TEXTILE VS. LEATHER

[flavadave]

Overpants VS. Chaps :beatdeadhorse: was clear that most riders would rather fight overpants on and off rather than leave their butts open for raod rash.

On a side note, it did seem funny that although most men are worried about their own butts they had no issue with seeing the ladies in chaps. Safety seems to be localized to on side of the brain unless the otherside takes over. Butt (see what I did there?) this is different issue, and I am no expert. My girl is the best seat cover I have ever seen (stick that in your after market).

TEXTILE VS. LEATHER

What are the Pros and Cons of each? What style of or type of rider are you? What drives you to buy what you buy when it comes down to dropping the cash on the cashiers counter?

[Rice]

If you plan on going over the legal speed limit, then it is leather all the way. It is the best protection against abrasion. Period.

It also looks damn good. (on some people :cool:)

However, for me, it is not as practical as textile.

Textile is substantially cheaper, lighter, more versatile in hot/cold weather and can be water proof. It also takes up less storage room.

Case in point.

On my commute, I put ski pants over my work pants. (yeah, I know - no protection), but the same can be applied to the proper textile mot. pants. When I arrive to work, I unzip the sides and toss them into the top box along with my helmet, gloves and other paraphernalia.

I've been rained on, experienced, cold and hot changeovers during the day and even ... AHEM... tested the abrasion resistance on several occasions. The textile pants have passed all tests with flying colors and I didn't have to spend too much coin for them.

Don't get me wrong. I am not against leather. Own two pairs of pants myself. But I never take them on my commute. Cost/benefit just doesn't work out, since they really don't offer any more protection in a low speed get-off. I don't go very fast to work, so abrasion resistance isn't as much a concern as impact.

[bryan217]

I use textile jacket and overpants. Like Rice said, it's much more convenient and comfortable in various weather conditions. I'm an ATGATT guy, even when going to work. I just unzip the overpants and stuff them in the bag liner for my hard cases. They're on all the time now. It's great for commuting, to bring shoes, etc. to put on when I get to work. I only use overpants with CE certified armor. There's hard armor in the knees and padding along the hips.

My wife was considering chaps as she doesn't ride that much. But once I educated her how most chaps are just designed for looks, she compromised and uses a pair of Draggin Jeans. She definitely falls into the category of looking good in leather (me, not so much). Maybe one of these days, I'll get a pair for her. :wub:

[cruzinaz]

Only thing better than eating a dead cow is wearing one. Leather is the safest if you wind up doing the pavement luge. After watching a good friend hit a deer at 50ish and seeing what happened to his gear it just made me a bigger believer in what I already was,, ATGATT :fing02:

BTW, he had ZERO road rash, his cow had to be replaced however. :laughing6-hehe:

[flavadave]

ATGATT

All The Gear All The Time

:fing02:

[MuddDawg]

In the Pacific North Wet ...If you don't ride it the rain then you don't ride.

I drank the Motoport Koolaid.

I have the Air Mesh Kevlar and run rain liners 80% of the time. Yes it's a pain, but being ATGATT is a pain, but less pain then needing it and not having it.

Ponder this....

"

Tear and Abrasion Strength by the numbers

Product / Material Pounds of force until fabric tears Abrasion cycles until fabric fails

CottonJeans 4.5 pounds to tear 50 cycles to failure

70 Denier Standard Nylon 4.5 pounds to tear 165 cycles to failure

500 Denier Polyester 8 pounds to tear 180 cycles to failure

200 Denier Standard Nylon 7.5 pounds to tear 275 cycles to failure

500 Denier Cordura 22 pounds to tear 710 cycles to failure

620 Denier Cordura 35 pounds to tear 1200 cycles to failure

NEW Competition Grade Leather 80-110 pounds to tear 1200-1700 cycles to failure

1000 Denier Cordura 110 pounds to tear 1780 cycles to failure

Air Mesh Kevlar 1260 pounds to tear 1800 cycles to failure

Stretch Kevlar Blend 420lbs pounds to tear 1800 cycles to failure "

And this..

"

Leather

Who wore it before you did?

Leather has long been a good protective fabric. However, many variables can effect its' quality including, the type, age and diet of the animal it came from. Different methods used to clean, tan and dye the leather effect it as well. Unfortunately the best way to tell if the garment is made of good leather is to look at the price tag. Good leather costs more and that cost is passed on to the consumer. Leather should be worn snug because when leather folds it's tear strength lowers considerably. As an organic material leather dries out and looses it's flexibility over time. In fact each time leather gets wet and dries it can loose up to 20% of it's tear and abrasion strength. If a good leather conditioner is used it is still impossible to soften the inside of the leather properly unless the inner liner can be removed."

http://www.motoport.com/save-your-hide

[Baileyrock]

Many/most Textile over pants have full length leg zippers allowing easier access! :fing02:

I wear leather 365 days a year from 20 to 100 degrees, but I tend to haul azz and want all the protection I can get in the twisties. :491:

[didit]

So happy to have my leathers for planned day rides and multi day / week trips.

