turtlecreek Posted February 26, 2007 Author Share Posted February 26, 2007 so you have me thinking about my recent shock/fork change job.With my bike in stock condition, I was at 50mm front sag, 35mm rear sag with compression at max. this gives me a +15mm (+ being front lower from even 30/30 sag setting base line)(50mm-35mm) after mods (new springs on front, raised front forks 7mm, raised rear by 15mm (5mm shim) I am at: 30mm front sag, 35mm rear sag. this gives me a new total of +13mm (30mm+7mm-35mm+15mm) or 2mm LESS AGGRESSIVE nose down I guess what I am saying is it seems to me that my geometry is actually LESS aggressive because my SAG was so poor before and that I am not really going way overboard on my raising/lowering. When I do the math I think you are 2mm MORE aggressive (nose-down). Front went up by 20, you brought it back down 7 (now its 13 higher). Then you raised the rear MORE that an equal amount with your 5mm spacer (the ratio is 3 from shock to rear axle) by raising the rear 15mm (while keeping rear sag the same). Does this make sense? doh!! that addition/subtraction thing can really be tricky....yes you are correct, +17mm instead of +15mm or 2mm more aggressive. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer captainchris13 Posted March 6, 2007 Member Contributer Share Posted March 6, 2007 So, has anyone thought of putting a small hole in their forks at the bottom and tapping it for a small drainplug like some bikes have? then i could just attach a brake bleeding pump and suck out the fluid in 5 min with the top caps loose to let air in. i figure that since I have a drain hole and it works so much better than flipping me upside down every i need to drain my fluids, why shouldnt my bike have the same advantage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Chev Posted March 6, 2007 Member Contributer Share Posted March 6, 2007 I think most people don't consider that seriously because it is difficult to measure the fork oil level properly without the forks completely verticle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLO97VFR Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 So, has anyone thought of putting a small hole in their forks at the bottom and tapping it for a small drainplug like some bikes have? then i could just attach a brake bleeding pump and suck out the fluid in 5 min with the top caps loose to let air in. i figure that since I have a drain hole and it works so much better than flipping me upside down every i need to drain my fluids, why shouldnt my bike have the same advantage? My 97 has the drain bolts at the bottom. I just installed new springs and fluid in mine with them off. I had to drill out the bottom allen to get the cartridge out and went too far on one and got into the seat of the copper washer a bit. With no other choice and track day coming I decided to use JB weld around the hole and sealing surface and deal with it another time. Track day Sunday at Buttonwillow we noticed ever so slight speckles of fluid on the front fairing. There was a trace of fork oil on the tube so I figured the JB weld Must not of hold under those extreme out braking manuvers. It was the end of the day and I was finished any ways. Got it back home and took the front wheel off, clipon, loosened the top cap and tried to get the bottom allen off - but stripped again. So I figured I would just take out the drain bolt to let it drain over night and take the fork off tomorrow. When I went to loosen it I thought my ratchet wrench was not work because it didnt rathcet. so I flip it the other way and low and behold ..... the darn drain bolt was never tighten fully and that was the cause of the leak ! Damn I just thought for sure the JB Weld had failed .... I paid so much attention to the caliper, wheel hub and tripple tree, handle bar Torque values and made sure everything was tight. I just forgot the drain bolt on that side .... Now Im not sure how much came out. Only a few ounces of that. I will take the other cap off and measure the good side to the leaky side and top off as needed. The next time though I just plan on draining from the drain bolts into a container and measure how much comes out and reinstall the same amount maybe giving an ounce more for good measures. It will beat taking everything back off again. From bone dry I filled with 412 cc of Honda Pro 5wt oil and didnt care to measure . I think if you have the same cc in both shock to Honda's specs your good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Dutchy Posted March 7, 2007 Member Contributer Share Posted March 7, 2007 A 4th Gen doesnot have a drainbolt like the 3rd Gens. The 4th gen has the extrusion at the bottom where the 3rd Gen has a bolt(hole) as well. This *could* be a good place to tap a hole. Look at the right fork in this picture, at the top you see the extrusion on the left (does this make sense?) The bolts at the bottom that both 3rd and 4th gens (inside the holes the axle slides through) have is not a drain hole but one that holds the internals in place. One can ofcourse loosen these 2 bolts to drain the oil out of the forks. But as it has a copper crush ring, one could be lucky and it will torque/seal up nicely. Unlucky and you'll have to remove the entire bolt to replace the crush ring. Or strip the bolt...... GET A PROPER TORQUE WRENCH (or better get 2; 10 to 50Nm and one 50 to 150Nm) This *could* lead to you having to fiddle around in order to get the bolt back in the hole to line up with the internals and get them to grip (will the internals not just spin/rotate???) Advantage of leaving the forks in the clamps is ofcourse less work and I personally would not feel the difference between EXACTLY 170mm air pocket meassured vertically versus aprox 170mm guestimated with the forks at an angle (Thurn Motorsport confirmed this to me as well and they've been working on Honda's a looong time). And as for exactness, this special "Hokeido Bamboo" measuring stick is not exact either.. :P Whatever you do, it will be an improvement over the old oil that has been there for many years. See how black the oil is in the top picture? The reason I took the forks out is because I could..... I wanted to fettle, fiddle for a few days and my VFR proved to be a nice object to do just that. :thumbsup: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLO97VFR Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 My 97 4th gen as the side lower drain bolts. If its true only the 3rd gen has these then perhaps my have been changed at some point but seems to fit ok. Maybe the only difference is the drain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer jstanwood Posted March 7, 2007 Member Contributer Share Posted March 7, 2007 My 97 4th gen as the side lower drain bolts. If its true only the 3rd gen has these then perhaps my have been changed at some point but see to fit ok. Maybe the only difference is the drain. Actually, 1994's & 95's have bolts where Dutchy shows the bosses. In 1996, Mr. Honda decided not to tap the holes anymore. I forgot where I read it, but there had to be some good reason, like COST. Next time, I'm going to loosen the bottom bolt that holds the cartridge in before removing the forks from the bike. So, order of loosening is (after wheel is out of the way) 1) Bottom cartridge retainer bolts. 2) Top caps. 3) Triple clamp bolts. Only loosen, not remove... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SLO97VFR Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 My 97 4th gen as the side lower drain bolts. If its true only the 3rd gen has these then perhaps my have been changed at some point but see to fit ok. Maybe the only difference is the drain. Actually, 1994's & 95's have bolts where Dutchy shows the bosses. In 1996, Mr. Honda decided not to tap the holes anymore. I forgot where I read it, but there had to be some good reason, like COST. Next time, I'm going to loosen the bottom bolt that holds the cartridge in before removing the forks from the bike. So, order of loosening is (after wheel is out of the way) 1) Bottom cartridge retainer bolts. 2) Top caps. 3) Triple clamp bolts. Only loosen, not remove... Loosing the bolts for the cartridge before you remove the fork sounds like a good idea but after you remove the axle the lower fork tube just spins and I found no good way to hold it. When I have to go back in there I will look for a higher rated allen/tork/bolt to replace the POS weak ones Honda uses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer jstanwood Posted March 7, 2007 Member Contributer Share Posted March 7, 2007 Loosing the bolts for the cartridge before you remove the fork sounds like a good idea but after you remove the axle the lower fork tube just spins and I found no good way to hold it. When I have to go back in there I will look for a higher rated allen/tork/bolt to replace the POS weak ones Honda uses. Good point. I'm digging back in the memory banks for this, but I removed that bolt (with much cursing) with a bench vise clamping the brake caliper mounts. I used a rag in the vise to keep from scratching the finish. You could use the same logic with the forks on the bike by using vise-grips and a rag. I would be careful about twisting the bike right off the stand, though. You may want an Ahhhnold there to help hold the bike steady. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
V4 Rosso Posted March 7, 2007 Share Posted March 7, 2007 Loosing the bolts for the cartridge before you remove the fork sounds like a good idea but after you remove the axle the lower fork tube just spins and I found no good way to hold it. Get some tube or rod the same size as the axle and with a hole at one end that is large enough to take the right size allen key. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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