The Reevu Msx1 Periscopic Helmet

[Guest]

gombos,

this is where one usually steps in and provides some sort of backing for ones statements, if this person is to be taken seriously from now on?

Hello, you there?

links please...

[VFRnGTP]

Is anyone actually going to talk about the helmet that started this thread?

umm....no. :D

Ok....slick looking helmet....backwards and forwards.... :lol:

...now....back to the irregularly scheduled program....

[jstanwood]

Is anyone actually going to talk about the helmet that started this thread?

Why? That's less fun. Most of us are more interested in the 7 or 8 crashes with one helmet, and the seemingly odd ABATE-like statements.

On the other side, jgombos DID post the link to a review (kudos there), which has manufacturer links as well. His initial post and the review was helfpul, and he also asked a question that apparently none of us can answer yet. Some things about the company don't quite add up, either. Italian design, shipped from the UK, and only talk about the design. The review is actually just regurgitated information and speculation from the manufacturer's site. It makes me wonder if it exists yet.

[Guest jgombos]

I want to see these studies. ....and accident avoidance?

There are no such studies that I'm aware of. But I personally don't need to see a study to believe it. I also think the mirrors on my bike add a degree of accident avoidance, and I don't need to see a study to believe it either. I also think my brake light provides accident avoidance, but frankly I've never ready a study that shows it - it just makes sense to me. Studies for those things would only interest me if they counter what I believe without knowing about the study. If there's a study that shows mirrors not to provide accident avoidance, that would be interesting.

Does the helmet warn you that the old fart coming at you is about the make a left turn before he even figures it out at the last minute?

Does it have to, in order to be considered to have an accident avoidance feature?

Um....LINKS.....we need links. I wanna lay a bike down in a controlled manner..... :blink:

You'll have to do your own googling, because I didn't hear about it on the web.

....and looking at the helmet....given the mirroring system integrated into the top of the helmet...that just leaves a big space with less protection, since the helmet doesn't LOOK any larger to account for the mirroring......

Right. It may very well be less protective. My claim is only that it has a feature to avoid getting into accidents - not that it protects more in the event of an accident.

[zubin]

umm....no. :D

Ok....slick looking helmet....backwards and forwards.... :lol:

...now....back to the irregularly scheduled program....

Alright then...carry on!

[Guest jgombos]

I have never heard anything to support that wearing a helmet CAUSES an accident. WTF?

Until someone comes out with a study indicating whether helmets cause or prevent accidents, all we have is intuition. And intuition is all I have because I've not come accross any studies on this.

So here are the factors that come to mind when I think of how helmets might prevent accidents:

• Enhance visibility to other drivers, particularly with graphics and colors that stand out.
  
• Periscopic helmets provide more visual area to the rider.
  

That's all I can come up with for accident prevention/avoidance. To the contrary, here's how a helmet might cause an accident:

• An insect can get trapped in the helmet, particularly bees, and other threatening insects.
  
• The helmet isn't properly fitted, and blocks the riders vision.
  
• Even a properly fitted helmet reduces periferal vision to some extent.
  
• The mere presence of the helmet is a distraction. An earphone might slip, or a rider tries to answer a cellphone call through the helmet.
  
• Visibility is reduced if sun hits the visor and light scatters (particularly scratched or dirty visors), or if the visor fogs up.
  
• Heat causes discomfort, which robs the driver of just a little more concentration.
  
• Riders (rightly) feel more secure in a helmet than without, and are more likely to take risks. To test that, simply take one ride without a helmet, and notice how rapidly your driving style changes. You'll have a tendancy to creep through every intersection, drive under the speed limit, and take other unforeseen precautions. The difference is night and day in the feeling of vulnerability.
  

I could easily go on with that list. It seems like common sense to me that helmets do more to cause accidents than prevent them - and I will believe that until I see a study to the contrary. I'm not sure why you folks would be surprised to hear that helmets would be accident causing.

[Guest]

Until someone comes out with a study indicating whether helmets cause or prevent accidents, all we have is intuition. And intuition is all I have because I've not come accross any studies on this.

So here are the factors that come to mind when I think of how helmets might prevent accidents:

• Enhance visibility to other drivers, particularly with graphics and colors that stand out.
  Good one, as it is commonly those other drivers who cause motorcycle accidents
  
• Periscopic helmets provide more visual area to the rider.
  

