Member Contributer teleskier Posted November 10, 2009 Member Contributer Share Posted November 10, 2009 I assume this may be electrical hence posting in this area. My bike is idle at about 1900-2000 rpm's once fully warm. 6-700 rpms higher than it should. Starting in 2000 bikes had a WAX unit to control idle until coolant temperature rose. I am not familiar with the operation of a wax unit so I thought I would ask some experts. Is there something inside or externally that may need lubrication or does the unit just malfunction? All I know is that it uses engine coolant temperature to control throttle body position and idle. Any other possibilities you all could think of too? Thanks in advance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer teleskier Posted November 10, 2009 Author Member Contributer Share Posted November 10, 2009 No one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Vee-Ef-Ar Posted November 10, 2009 Member Contributer Share Posted November 10, 2009 Gday Teleskier... have you tried adjusting the idle down when she's warm? Or do then start having starting difficulties? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer teleskier Posted November 10, 2009 Author Member Contributer Share Posted November 10, 2009 I hate to adjust the warm idle down when there was not an issue before. Does not seem to me that the idle screw would move that easy especially since it had not changed in over 17K miles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobie1dog Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 I know........Kelly has been sitting on the bike lately...that will increase rpm's, your heart rate, the National Economy, etc. :fing02: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEBSPEED Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 Hey bud, long time, no see! Have you recently changed the coolant in the bike? The wax unit literally has wax inside, and it controls the starter valves. As the bike's coolant temp changes, the wax hardens and softens with the temp. You either have air in your cooling system, or your wax unit is bad or stuck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KanadianKen Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 CHances are good that your wax unit just needs to be cleaned up - the ports that let the coolant in an out get bunged up with grunge and prevent proper flow which properly heats up the wax unit. Found this out with my buddy DUDE when we were fixing his. Just take it off - clean up the inpput/output - and give it a go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CandyRedRC46 Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 my bike never really seems to high idle when cold... though it doesnt ever really get cold down here... i might wait to see what happens through winter. my friends cbr high idles everytime he first starts it for the day. im thinking about adjusting it, as my bike is very cold blooded. i usually dont attempt to ride it until its warmed up for a few minutes. does anyone have any clue about which way to turn the wax unit to bump up the cold idle? whats the specs like hot idle speed cold idle speed etc? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer dude Posted November 11, 2009 Member Contributer Share Posted November 11, 2009 CHances are good that your wax unit just needs to be cleaned up - the ports that let the coolant in an out get bunged up with grunge and prevent proper flow which properly heats up the wax unit. Found this out with my buddy DUDE when we were fixing his. Just take it off - clean up the inpput/output - and give it a go. Bingo!!!!! Just to clarify, when KK says things like "helped him fix, we did this or that" what he really means is he held the flashlight ;-) The good news is you can get to the wax unit without throttle body removal which is a definte bonus!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer dude Posted November 11, 2009 Member Contributer Share Posted November 11, 2009 my bike never really seems to high idle when cold... though it doesnt ever really get cold down here... i might wait to see what happens through winter. my friends cbr high idles everytime he first starts it for the day. im thinking about adjusting it, as my bike is very cold blooded. i usually dont attempt to ride it until its warmed up for a few minutes. does anyone have any clue about which way to turn the wax unit to bump up the cold idle? whats the specs like hot idle speed cold idle speed etc? Not possible to adjust the wax unit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KanadianKen Posted November 11, 2009 Share Posted November 11, 2009 CHances are good that your wax unit just needs to be cleaned up - the ports that let the coolant in an out get bunged up with grunge and prevent proper flow which properly heats up the wax unit. Found this out with my buddy DUDE when we were fixing his. Just take it off - clean up the inpput/output - and give it a go. Bingo!!!!! Just to clarify, when KK says things like "helped him fix, we did this or that" what he really means is he held the flashlight ;-) The good news is you can get to the wax unit without throttle body removal which is a definte bonus!!!! you phucker..... :biggrin: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer teleskier Posted November 12, 2009 Author Member Contributer Share Posted November 12, 2009 So it sounds like all I have to do is lift up the gas tank, remove the coolant line and clean out those ports? If so, that seems easy enough. How do you prevent coolant from totally leaking out when you remove the hoses? Stupid question? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer teleskier Posted November 12, 2009 Author Member Contributer Share Posted November 12, 2009 Hey bud, long time, no see! Have you recently changed the coolant in the bike? The wax unit literally has wax inside, and it controls the starter valves. As the bike's coolant temp changes, the wax hardens and softens with the temp. You either have air in your cooling system, or your wax unit is bad or stuck! Haven't changed the coolant in a bit. So how to "unstick" it? Isn't there a push rod or something involved? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer dude Posted November 12, 2009 Member Contributer Share Posted November 12, 2009 Hey bud, long time, no see! Have you recently changed the coolant in the bike? The wax unit literally has wax inside, and it controls the starter valves. As the bike's coolant temp changes, the wax hardens and softens with the temp. You either have air in your cooling system, or your wax unit is bad or stuck! Haven't changed the coolant in a bit. So how to "unstick" it? Isn't there a push rod or something involved? Well not quite that easy T ... remove the tank , airbox and related vac hoses ( make sure you number them , then disconnect some sensors , and your there. Remove the rad cap to release pressure then unhook the in and out lines on the wax unit housing. Dis assemble unit and see if the posrts are clogged with crap. If not , replace wax unit. Hope this helps Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer teleskier Posted November 12, 2009 Author Member Contributer Share Posted November 12, 2009 Do you have to totally remove the tank or can you just prop it open? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimlowe Posted November 12, 2009 Share Posted November 12, 2009 Got my 1999 vfr about 2 weeks ago,17000 miles on it,was idling at 1800-1900 revs.Adjusted the idle through the hole in the frame,now perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer dude Posted November 12, 2009 Member Contributer Share Posted November 12, 2009 Do you have to totally remove the tank or can you just prop it open? I found it easier to remove the tank, just take out the 2 rear bolts and swivel the tank around setting it where the seat is ( take off the seat, place a towel under tank , this allows easier access to the screws on the top airbox. Actually having re read your initial post, a quick question. When you first start the bike is it reving to 2500 3grand or higher ( like mine was) or is it just that the idle is to high when warmed up? If it's the later then just adjust idle down as mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer teleskier Posted November 12, 2009 Author Member Contributer Share Posted November 12, 2009 Do you have to totally remove the tank or can you just prop it open? I found it easier to remove the tank, just take out the 2 rear bolts and swivel the tank around setting it where the seat is ( take off the seat, place a towel under tank , this allows easier access to the screws on the top airbox. Actually having re read your initial post, a quick question. When you first start the bike is it reving to 2500 3grand or higher ( like mine was) or is it just that the idle is to high when warmed up? If it's the later then just adjust idle down as mentioned. Yes, when I start it, it revs to about 2300 rpms or so then when warm for a long time it goes down to about 2K rpms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maddog Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 Your fast idle issue on initial start-up sounds very much like what I experienced with my '00 last year. As it turned out, I had a couple of slow leaks in the cooling system, leaving the bike low on coolant. After fixing the leaks and topping up the coolant, the fast idle issue disappeared. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer teleskier Posted November 13, 2009 Author Member Contributer Share Posted November 13, 2009 I will check the coolant situation as well and make sure all fittings are tight, levels are correct etc. Out of curiosity, how does a slow coolant leak or low coolant affect high idle? Always trying to learn more.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 Im gonna try not to sound too terribly stupid here: iirc, coolant injection can be a performance upgrade in cars. I think the coolant drops cylinder temp or something allowing for better air/fuel mixing...