I'll wear my textile jacket & overpants over clothing when doing in town (low speed) errand / work runs. Spend most of the time avoiding traffic via alternate routes and such.

In the end, I look at it like this.

Textiles are like rubbers. They provide some measure of safety, are only good for one use and never fully gaurantee your protection.

I guess that means leathers are like a vasectomy. You know your fixed but can still die at high speed / stupidity.

[Knife]

Many/most Textile over pants have full length leg zippers allowing easier access! :fing02:

I wear leather 365 days a year from 20 to 100 degrees, but I tend to haul azz and want all the protection I can get in the twisties. :491:

BR - What type of rain gear, if any, do you wear over your leathers?

[MuddDawg]

Textiles are like rubbers. They provide some measure of safety, are only good for one use and never fully gaurantee your protection.

I guess that means leathers are like a vasectomy. You know your fixed but can still die at high speed / stupidity.

Nice analogy. :biggrin:

[flavadave]

Textiles are like rubbers. They provide some measure of safety, are only good for one use and never fully gaurantee your protection.

I guess that means leathers are like a vasectomy. You know your fixed but can still die at high speed / stupidity.

Nice analogy. :biggrin:

I would like to point out that I was equally impressed as I was stunned by the facts that you have and the analogy you have. :lobby:

[Baileyrock]

Many/most Textile over pants have full length leg zippers allowing easier access! :fing02:

I wear leather 365 days a year from 20 to 100 degrees, but I tend to haul azz and want all the protection I can get in the twisties. :491:

BR - What type of rain gear, if any, do you wear over your leathers?

I wear a standard type Rain Suit over my leathers when needed and wear the top rain jacket as a wind breaker when it's really cool!

BR

[jaimev34]

Don't get me wrong. I am not against leather. Own two pairs of pants myself. But I never take them on my commute. Cost/benefit just doesn't work out, since they really don't offer any more protection in a low speed get-off. I don't go very fast to work, so abrasion resistance isn't as much a concern as impact.

I respectfully beg to differ. I went down at around 25-35 mph, which isn't very fast, and I had rash on my cheek and calf due to the ground going through my Joe Rocket textile pants. My leather jacket, however, kept me from getting any rash on my arms and back, and my gloves and boots (leather also) did their jobs. All articles of gear are still in use except for the pants, which are useless, except for maybe as cheekless chaps.

Textile is better than denim or bare skin, but it can't match leather's protection. Textile is less expensive and can be better for colder weather. But why skimp on protection. Roadrash sucks, especially on your ass.

[wwwobble]

In the Pacific North Wet ...If you don't ride it the rain then you don't ride.

I drank the Motoport Koolaid.

I have the Air Mesh Kevlar and run rain liners 80% of the time. Yes it's a pain, but being ATGATT is a pain, but less pain then needing it and not having it.

Ponder this....

"

Tear and Abrasion Strength by the numbers

Product / Material Pounds of force until fabric tears Abrasion cycles until fabric fails

CottonJeans 4.5 pounds to tear 50 cycles to failure

70 Denier Standard Nylon 4.5 pounds to tear 165 cycles to failure

500 Denier Polyester 8 pounds to tear 180 cycles to failure

200 Denier Standard Nylon 7.5 pounds to tear 275 cycles to failure

500 Denier Cordura 22 pounds to tear 710 cycles to failure

620 Denier Cordura 35 pounds to tear 1200 cycles to failure

NEW Competition Grade Leather 80-110 pounds to tear 1200-1700 cycles to failure

1000 Denier Cordura 110 pounds to tear 1780 cycles to failure

Air Mesh Kevlar 1260 pounds to tear 1800 cycles to failure

Stretch Kevlar Blend 420lbs pounds to tear 1800 cycles to failure "

And this..

"

Leather

Who wore it before you did?

Leather has long been a good protective fabric. However, many variables can effect its' quality including, the type, age and diet of the animal it came from. Different methods used to clean, tan and dye the leather effect it as well. Unfortunately the best way to tell if the garment is made of good leather is to look at the price tag. Good leather costs more and that cost is passed on to the consumer. Leather should be worn snug because when leather folds it's tear strength lowers considerably. As an organic material leather dries out and looses it's flexibility over time. In fact each time leather gets wet and dries it can loose up to 20% of it's tear and abrasion strength. If a good leather conditioner is used it is still impossible to soften the inside of the leather properly unless the inner liner can be removed."

http://www.motoport.com/save-your-hide

Have you [or anybody] found any *other* tests that corroborate Motoport's data?

