn't seem to have room for me to get the reservoir past the swingarm completely. I followed the remove-the-rear-wheel method to access the bolts, and I removed all the links / hardware that connect swingarm to lower end of the shock. Only thing left is to look at removing other parts and / or whatever tricks anyone else can suggest from their experience. What finally ended up working for you to get it all back in there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 I'm in the same situation on my 6th Gen. I have ABS and couldn't get the remote pre-load adjuster past the POS ABS valving for anything. Jamie said that you can disconnect the lower subframe bolts (and rear exhaust too) and pivot the whole thing up. I'll be giving it a shot this weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 Wait til you try the valve check... Unless the bike starts to really not run that well, I have no intention of doing a valve check, and will probably sell at that point. Probably make a transition to a Z1000 or something along those lines at that time. Had the bike out for a bit tonight and so far it's great. Brake dive is so drastically reduced, and the pogo effect of the rear "damper" seems to be gone as well. Need to get more time to adjust to it and see if I want to make any changes but out of the box and with 40mm of fork above the top tripple, everything seems great, and I'm glad I went through with the change. If the bike starts "really not run that well" due to valve clearance, adjusting them isn't going to fix it. You have burned a valve and it's time to rebuild the affected cylinder head. Honestly, if you're a competent mechanic, it's time consuming but not that hard. If removing and replacing a camshaft is beyond your abilities, you're not much of a mechanic. That said, I did mine at 18K and I think I will start checking the VTec valves every other adjustment interval. Unless you're running on the track, most of the time they are just sitting there. I don't see how they can wear their seats out at the same rate as the valves that operate all the time. Any other sort of wear will cause an increase in clearance which will cause noise and make itself known. I use nothing but Honda synthetic oil so I don't expect friction wear to be an issue. On the original topic, I would like to thank the folks that chimed in with directions. I just finished putting an "Ohlins Lite" shock on my 06 and it was a piece of cake. Putting the Race Tech springs in the forks took longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer didit Posted May 30, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted May 30, 2012 Nothing like the trials and tribulations of others to motivate or instill fear. I'm just waiting for my F4i replacement to arrive from Jamie D. I'm debating to either take it on myself or just take it to my mechanic buddy and say "here, how much" 2004, ABS. I went looking for a thread with a bunch of pics, so myke_w or Q-Dawg - while you are at it, post up the procedure pics. If not, I'll either post up my adventure or me handing money to Steve to just do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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