That's all I can come up with for accident prevention/avoidance. To the contrary, here's how a helmet might cause an accident:

• An insect can get trapped in the helmet, particularly bees, and other threatening insects.
  Try taking that bee in the eye or mouth.
  
• The helmet isn't properly fitted, and blocks the riders vision.
  Not the fault of the helmet. This would be rider error and could be lumped in with a number of other possible rider errors that may cause an accident.
  
• Even a properly fitted helmet reduces periferal vision to some extent.
  So do those goggle-sunglasses the Harley crowd wears. Besides, the vast majority of dangers come from the direction of travel. A danger that is so far to the side that it is out of my range of vision would most likely be unavoidable or irrelevent.
  
• The mere presence of the helmet is a distraction. An earphone might slip, or a rider tries to answer a cellphone call through the helmet.
  Again, not a function of the helmet. I don't listen to music when I ride. I wear earplugs. And who answers a cell phone while riding and tries to talk through a helmet? I have seen non-helmet wearers smoking cigars, though.
  
• Visibility is reduced if sun hits the visor and light scatters (particularly scratched or dirty visors), or if the visor fogs up.
  Same thing might happen in your car.
  
• Heat causes discomfort, which robs the driver of just a little more concentration.
  So does a stone in the face from not wearing a helmet.
  
• Riders (rightly) feel more secure in a helmet than without, and are more likely to take risks. To test that, simply take one ride without a helmet, and notice how rapidly your driving style changes. You'll have a tendancy to creep through every intersection, drive under the speed limit, and take other unforeseen precautions. The difference is night and day in the feeling of vulnerability.
  Exactly why I wear a helmet. Being a cautious and careful rider is a choice to be made by all motorcyclists, regardless of gear worn.
  

I could easily go on with that list. It seems like common sense to me that helmets do more to cause accidents than prevent them - and I will believe that until I see a study to the contrary. I'm not sure why you folks would be surprised to hear that helmets would be accident causing.

While you are certainly entitled to your opinions, your logic seems more than a little flawed. It sounds more like you have an opinion about helmets for whatever reason and have come up with imaginary, hypothetical scenarios to support it.

[VFRnGTP]

So here are the factors that come to mind when I think of how helmets might prevent accidents:

• Enhance visibility to other drivers, particularly with graphics and colors that stand out.
  
• Periscopic helmets provide more visual area to the rider.
  

I'll agree with your first point here, but only partly with the second. I think that checking your mirrors would accomplish the same task.

• An insect can get trapped in the helmet, particularly bees, and other threatening insects.

Ride with your faceshield down and this wouldn't happen. :P

• The helmet isn't properly fitted, and blocks the riders vision.

I think this is more a problem with the user than with the helmet. It is the user's fault for buying an improperly fitted helment and, likewise, it is the fault of the LBS for not selling the user a properly fitted helmet. I don't know about you, but w/o someone there explaining to me how a helmet shoudl fit, I wouldn't have known. For the users that buy a helmet online w/o first trying it on in a store...you're on your own. IT IS UP TO YOU TO MAKE SURE YOUR HELMET FITS YOU RIGHT. --> PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY

• Even a properly fitted helmet reduces periferal vision to some extent.

Maybe just a leetle....but not so much that I'd say it could cause an accident.

• The mere presence of the helmet is a distraction. An earphone might slip, or a rider tries to answer a cellphone call through the helmet.

Ok...now you're fishing. If an earpiece slips, I'll be concerned w/it when I pull over. Answering a cell phone while riding (if you don't have bluetooth) is just an assinine thing to do.

• Visibility is reduced if sun hits the visor and light scatters (particularly scratched or dirty visors), or if the visor fogs up.

Following this one to it's logical conclusion, car windshileds cause accidents too. :blink: Again....it's up to YOU to get that visor REPLACED, so that it's NOT scratched.

• Heat causes discomfort, which robs the driver of just a little more concentration.

Again...fishing. I posted a poll about rider cold/heat limits. The general concensus was that most riders had no upper limit. IMO, if it's too hot....I won't ride. Again...following this one to it's logical conclusion...an uncomfortable seat causes accidents. A stone in your show causes accidents....Just not logical IMO. Personal responsibility is what it boils down to. KNOW THY RIDING LIMITS.