(loosing it here)...uh... er... or something. So what may be going on is you are getting more performance at the set idle due to better mixing?? (I have broad shoulders... a little ribbing won't kill me--but I think I'm close). Someone here will correct me Im sure. This really IS a performance trick used on some mustangs and slomaros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEBSPEED Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 I will check the coolant situation as well and make sure all fittings are tight, levels are correct etc. Out of curiosity, how does a slow coolant leak or low coolant affect high idle? Always trying to learn more.... low level of coolant could allow an air pocket to form in/near the wax unit, allowing it to become airlocked. Since the coolant isn't flowing around it anymore, well, you get the picture. Sounds like dude is right right on having dealt with this exact issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer teleskier Posted November 16, 2009 Author Member Contributer Share Posted November 16, 2009 Well I got home from a weekend trip at 6 last night and decided to dig in. I pulled the plastics off to easily see all the cooling hoses and could see no signs of weepage at all. So I open the radiator cap, level was full so I put the cap back on. Next I just propped up the gas tank, removed all the garbage to access the WAX unit. Removed both coolant lines and noticed a couple of small drops of coolant weeping out of the WAX as I pulled the lines off. I took a small thin object inserted it into the coolant hoses, no crap inside. Did the same to the nipples on the WAX unit, no visible gunk. I did not disassemble any further. Put everything back together. It took 2 hours to do all this. Started the bike and as it hit 150 degrees it idled right down to 13-1400 rpms. Perfect. So not sure if burping the radiator cap did it or if there was something up inside those WAX nipples I could not see but it helped. My questions now are these . Can you take the WAX unit further apart? It looked as though the main body can be seperated and on the other end there is rubber held on place by a clamp. I did not do this. Second, on the back of the air box are two electrical things (very technical. the name escapes me) with the wiring that clips to the side in four places and are held together boy two long bolts. Anyway, at the top of each of these bolts is a "C" type clip for lack of a better description that goes over the ear of the unit. What is the purpose of these clips as I lost one somewhere down inside the side of the motor/frame. The bike runs fine so it seems but thought I would ask. Thanks to all who replied. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer dude Posted November 16, 2009 Member Contributer Share Posted November 16, 2009 Well I got home from a weekend trip at 6 last night and decided to dig in. I pulled the plastics off to easily see all the cooling hoses and could see no signs of weepage at all. So I open the radiator cap, level was full so I put the cap back on. Next I just propped up the gas tank, removed all the garbage to access the WAX unit. Removed both coolant lines and noticed a couple of small drops of coolant weeping out of the WAX as I pulled the lines off. I took a small thin object inserted it into the coolant hoses, no crap inside. Did the same to the nipples on the WAX unit, no visible gunk. I did not disassemble any further. Put everything back together. It took 2 hours to do all this. Started the bike and as it hit 150 degrees it idled right down to 13-1400 rpms. Perfect. So not sure if burping the radiator cap did it or if there was something up inside those WAX nipples I could not see but it helped. My questions now are these . Can you take the WAX unit further apart? It looked as though the main body can be seperated and on the other end there is rubber held on place by a clamp. I did not do this. Second, on the back of the air box are two electrical things (very technical. the name escapes me) with the wiring that clips to the side in four places and are held together boy two long bolts. Anyway, at the top of each of these bolts is a "C" type clip for lack of a better description that goes over the ear of the unit. What is the purpose of these clips as I lost one somewhere down inside the side of the motor/frame. The bike runs fine so it seems but thought I would ask. Thanks to all who replied. Man you were right there!!!! Not sure what clip it is you are referring to, but , if you get back in there , there are 2 Phillips head screws holding the waxunit onto the housing. Disconnect the 2 hoses(inlet, outlet) and the 2 screws and waxie will come right out. Disassemble and clean , reassemble and you should be good.( although sounds like you fixed it) Unless you dislodged some crap that was in the port you may have gotten lucky and fixed the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer teleskier Posted November 16, 2009 Author Member Contributer Share Posted November 16, 2009 Dude...Yes I even took those two screws out holding the WAX in place so I could tip it upward to get into the nipples easier. I just was not sure about taking the two screws out that hold the WAX body together...If it happens again I will do that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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