From what I've witnessed over the years, I'd rather be wearing old leather than be wearing poor textile. I've seen abraded textile suits at crashes of less than 35mph. Kevlar is a change, granted, yet I don't see it at the tracks -- which may, or may not, mean anything. On the other hand, plenty of leather makers (Bates, Helimot, others) have "hall of shame" displays of leathers that racers have worn during crashes at very high speeds. The displayed suits are intact.

Maybe what I'm really after is anybody's direct experience after crashing in a Kevlar based garment. Like, did it work?

WWWobble

[VeryFineRide]

I don't think I saw this mentioned yet. I go fully dressed all the time both leather and textile. 90MPH off on the track in full leathers was as comfortable as something like that could be. No road rash, a bit sore, if the bike wasn't trashed I could have jumped back on. One month ago I hit a deer doing 55-60 MPH. Went for a 53 foot asphalt luge in my Joe Rocket, Alter Ego 2 pants and jacket, light weight summer gloves with leather palm and mesh everything else. No road rash except on a couple of my fingers where the mesh was. Now my point, while I had no road rash on either occasion, on both I did have some bad burns. Leather was more second degree, but the textile was pretty bad 3rd degree burns. For days after the deer hit I was peeling melted textile material out of my wounds and off my skin, NOT fun. One month later the burn on my knee is almost gone, I'll give it another week before I consider skin grafting. I now have a Roadcrafter suit and JR leather pants with a Vanson leather jacket. While they will both work, I really don't want to perform this comparison again!

[wera803]

Have you [or anybody] found any *other* tests that corroborate Motoport's data?

From what I've witnessed over the years, I'd rather be wearing old leather than be wearing poor textile. I've seen abraded textile suits at crashes of less than 35mph. Kevlar is a change, granted, yet I don't see it at the tracks -- which may, or may not, mean anything. On the other hand, plenty of leather makers (Bates, Helimot, others) have "hall of shame" displays of leathers that racers have worn during crashes at very high speeds. The displayed suits are intact.

Maybe what I'm really after is anybody's direct experience after crashing in a Kevlar based garment. Like, did it work?

WWWobble

I ended up getting the Motoport Kevlar mesh suit about 1 1/2 years ago. Although living in Georgia, I only use the upper rain and thermal liner probably 20% of the time and the lower rain liner 2% of the time.

I was skeptical at first as well. I just didn't want to spend that kind of money on a suit that wasn't leather. Heck, I didn't want to spend that kind of money on a leather suit to be honest. Anyways, I had an Aerostich and decided it was just too hot for GA weather. I needed something for commuting to work though along with weekend trips 2-up when I didn't want to wear my 1-piece leather suit everywhere. A local guy I met had the suit and had been down in it because of a diesel spill in a corner. He probably hit the ground doing 45-50 mph and there was one spot on the suit that looked scuffed. He sent it back and the owner of Motoport said if he crashed 3 more times in the exact same spot, they "might" have to repair it.

Here is a thread with 1292 posts about the suit. Mostly quality and fitment, but you get the idea if you want to read them. ADV Rider

[soichiro]

I have a full leather suit and 2 textile suits. One is joe rocket textile, IT IS CRAP!! I hate joe rocket, my opinion.

I also have a tourmaster set and would rather wear that textile suit than anything else. I have been down at low speed and didnt get a scratch, probably 35mph. Textile pants did their job and are still in use.

I like the feel of the leather suit best but it is a lot less versatile. If it's cold, the leather iscold, if it's hot, leather will cook you.

My tourmaster overpants zip down the sides so they can be wore over you regular clothes. When I wear my textiles I always have on several layers and I wear MX knee, shin guards under my blue jeans, along with the armor in the pants.

So I m really wearing, padded shorts, knee, shin guards, jeans, heavily armored textile pants, this is in temps below 65F.

THE MAIN THING IS THE MATERIAL. TEXTILES HAVE COME A LONG WAY. CHEAP GEAR IS JUST THAT CHEAP, LEATHER OR TEXTILE. YOU CAN BUY VERY GOOD TEXTILE GEAR. SOME TEXTILE OR MESH IS SO CHEAP I WOULDNT WANT TO FALL OFF A BICYCLE ON IT. THERE IS ALSO CRAP LEATHER GEAR OUT THERE.

Most textiles have removable, rain, thermal liners, which is more versatile, especially when traveling distance.

I like tourmaster, cortech, textiles, it is good stuff.

Dont get me wrong, leather offers the best protection period. However my first leather suit is a teknic. The armor in the pants sucks, it is useless. My textile pants have much better armor. I would rather land on my knee in my textiles over my leather. I wear the knee, shin guards with both. Ridning boots are amust. They dont have to be race boots, just over the ankle good quality boots.

