Member Contributer kaldek Posted August 14, 2007 Member Contributer Share Posted August 14, 2007 My '02 VFR has a wierd electrical "feature". I have previously replaced my 30amp fuse, and to ensure constant monitoring capabilities I have fitted a Signal Dynamics Heads-Up Voltage Monitor. I connected it directly to the battery (via a relay) so that it has an almost-direct connection to the battery itself and only comes on when the ignition switch is on. The monitor reports good voltage when the engine is cold and at idle. It also reports good voltage when the engine is above 3,500rpm. However, when the engine is hot and idling, it will tell me that my voltage is low (between 12.1 and 12.6 volts) at the battery. The problem is usually when idling, engine hot, and the radiator fan is on. I will need to rev the engine to 3,000rpm or so to get back to OK voltage (considered between 12.9 and 15.1 volts according to the "green" colour of the voltage monitor LED). Can anyone suggest a range of potential problems that will cause a drop in output from the regulator when the engine is hot and the revs are low? I am assuming possibly something faulty with the stator, but would need advice on how to measure that. I'm happy to ride around with a multimeter hooked up to the bike (as I've done that before). I should state that other than the voltage monitor warning me about the voltage drop, the bike exhibits no electrical faults whatsoever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wera803 Posted August 14, 2007 Share Posted August 14, 2007 My 5th gen has done the exact same thing for the past 2 years (since I put my volt meter on). I just haven't spent the time to really dig into it, but figure some of it has to do with crappy electrical connections per this other thread: http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=29975 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Misspent Youth Posted August 14, 2007 Share Posted August 14, 2007 Perhaps the charge shows when cold because of the higher idle speed. As I understand the process, there is NO charge at idle (not fast idle) because that could overcharge the battery, so the charge is scheduled to flow once rpm come up to 1,500 or so. In other words, it sounds like your system is normal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer jeremy556 Posted August 14, 2007 Member Contributer Share Posted August 14, 2007 Perhaps the charge shows when cold because of the higher idle speed. As I understand the process, there is NO charge at idle (not fast idle) because that could overcharge the battery, so the charge is scheduled to flow once rpm come up to 1,500 or so.In other words, it sounds like your system is normal. My volt meter shows within 1/10th volt of 14.3 at all times. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer kaldek Posted August 15, 2007 Author Member Contributer Share Posted August 15, 2007 Perhaps the charge shows when cold because of the higher idle speed. As I understand the process, there is NO charge at idle (not fast idle) because that could overcharge the battery, so the charge is scheduled to flow once rpm come up to 1,500 or so.In other words, it sounds like your system is normal. I'm not so sure. I'm concerned that at high temperatures something is expanding and causing the charging system to output less power. Does anyone know how to check the output of the stator? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer jeremy556 Posted August 15, 2007 Member Contributer Share Posted August 15, 2007 I'm not so sure. I'm concerned that at high temperatures something is expanding and causing the charging system to output less power. Does anyone know how to check the output of the stator? You can check voltage, use A/C setting of 60+ volts on your volt meter across the stator wires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tightwad Posted August 15, 2007 Share Posted August 15, 2007 I would be willing to bet your sensor wire is acting up on you. Before i fixed mine, I saw all sorts of numbers, and some were low. It is easy to check, and easy to diagnose, and easy to fix...I would suggest fixing it even if it isn't broken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer dinolee Posted August 15, 2007 Member Contributer Share Posted August 15, 2007 Pretty sure this normal. My 5th gen behaves the same way, with the upgraded reg/rec and fairly new battery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer kaldek Posted August 15, 2007 Author Member Contributer Share Posted August 15, 2007 I'm not so sure. I'm concerned that at high temperatures something is expanding and causing the charging system to output less power. Does anyone know how to check the output of the stator? You can check voltage, use A/C setting of 60+ volts on your volt meter across the stator wires. Since there are three wires from the stator, and only two wires on the multimeter, will any two of the stator wires do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer kaldek Posted August 15, 2007 Author Member Contributer Share Posted August 15, 2007 I would be willing to bet your sensor wire is acting up on you. Before i fixed mine, I saw all sorts of numbers, and some were low. It is easy to check, and easy to diagnose, and easy to fix...I would suggest fixing it even if it isn't broken. Yeah I'm going to do that mod since I have some spade connectors and heavy gauge wire lying around. Direct from the black wire to the positive battery terminal, yeah? I've seen some discussion around installing a 5 amp fuse inline on this new wire. Are we all in agreement this fuse is recommended; the existing rather long path back to the battery goes via the 30 amp fuse (and possibly the fuse block as well)? And now that I think of it, it should be connected via a relay too. I seem to recall your kit included the relay - I already have an ignition-controlled relay in place for my voltage monitor so I should probably hook into that. If we assume that the stator is bad and the regulator sees the low voltage coming off the battery but is unable to provide more oomph to bring it up to 14 volts or so, is this causing the regulator to over-work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer jeremy556 Posted August 15, 2007 Member Contributer Share Posted August 15, 2007 I'm not so sure. I'm concerned that at high temperatures something is expanding and causing the charging system to output less power. Does anyone know how to check the output of the stator? You can check voltage, use A/C setting of 60+ volts on your volt meter across the stator wires. Since there are three wires from the stator, and only two wires on the multimeter, will any two of the stator wires do? Yes, check 1&2, 1&3, 2&3. Careful not to touch them, as 60 volts a/c coming off the stator will probably pack a pretty decent punch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer kaldek Posted August 15, 2007 Author Member Contributer Share Posted August 15, 2007 Yes, check 1&2, 1&3, 2&3.Careful not to touch them, as 60 volts a/c coming off the stator will probably pack a pretty decent punch. OK, I might hook up the multimeter for a day while riding to compare the outputs when cold & hot. I'll wait to see if anyone else chips in with a "Don't to that!" post first though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer FotoMoto Posted August 15, 2007 Member Contributer Share Posted August 15, 2007 I skipped all the replies. Has your 02 stator had the recall upgrade? The originals don't put out enough volts in extreme situations. The symptoms surface if you do lots of low rpm running with the high beams and fan on. This will eventually discharge the battery and the bike will eventually stall. Also, a voltage drop when the fan kicks on is normal since it's such a big draw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tightwad Posted August 15, 2007 Share Posted August 15, 2007 Yes, check 1&2, 1&3, 2&3.Careful not to touch them, as 60 volts a/c coming off the stator will probably pack a pretty decent punch. OK, I might hook up the multimeter for a day while riding to compare the outputs when cold & hot. I'll wait to see if anyone else chips in with a "Don't to that!" post first though. this won't work, it has to be disconnected from the R/R for the test. I suggest the sensor wire, and beef up the other wires to save your 30 amp fuse some heartache. If you duplicate my harness(other than the connectors, unless you want) it will work well. I relayed my black wire, and fused it both. First tho, maybe ride around with the voltmeter testing the sensor wire voltage, and see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer kaldek Posted August 15, 2007 Author Member Contributer Share Posted August 15, 2007 I skipped all the replies. Has your 02 stator had the recall upgrade? The originals don't put out enough volts in extreme situations. The symptoms surface if you do lots of low rpm running with the high beams and fan on. This will eventually discharge the battery and the bike will eventually stall. Also, a voltage drop when the fan kicks on is normal since it's such a big draw. Interesting that you say this: there was no stator recall for '02 VFRs in Australia, so I've not had mine replaced. It doesn't get very cold here, so nobody fits the heated grips or anything like that. This may explain why they didn't recall the stators here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer jeremy556 Posted August 15, 2007 Member Contributer Share Posted August 15, 2007 Yes, check 1&2, 1&3, 2&3.Careful not to touch them, as 60 volts a/c coming off the stator will probably pack a pretty decent punch. OK, I might hook up the multimeter for a day while riding to compare the outputs when cold & hot. I'll wait to see if anyone else chips in with a "Don't to that!" post first though. You will want to do it with the bike in the garage, as unless you splice into the stator wires, you will have to unplug the stator from the R/R to test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer kaldek Posted June 6, 2011 Author Member Contributer Share Posted June 6, 2011 Well, talk about resurrecting a dead thread, but I've just gone and ordered a new flywheel. The stator mentioned in the original post died in March 2010, and was replaced with another 2nd-hand OEM 2002 model stator. However it too is now showing the same symptoms as the original stator - low voltage when hot. Sometimes the volts won't rise until 3,500rpm or more, until I get moving and the engine temperature drops. A new (old stock) 2006 flywheel set me back $145 delivered, plus another $50 for a flywheel holder and a flywheel puller. All I have to hope now is that the 2006 model stator I have lying around isn't also cooked. It came off a bike which lunched itself and is spattered with thick black burnt oil deposits. Only time will tell, but at least 2003+ stators are easier and cheaper to find than OEM 2002 stators; Honda won't sell you anything other than the full flywheel/stator upgrade kit!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspanglish Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 Yes, check 1&2, 1&3, 2&3.Careful not to touch them, as 60 volts a/c coming off the stator will probably pack a pretty decent punch. OK, I might hook up the multimeter for a day while riding to compare the outputs when cold & hot. I'll wait to see if anyone else chips in with a "Don't to that!" post first though. <img src='http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' /> You will want to do it with the bike in the garage, as unless you splice into the stator wires, you will have to unplug the stator from the R/R to test. I have always understood that when taking measurements of stator output, you have to disconnect the stator from the R/R... it's not just a matter of it being more comfortable and not having to puncture the wire's isolation material... like Tightwad said, it is a requirement to get proper stator readings. We didn't get the stator recall in Spain either mate and I've had two stators fry on my '03, as has my mates '02... I tried Rick's stator and it fried in record time... I then installed the upgraded OEM stator... I haven't swapped out the flywheel and don't believe it was necessary in my case... the R/R then died in the arse soon afterwards... and the stator to R/R connector fried... I have now soldered the yellow wires and used a screw-down type connector to secure/stop solder breakage from movement... I have Wiremybike.com's new "mofset" R/R (no monitor wire)... and I fixed teh BYC connector in the front subharness (highyl recommend this as it is Honda Montesa's (Official National Spanish Honda Rep) fix to the electrical woes on the VTEC... the typical "I turned my highbeams on and the bike died in the fast lane on the highway" woes... BYC Link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspanglish Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 Well, talk about resurrecting a dead thread, but I've just gone and ordered a new flywheel. The stator mentioned in the original post died in March 2010, and was replaced with another 2nd-hand OEM 2002 model stator. However it too is now showing the same symptoms as the original stator - low voltage when hot. Sometimes the volts won't rise until 3,500rpm or more, until I get moving and the engine temperature drops. A new (old stock) 2006 flywheel set me back $145 delivered, plus another $50 for a flywheel holder and a flywheel puller. All I have to hope now is that the 2006 model stator I have lying around isn't also cooked. It came off a bike which lunched itself and is spattered with thick black burnt oil deposits. Only time will tell, but at least 2003+ stators are easier and cheaper to find than OEM 2002 stators; Honda won't sell you anything other than the full flywheel/stator upgrade kit!!! That's odd... must only be for the 2002 model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer kaldek Posted June 6, 2011 Author Member Contributer Share Posted June 6, 2011 Honda won't sell you anything other than the full flywheel/stator upgrade kit!!! That's odd... must only be for the 2002 model. It is: due to the stator recall on the 2002 model, Honda no longer sell the original size stator, and all the replacements are larger so they must be installed as a combined flywheel/stator package. To replace everything has cost me $200 (new flywheel and tools to replace it). As long as my spare 2006 model stator works, I should be set for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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