• Riders (rightly) feel more secure in a helmet than without, and are more likely to take risks. To test that, simply take one ride without a helmet, and notice how rapidly your driving style changes. You'll have a tendancy to creep through every intersection, drive under the speed limit, and take other unforeseen precautions. The difference is night and day in the feeling of vulnerability.

I'm pretty sure you've got that one half-right. Although I *do* feel secure in the knowledge that I ALWAYS have my helmet on when I'm out riding, and PERHAPS it may cause me to be a bit bolder...I'll have to think more about that....I'm also sure that if you're riding w/o a helmet, you're going to be taking it MUCH easier and you won't be doing anything that would even REMOTELY cause you to get into an accident in the first place. After all, if you go down w/o a helmet...and you smack your head....YOU'RE DEAD (in most instances)

I could easily go on with that list. It seems like common sense to me that helmets do more to cause accidents than prevent them - and I will believe that until I see a study to the contrary. I'm not sure why you folks would be surprised to hear that helmets would be accident causing.

So...I'm still not convinced. I think wearing a helmet is a pretty smart thing to do, given the fact that I don't trust any of the other drivers on the road. They're more likely to cause an accident than I (or my helmet) is. It all comes down to experience. following distance. watching your mirrors. and anticipating that anything that can go wrong WILL go wrong. I make sure I have at LEAST *one* out for any given highway riding situation while on the road. If I lose my out, I find the first hole in traffic and get out of there.....

If I'm riding along the backstreets, I take it easy, knowing that some a$$hat may be coming around the corner not paying attention....

just my $0.02....YMMV

...looks like 7krush may have beat me to a few of these points....I'll have to go read his post now.

[chris2992]

I could easily go on with that list. It seems like common sense to me that helmets do more to cause accidents than prevent them - and I will believe that until I see a study to the contrary. I'm not sure why you folks would be surprised to hear that helmets would be accident causing.

Is this a joke. Your reasons for why a helmet would cause an accident are circumstancual, not factual. My helmet has no peripheral vision block, excellent ventilation, lightweight, bla bla bla and it was only $230. Visors can be dirty, but so can windshields, wind screens, sunglasses etc.... All states require that there be some protection on the eyes while riding, so no matter what the scenario is, there has to be something on the eyes that will likely get bugs and dirt on it. If you don't want to wear a helmet, don't, but don't try to rationalize not wearing one as being better.

[Guest jgombos]

The helmet isn't properly fitted, and blocks the riders vision.

Not the fault of the helmet. This would be rider error and could be lumped in with a number of other possible rider errors that may cause an accident.

It doesn't matter; you can't leave human factors out of the equation. If an accident is caused because a stupid human does something foolish with a helmet, and the accident would not have occurred with the same fool in the absense of the helmet, then the helmet is a factor in the accident. Helmets are put on people, and with that comes all the weaknesses of people making compromises with them.

The mere presence of the helmet is a distraction. An earphone might slip, or a rider tries to answer a cellphone call through the helmet.

Again, not a function of the helmet. I don't listen to music when I ride. I wear earplugs. And who answers a cell phone while riding and tries to talk through a helmet? I have seen non-helmet wearers smoking cigars, though.

It's irrelevent whether headphone support is a function of a helmet. Let's say it's not. That still doesn't mean the helmet won't interfere with headphones and cause an accident. In fact, if a helmet is not designed to function to support headphones as you say, then it's even more likely to cause an accident when a rider decides to wear the headphones anyway. You're neglecting the human factor, which isn't practical.

Same thing might happen in your car.

Right, but we aren't comparing cars. We're comparing helmetless riders to those with helmets.

So does a stone in the face from not wearing a helmet.

Good point.. there's one item to add to the list for how a helmet might prevent an accident.

Exactly why I wear a helmet. Being a cautious and careful rider is a choice to be made by all motorcyclists, regardless of gear worn.

This choice is not regardless of the gear, it's made with full knowledge of what gear will be worn. How could it not be? I can't think of a case where a rider makes decisions without knowing what they're wearing. Even the speeds that riders travel at are influenced by their gear. Most helmet venalation systems don't function until you get enough speed.

While you are certainly entitled to your opinions, your logic seems more than a little flawed.

If you see a flaw in my reasoning, try to point it out. So far, you've failed at that.

It sounds more like you have an opinion about helmets for whatever reason and have come up with imaginary, hypothetical scenarios to support it.

Of course you consider the hypothetical scenarios. Just because I don't know anyone who has crashed because of a trapped bee doesn't mean it can't happen. You have to use your head, and think of the possibilities - it's called critical thinking.

[2003_VTEC_Rider]

Until someone comes out with a study indicating whether helmets cause or prevent accidents, all we have is intuition. And intuition is all I have because I've not come accross any studies on this.

There are plenty of studies that will tell you a helmet saves lives. One way or another, it is a device that protects the wearer from head trauma.

What about driving an SUV with a blind spot the size of a small car, or the fact that a semi truck can't see in it's blind spot for almost 10 feet? A properly fitting helmet causes little or no distraction to a rider, and with proper training the rider has better visual coverage than the soccer mom driving her minivan.

So here are the factors that come to mind when I think of how helmets might prevent accidents:

Enhance visibility to other drivers, particularly with graphics and colors that stand out.

Good point, better for people to see you.

Periscopic helmets provide more visual area to the rider.

Sure, marginally it might give you some more area to take a look, but in essence it would make you a lazier rider. It still doesn't look into your blindspot for you. All in all, if you have too much visual input it is harder to concentrate on a single point at a time. Ever try going into an electronics store and try and watch 4 tv's at once?

That's all I can come up with for accident prevention/avoidance. To the contrary, here's how a helmet might cause an accident:

An insect can get trapped in the helmet, particularly bees, and other threatening insects.

Yeah, right. Any worse than some old grandmother that has a bee fly in through the window. and starts swerving and swatting at it. These instances are rare, and personal experience (two weeks ago) when I had a wasp fly into my helmet and start stinging me in my left temple, it was quite easy to get him out of there.

Talk to any Hardley rider that wears a minimal helmet and ask him how many times he has been hit in the face by road debris or insects and I bet he will answer "quite a bit"

To date, I have been hit by road debris 6 times, and have had countless insects cross paths with my helmet. With the road debris, if I would have had on no helmet or even a short style one, I probably would have been knocked out, had a broken nose, or even broken jaw.

The helmet isn't properly fitted, and blocks the riders vision.

To hammer home a point already put forth by other members. If this is the case, you need to get a better fitting helmet.

Even a properly fitted helmet reduces periferal vision to some extent.

It sure does, and you know what, with the simple turn of the head in each direction every few seconds, you will get over this minor bump.

The mere presence of the helmet is a distraction. An earphone might slip, or a rider tries to answer a cellphone call through the helmet.

If you are answering your phone while on your motorcycle without a completely hands free setup, Darwin already has other plans for you. If your earphone slips, you can always get to it after you pull over in a safe spot.

Visibility is reduced if sun hits the visor and light scatters (particularly scratched or dirty visors), or if the visor fogs up.

With 20 years of riding under my belt, I have NEVER had this happen.

Heat causes discomfort, which robs the driver of just a little more concentration.

I just rode recently when the ambient temperature outside was 98 degrees and with the heat index it was 115. The humidity was 98%. Never once, did I think "Hey, this is just soooo hot that I should take off my helmet." As a matter of fact, while riding on the freeway, I had my visor partially cracked but almost all the way down. My head might have been a little sweaty, and I mean a little, but the alternative in the instance of an accident makes that decision a no brainer.

Riders (rightly) feel more secure in a helmet than without, and are more likely to take risks. To test that, simply take one ride without a helmet, and notice how rapidly your driving style changes. You'll have a tendancy to creep through every intersection, drive under the speed limit, and take other unforeseen precautions. The difference is night and day in the feeling of vulnerability.

Maybe for you it does, but not for me. The rational that you should ALWAYS use while on a motorcycle is that every other driver out there thinks you are invisible.

While riding through Ohio last year (no helmet law) I saw three :squid:s going through traffic at around 115 mph with no helmets on. Didn't seem to affect them too much, but I would never drive in traffic like that, and for damned sure not without a helmet on

I could easily go on with that list. It seems like common sense to me that helmets do more to cause accidents than prevent them - and I will believe that until I see a study to the contrary. I'm not sure why you folks would be surprised to hear that helmets would be accident causing.

While I am sure you could easily go on with your "imaginary" list, in essence your logic is flawed. I am betting a ton of guys out there that play hockey or football could say that they could perform better and faster if they didn't have helmets and pads on, but then ask them to go out there and play without the equipment on.

Your view of this sounds like every crappy argument I have ever heard regarding helmet laws and why people should be able to go without them. Unfortunately, your argument and logic just doesn't add up.

Enough of this for me,

Jeff

[jstanwood]

Didn't I warn you that your gear may need to include this?:

[Guest jgombos]

VFRnGTP, you're dissmissing helmet factors because you believe that you personally have mitigated the effects of those side effects through your good knowledge of helmets. I am talking about the accumulation of impairments on a population here. There are enough cumulative factors to have an effect when you look at the population. The problem is that you can't analyze this ego centricly. Everyone tells themselves "oh, that would never happen to me"... "I'm more careful than that" - but it's not all about you.

Small distractions also become significant when you're moving fast. I've been down enough times to know that the difference between escaping a dangerous situation and going down can be very small. I look back at some of the dangers that I've escaped by the skin of my teeth, and any small distraction could have made things go the other way.

[Guest]

I found a summary of findings of the Hurt Report. Just a Google search away. . . http://www.clarity.net/~adam/hurt-report.html

Some of the entries most relevant to this shamefully hijacked thread are:

6. In multiple vehicle accidents, the driver of the other vehicle violated the motorcycle right-of-way and caused the accident in two-thirds of those accidents.

7. The typical motorcycle pre-crash lines-of-sight to the traffic hazard portray no contribution of the limits of peripheral vision; more than three-fourths of all accident hazards are within 45deg of either side of straight ahead.

43. Seventy-three percent of the accident-involved motorcycle riders used no eye protection, and it is likely that the wind on the unprotected eyes contributed in impairment of vision which delayed hazard detection.

44. Approximately 50% of the motorcycle riders in traffic were using safety helmets but only 40% of the accident-involved motorcycle riders were wearing helmets at the time of the accident.

This is a good one:

48. Safety helmet use caused no attenuation of critical traffic sounds, no limitation of precrash visual field, and no fatigue or loss of attention; no element of accident causation was related to helmet use.

51. The increased coverage of the full facial coverage helmet increases protection, and significantly reduces face injuries.

53. Sixty percent of the motorcyclists were not wearing safety helmets at the time of the accident. Of this group, 26% said they did not wear helmets because they were uncomfortable and inconvenient, and 53% simply had no expectation of accident involvement.

[rjstaaf]

VFRnGTP, you're dissmissing helmet factors because you believe that you personally have mitigated the effects of those side effects through your good knowledge of helmets. I am talking about the accumulation of impairments on a population here. There are enough cumulative factors to have an effect when you look at the population. The problem is that you can't analyze this ego centricly. Everyone tells themselves "oh, that would never happen to me"... "I'm more careful than that" - but it's not all about you.

Small distractions also become significant when you're moving fast. I've been down enough times to know that the difference between escaping a dangerous situation and going down can be very small. I look back at some of the dangers that I've escaped by the skin of my teeth, and any small distraction could have made things go the other way.

I would like to see a study that shows how often a helmet contributed to an accident. I believe I am safe in assuming that the numbers are statistically insignificant. On the other hand here is a statistic to chew on, according to the NHTSA a rider wearing a helmet has a 29% better chance of surviving an accident than a rider NOT wearing a helmet.

Obviously you have formed your opinions without actually looking for anything that might contradict them. I would suggest you do a search for NHTSA and helmet use. You will find a wealth of information and statistics that prove we are far better off with helmets than without them.

As to the Reevu, it is a gimmick. It has been around for years and I do not believe it is actually on the market anywhere. I would find it extremely distracting to have that mirror above my field of vision all the time. I also worry about its crash worthiness. What is to stop those mirrors from coming through the inside of the helmet in a crash? Even if there is protection on the inside and outside, that would seem likely it would make it rather heavy. Not worth it in my opinion. If I want to see what is behind me I will use my mirrors.

[Guest jgombos]

There are plenty of studies that will tell you a helmet saves lives. One way or another, it is a device that protects the wearer from head trauma.

....

Your view of this sounds like every crappy argument I have ever heard regarding helmet laws and why people should be able to go without them. Unfortunately, your argument and logic just doesn't add up.

Apparently things aren't "adding up" for you because you haven't been following the thread. You and rjstaaf believe this is a debate about whether a rider is safer overall with a helmet on. No one is debating that. As a survivor of many crashes, I'll be the first to say you're safer with a helmet than without. I've noticed that several folks here are having difficulty seperating the concept of "collision avoidance" from the concept of "impact and abrasion protection once you are already involved in a collision".

BTW- Your making the same mistake VFRnGTP is in assuming that all riders are knowledgable, skilled, and without error.

[HispanicSlammer]

I think you guys may have missed the point, he said cause or prevent accidents - as opposed to injury. We all know helmets can sigificantly reduce the risk of injury in an accident. However can a helmet actually prevent the accident in the first place? That is debatable.

[VFRnGTP]

Hmm....not sure I am saying that all riders are knowledgable, skilled, and without error.....I've been known to make mistakes. I'm quick to put my foot down to catch my bike as she's going over....and there's NO WAY I'd even think about trying to keep up with some folks here in the twisties.....

I think HS is right, though...we got a hair off-topic...sorry Slammer... :D

[sarcasm]

...I guess that jgombos is right, guys. I think that a helmet COULD cause an accident. I mean...what if you were carrying a spare helmet, locked to the ring under the seat, and the strap got caught in the chain or something like that? Better yet, if the strap ripped, and fell off while you were travelling at a high rate of speed, the helmet could cause a nasty accident. Especially if you happen to look away at just the right moment to see it all happening, and then you careen into the guy (or gal, not to discriminate here) in front of you? Nasty Nasty Nasty.

Bad things, helmets....I'm throwing mine out right now.... :blink:

[/sarcasm]

...although, HS....I agree that it *may* be debatable....but how far can the debate possibly go? I still maintain that a poorly-fitted helmet could cause just as much distraction as gear that is also improperly fitted. So, then would the gear also be the cause of the accident if one were to occur?

I think that the important thing here is not so much the helmet being the cause, but more the effect of the cause. The EFFECT of the improperly fitted, fogging, bug-splattered helmet is INATTENTIVENESS. Inattentiveness being proven the be the cause of most accidents....driver distraction? hello?...the EFFECT of that is an accident.

.....aaaaaannnnnndddddd.......DEBATE.

[chris2992]

However can a helmet actually prevent the accident in the first place? That is debatable.

I don't think so. That is kind of like saying that your selection of shoe will cause you to fall. It isn't the shoe, it is your balance in the shoe. The shoe may be heavy, clunky, uncomfortable etc..., but that is why you try on and buy a good light weight comfortable shoe. There are such arguements as spike high heals (boy are they uncomfortable :blink: ), but that has about the same relevance as tieing an anvil on top of your helmet and being suprised that it is heavy. But with this same logic, a shoe can not prevent a fall either, it may help keep your balance longer, but it is still back to the users balance. The user could just fall (single bike crash), or be shoved by a buddy and fall (being hit by a car), the shoe makes no difference, nor does a helmet in a "crash". Moral, a helmet makes no difference in an accident prevention, but I don't want to test post accident head injury with and without helmet.

[Darth Bling]

Helmets generally do not prevent accidents, and in fact they cause accidents. Helmetless riders are less likely to get into an accident - in general.

Ok, let go back to the source of all this debate.

Yes, helmets in general do not prevent accidents.

No, helmets do not in fact cause accidents. (why do I not agree, see the bottom of my post)

Ok, I can actually see how helmetless riders are less likely to have accidents than helmeted riders and here's why: Riders who wear helmets tend to ride farther and put more miles on their machines. Helmetless riders don't go very far and usually stay in town. So yes, since a helmeted rider rides farther and longer than a helmetless rider, the difference in exposure will certainly affect the numbers. But, if keep all things equal, then I don't think you can say a helmetless rider will have less accidents.

Until someone comes out with a study indicating whether helmets cause or prevent accidents, all we have is intuition. And intuition is all I have because I've not come accross any studies on this.

So here are the factors that come to mind when I think of how helmets might prevent accidents:

• Enhance visibility to other drivers, particularly with graphics and colors that stand out.
  
• Periscopic helmets provide more visual area to the rider.
  

That's all I can come up with for accident prevention/avoidance. To the contrary, here's how a helmet might cause an accident:

• An insect can get trapped in the helmet, particularly bees, and other threatening insects.
  
• The helmet isn't properly fitted, and blocks the riders vision.
  
• Even a properly fitted helmet reduces periferal vision to some extent.
  
• The mere presence of the helmet is a distraction. An earphone might slip, or a rider tries to answer a cellphone call through the helmet.
  
• Visibility is reduced if sun hits the visor and light scatters (particularly scratched or dirty visors), or if the visor fogs up.
  
• Heat causes discomfort, which robs the driver of just a little more concentration.
  
• Riders (rightly) feel more secure in a helmet than without, and are more likely to take risks. To test that, simply take one ride without a helmet, and notice how rapidly your driving style changes. You'll have a tendancy to creep through every intersection, drive under the speed limit, and take other unforeseen precautions. The difference is night and day in the feeling of vulnerability.
  

I could easily go on with that list. It seems like common sense to me that helmets do more to cause accidents than prevent them - and I will believe that until I see a study to the contrary. I'm not sure why you folks would be surprised to hear that helmets would be accident causing.

No! You cannot say helmets do not prevent accident and then turn around to say they cause accidents. You're being a hypocrite and heres why I think so.

In your post above, you list 2 reasons why a helmet can prevent accidents and then 7 reasons why they cause accidents. You're list is very bias. <_< You say bees can get trapped in your helmet and cause an accident, but you didn't mention that helmets prevent rocks from jumping up and shattering your teeth. You say helmets cause heat discomfort, but you forget to say helmets prevent wind and sun burns. We already said a non-properly fitted helmet is user error, not the helmet's fault. We can also lump trying to talk on cell phone as user error too. You also say visability is reduced if sunlight hits the visor, well you forgot to say helmets with tinted visors help reduce sun glare and eye fatigue. I think you need to recompile a list that isn't so bias.

[Guest]

...BTW- Your making the same mistake VFRnGTP is in assuming that all riders are knowledgable, skilled, and without error.

All riders like you?

Lets say you were correct in saying not wearing a helmet avoids accidents. You say they are less likely. Sure, but what happens when that less likely crash finally occurs? That one is where the lid would have saved your squishy head...had it been worn.

There are so many holes in your logic and "things you have heard" theres no point in telling you otherwise because you already know everything!

Wear the helmet if you value your brain. Don't wear it and believe you wont crash based on your fantasy theories.

just to recap

The mere presence of the helmet is a distraction. An earphone might slip, or a rider tries to answer a cellphone call through the helmet.

Please sell your VFR to me and take the bus.

Just so we're aren't completely off-topic regarding your Periscopic Helmet. It's not going to help you avoid an accident when the sun is at your back and now, because of the rear view feature, blinding your eyes.

[VFRnGTP]

Just so we're aren't completely off-topic regarding your Periscopic Helmet. It's not going to help you avoid an accident when the sun is at your back and now, because of the rear view feature, blinding your eyes.

:blink: DING! :beer:

I think we now have a winner! :lol:

[Guest]

Until someone comes out with a study indicating whether helmets cause or prevent accidents, all we have is intuition. And intuition is all I have because I've not come accross any studies on this.

Good news! You don't have to rely on intuition anymore. See post #39, item 48.

[jstanwood]

I think we're beyond reasoning with this one. Anyone that has crashed that many times with one helmet may not have reasoning skills anymore. I am sorry for you.

Also, anyone but a pro racer that has crashed that many times (even with a new helmet each time) may need to look into doing another activity they can be successful at. Motorcycling is not for everyone.

I don't mean to be harsh, but we have beaten a dead horse, as well as gotten off topic, myself included. We are preching to the choir, as usual.

jgombos,

From your initial post, it seems you live in Spain. Is that correct? If so, am I wrong in saying you are required to wear a helmet? That would make sense as to why you wear one, even though you think you could avoid an accident by not wearing one. I could also see that the cost of a new helmet after each crash would be prohibitive.

...see, I commented again. I can't help it!!!

[Hobie1dog]

I think it's time to pass out either the Valium or the boxing gloves :beer:

Tyler Durden in Fight Club, :blink: " This conversation is OVER"