You may hear people say that they crashed and their textile, (usually mesh) gear was torn up, BUT they didnt get any road rash. Think of it as a crumple zone on a an auto. The gear may tear some but it gives it's life for yours. Textile is fine if you dont plan on sliding down the road at 100mph.

I wouldnt wear any glove other than leather full gauntlets unless it's pouring rain.

If you have an impact it usually doesnt matter what your wearing.

Any gear is better than no gear. Spend the extra coin and get good stuff. Thats the bottom line.

[wwwobble]

Have you [or anybody] found any *other* tests that corroborate Motoport's data?

...

Maybe what I'm really after is anybody's direct experience after crashing in a Kevlar based garment. Like, did it work?

WWWobble

I ended up getting the Motoport Kevlar mesh suit about 1 1/2 years ago. Although living in Georgia, I only use the upper rain and thermal liner probably 20% of the time and the lower rain liner 2% of the time.

I was skeptical at first as well. I just didn't want to spend that kind of money on a suit that wasn't leather. Heck, I didn't want to spend that kind of money on a leather suit to be honest. Anyways, I had an Aerostich and decided it was just too hot for GA weather. I needed something for commuting to work though along with weekend trips 2-up when I didn't want to wear my 1-piece leather suit everywhere. A local guy I met had the suit and had been down in it because of a diesel spill in a corner. He probably hit the ground doing 45-50 mph and there was one spot on the suit that looked scuffed. He sent it back and the owner of Motoport said if he crashed 3 more times in the exact same spot, they "might" have to repair it.

Here is a thread with 1292 posts about the suit. Mostly quality and fitment, but you get the idea if you want to read them. ADV Rider

Thanks for your comments and the link. I've worked my way thru about 40% of it -- it starts to resemble work.. :-) Anyway, it appears from the few posts from guys who went down that Kevlar does offer decent protection, which is good to learn.

WWWobble

[Baileyrock]

Some of these numbers are impressive, might have to look at some of this higher end textile and it's cost!

NEW Competition Grade Leather 80-110 pounds to tear 1200-1700 cycles to failure

1000 Denier Cordura 110 pounds to tear 1780 cycles to failure

Air Mesh Kevlar 1260 pounds to tear 1800 cycles to failure

Stretch Kevlar Blend 420lbs pounds to tear 1800 cycles to failure "

BR

[Chuckster]

Can't beat leather for cold weather riding. I have a Joe Rocket leather jacket and a Hein Gericke leather jacket, both of them do great at keeping the cold air off of me. I had a textile jacket that didn't do as good a job with that. :smile:

[jaimev34]

In the Pacific North Wet ...If you don't ride it the rain then you don't ride.

I drank the Motoport Koolaid.

I have the Air Mesh Kevlar and run rain liners 80% of the time. Yes it's a pain, but being ATGATT is a pain, but less pain then needing it and not having it.

Ponder this....

"

Tear and Abrasion Strength by the numbers

Product / Material Pounds of force until fabric tears Abrasion cycles until fabric fails

CottonJeans 4.5 pounds to tear 50 cycles to failure

70 Denier Standard Nylon 4.5 pounds to tear 165 cycles to failure

500 Denier Polyester 8 pounds to tear 180 cycles to failure

200 Denier Standard Nylon 7.5 pounds to tear 275 cycles to failure

500 Denier Cordura 22 pounds to tear 710 cycles to failure

620 Denier Cordura 35 pounds to tear 1200 cycles to failure

NEW Competition Grade Leather 80-110 pounds to tear 1200-1700 cycles to failure

1000 Denier Cordura 110 pounds to tear 1780 cycles to failure

Air Mesh Kevlar 1260 pounds to tear 1800 cycles to failure

Stretch Kevlar Blend 420lbs pounds to tear 1800 cycles to failure "

And this..

"

Leather

Who wore it before you did?

Leather has long been a good protective fabric. However, many variables can effect its' quality including, the type, age and diet of the animal it came from. Different methods used to clean, tan and dye the leather effect it as well. Unfortunately the best way to tell if the garment is made of good leather is to look at the price tag. Good leather costs more and that cost is passed on to the consumer. Leather should be worn snug because when leather folds it's tear strength lowers considerably. As an organic material leather dries out and looses it's flexibility over time. In fact each time leather gets wet and dries it can loose up to 20% of it's tear and abrasion strength. If a good leather conditioner is used it is still impossible to soften the inside of the leather properly unless the inner liner can be removed."

http://www.motoport.com/save-your-hide

Thanks for the info about Motoport. I'm in the market for some new pants and after reading through their site, I'm sold. Apparently, their factory is located down the street from me, so I'm calling on Monday. They do custom work, which is great because I've got some long ass legs.

:fing02: