Member Contributer jeremy556 Posted March 31, 2007 Member Contributer Share Posted March 31, 2007 Hey Ken, can you see where the black monitor wire from the R/R connector goes to in the wiring harness? A lot of bikes have a problem where the voltage on this wire is way lower than battery voltage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer CRFJOHN Posted April 1, 2007 Member Contributer Share Posted April 1, 2007 It really dosnt matter how much voltage the wire is carrying if the connections loose contact, poor contact=poor conductivity. Any connection in a wire is a potential problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer jeremy556 Posted April 1, 2007 Member Contributer Share Posted April 1, 2007 It really dosnt matter how much voltage the wire is carrying if the connections loose contact, poor contact=poor conductivity. Any connection in a wire is a potential problem. My question is not really related to the other grounding issues. The R/R adjusts its output based on the voltage supplied by the monitor wire coming from the wire harness that is supposed to be the battery voltage. However, on my, and many others' bikes, when the battery is at 13.8v the monitor wire will have <12v sometimes down to 10v with the brights on which causes the R/R to pump out 16+ volts which fries batteries, lights, and everything else. Running a wire from the battery to this monitor wire and disconnecting it from the main harness fixes the issue completely. So, was maybe hoping to find some possible explanation for the voltage drop on the monitor wire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KanadianKen Posted April 1, 2007 Author Share Posted April 1, 2007 Hey Ken, can you see where the black monitor wire from the R/R connector goes to in the wiring harness? A lot of bikes have a problem where the voltage on this wire is way lower than battery voltage. I'll get the harness back out and have a look Jeremy. I'll also try to take as much of the black tape and protective loom off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KanadianKen Posted April 1, 2007 Author Share Posted April 1, 2007 Couple more observations: THe connector that mates with the RR, has several more "sketchy" connections. Close up: If you look carefully, even the white and black wire coming out of the RR Connector is crimped in with the other two power wires. Additionally, I must have found another 8 or 10 similar crimps to join other wires throughout the harness. I didn't see any evidence of corrosion but this harness is from a bike with about 4000 miles on it. I traced a great many of the small gauge green wires from connectors - and they sure seem to me, to be ground circuits for whatever they are connecting to. I'm not an electrical engineer - but I still think that common sense tells me that 11 wires into one ground block - should have more than one wire coming out to complete the circuit.... Honda could save a couple pounds on the bike as well - if they found a way to do away with black tape as well!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veefer800Canuck Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 Egads, I hope I never have trouble with my wiring harness! :o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer jeremy556 Posted April 1, 2007 Member Contributer Share Posted April 1, 2007 Thanks Ken! So the white/black monitor wire is crimped to one of the large positive leads from the R/R, just a few inches from the R/R connector? If I am getting a 6 volt drop from that crimp I would hate to see what it looks like on my bike :joystick: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soichiro Posted April 1, 2007 Share Posted April 1, 2007 Thanks Ken, very interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KanadianKen Posted April 1, 2007 Author Share Posted April 1, 2007 Thanks Ken!So the white/black monitor wire is crimped to one of the large positive leads from the R/R, just a few inches from the R/R connector? If I am getting a 6 volt drop from that crimp I would hate to see what it looks like on my bike :joystick: you are correct Jeremy. Might be a 10 inch lead going from that RR connector over to the bigger Red wire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer thx1139 Posted April 2, 2007 Member Contributer Share Posted April 2, 2007 you are correct Jeremy. Might be a 10 inch lead going from that RR connector over to the bigger Red wire. Before I adapted a new-style R/R to my gen4, I studied some wiring diagrams for Hondas with the sensor wire ('02 VFR, Blackbird 1100xx, RC51-sp2). They showed the monitor wire being connected to the harness downstream of the ignition switch and fuse block. Schematic from the RC51 sp2 manual: Did Honda alter the harness in the later VFRs? :squid: -those crimped splices are scary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtlecreek Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 i have been watching this thread, but until i pulled my 6th gen schematics, i didn't understand how big a mess this is. i cannot fathom any engineering reason to do what they have done, UNLESS they were reusing parts and had to make it 'fit'. why in the world would you take two terminations at the r/r through two large guage wires, then crimp them both together within 6" of the r/r and then use that to feed in through the smaller guage wire on the 30 amp fuse line to charge the system? its almost like an exhaust line! TWO into ONE into tinyone.... thanks ken for taking the time to do this. no issues on my end yet (knock on wood) but this will greatly help me trouble shoot it if (when?) they start.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer thx1139 Posted April 2, 2007 Member Contributer Share Posted April 2, 2007 why in the world would you take two terminations at the r/r through two large guage wires, then crimp them both together within 6" of the r/r I had the impression Honda was addressing fried connector issues seen on the gen4 when they did this. Doubling the terminals on the R/R should halve the resisistance at that connection, as far as theory goes. Also there's the advantage of redundancy, in case of corrosion damage. It would make sense to make the wires heavier where they would be hottest too. Again, melted R/R plugs suggesting thats where the heat/resistance had been most problematic. I thought the monitor wire was plumbed in downstream of the fuse block for a simillar reason; to provide an accurate reading of system volts after any voltage drops occuring from resistance at the ignition switch, fuse block or myriad of connectors in between... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turtlecreek Posted April 2, 2007 Share Posted April 2, 2007 why in the world would you take two terminations at the r/r through two large guage wires, then crimp them both together within 6" of the r/r I had the impression Honda was addressing fried connector issues seen on the gen4 when they did this. Doubling the terminals on the R/R should halve the resisistance at that connection, as far as theory goes. Also there's the advantage of redundancy, in case of corrosion damage. It would make sense to make the wires heavier where they would be hottest too. Again, melted R/R plugs suggesting thats where the heat/resistance had been most problematic. I thought the monitor wire was plumbed in downstream of the fuse block for a simillar reason; to provide an accurate reading of system volts after any voltage drops occuring from resistance at the ignition switch, fuse block or myriad of connectors in between... ok, makes sense for that leg of the journey. now all you have done is push the problem 6" downstream to the place where you bring them back together, or if that is ok, then you push it down to the next smaller wire (which is the 30amp fuse part which is notorious for frying....) i'm not the sharpest apple in the barrel, but i could do better than that.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Chev Posted April 28, 2007 Member Contributer Share Posted April 28, 2007 Excellent work. I think we should start our own recall, and direct everyone that shows up with a new bike here. This could have something to do with surging, R/R, and/or any number of hiding electrical issues. Even figure some way to tag them as repaired/modified. Ken, you might contact Honda about this. Perhaps, link them to this thread. Seems to me a sport touring bike's wiring system should be more robust than this. Honda has a bad track record with the VFR wiring systems, maybe they would like to address this for 08. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 28, 2007 Share Posted April 28, 2007 There has been some question about whether this ground block has been a source of problem. I can tell you that for me, and my 5th gen, it HAS been a problem. I sorted an issue with my electrical a few days ago, posted the solution, and VFRcanuck posted a link to this thread for reference. I think it can be said now that both 5th and 6th gens have a near identical Achilles heel in this section of the harness FWIW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer jeremy556 Posted August 3, 2009 Member Contributer Share Posted August 3, 2009 THis ground block is approximately 24 inches below the lower blue connector. NOt sure where it is on the bike, but its there. On the bike, it is on the left hand side between the frame and throttle body. The first ground block appears to be in front of the frame as it passes to the other side. Had a problem for a year or two now, where when the bike gets around 220 degrees, the ignition starts cutting off. When riding I can feel the loss of power as it cuts off and back on. If I am at a stop light in neutral, the neutral light on the dash flickers for a bit, then the ignition cuts off and the engine dies. This problem existed pre and post wiring recall (I only got a front harness), and with different batteries, so I am pretty sure it is wiring related, and these ground blocks are where I am starting. I have the large one by the throttle bodies apart, it looks good, but I am going to clean it up, add grease, and add an extra ground wire or two of my own to it before I button it up, put the throttle bodies back on, and go after the smaller front ground block. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enzed_viffer Posted August 3, 2009 Share Posted August 3, 2009 Had a problem for a year or two now, where when the bike gets around 220 degrees, the ignition starts cutting off. When riding I can feel the loss of power as it cuts off and back on. I have the same issue on my 2001 (see my thread "What's Wrong WiIddit?"). I spent a lot of time on the UK VFR Club forum, searching through posts about misfires, and in many of them, the ground connector was implicated. I've pulled mine apart - it looked fine, but I cleaned it, spread the legs on the cap to try and make the contact better, and added a wire to go from there to the frame. Made no real difference, but apparently that's quite common. The next step is to remove the connector, solder the pairs of wires, and add a couple of extra wires from there to the frame, especially for the ground wire for the ECU. One of the posters on the UK forum made a very good point: he said if you're having any kind of apparent fueling or ignition problems and an EFI bike, you can almost guarantee that somewhere there's a bad electrical connection, on a sensor or other component of the system. Only very rarely will there actually be a fault in the ECU, EFI or any other component. I have the large one by the throttle bodies apart, it looks good, but I am going to clean it up, add grease, and add an extra ground wire or two of my own to it before I button it up, put the throttle bodies back on, and go after the smaller front ground block. It's insane how small a gauge much of the wiring on bikes (and cars too, for that matter) actually is, and how many plugs there are in the system. On my VFR750, I gained more than half a volt, just by cutting out all the wiring from the stator through to the R/R and battery, using larger gauge wire, and eliminating ALL plugs and connectors. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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