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5th Gen Brake Bleed Issue - help please


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11 hours ago, bmart said:

Do they look/measure as different? 

I neglected to open the original replacement package so I didn't spot the shorter pipe. 

 

Lesson learned. Yesterday's pipe is the correct length. 

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  • 2 weeks later...
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Finally got around to installing the new LHS pipe. Re-filled the system and bled the system fully, in line with the Haynes SM and NO LEAKS! Result. One strange aspect was I always thought that you had to squeeze the SMC during the bleeding of the front calliper/rear brake pedal but both the Haynes & Honda SM say just prop it up at 15 deg to horizontal. Anyway, I did all that & re-installed rear brake calliper onto mounts.

 

Rear brake pedal feels nice & solid but there is a lot of play in the front. 

 

QUESTION: Is it just the front 2 bleed valves on the front callipers that need bleeding or is there some way that some air in the rear system, despite the rear brake pedal feeling very good, mean that the front brake lever can be soft and therefore I need to re-bleed the whole rear system again as well? (I appreciate that "front" & "rear" don't adequately describe it as they are linked but hopefully YKWIM).

 

5th Gen, just in case.

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  • 2 weeks later...
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On 5/30/2022 at 7:08 AM, Skids said:

QUESTION: Is it just the front 2 bleed valves on the front callipers that need bleeding or is there some way that some air in the rear system, despite the rear brake pedal feeling very good, mean that the front brake lever can be soft and therefore I need to re-bleed the whole rear system again as well? (I appreciate that "front" & "rear" don't adequately describe it as they are linked but hopefully YKWIM).

 

5th Gen, just in case.

I don't think it's a case of air in the rear brake system affecting the front brake system--it's more that with the Linked Braking System, you've got front brake system plumbing running all the way to the rear brake via the PCV, so you need to bleed the two front brakes, the PCV and the rear brake (forgot which one of the two specifically at the rear brake caliper) in order to bleed the air from the front brake system.

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The front brake lever and associated hydraulics and pistons is completely independent of the rear brake circuit, so softness in the front brake lever is purely a matter of air in that circuit. If conventional bleeding doesn't entirely help, try tying the lever back to the bars overnight keeping the system under pressure. I'm not clear on the physics of this but it sure does firm up the brake feel. 

 

The only way that front lever action transmits to the rear wheel is by the movement of the front left calliper which squeezes the secondary master cylinder. But the SMC is force fed fluid from the rear master only and has no hydraulic connection to the front brake master.

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Thanks Terry, already did that and it worked. 

 

However, it also highlighted another leak, this time from the link pipe from right to left front calipers so same type of joint as the one I had the original issue with. 

 

I decided I can't continue with the HEL pipes as I'll always be wondering if they'll spring another leak whilst riding so I contacted them again and they agreed a full refund. Kudos to HEL CS , very good indeed. 

 

Managed to source a set of Galfer braided hoses from the US and am waiting for some time to remove the HEL ones and replace with the Galfers. I fitted a set of them to my 6th Gen a few years ago and it seemed much more straightforward. 

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Selling leaking brake lines seems like a high risk proposition, at least it would be here in The Litigious States of America. Run over just one kid in a stroller and...

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I ordered HEL lines several years ago after i found out my self-made brake lines were illegal here in Austria - custom for my delink front and rear - they were, are  great. There was an issue as I ordered over the website, the angle of the banjo - x, y or z plane. Their website isn't very clear and of course the wrong one came. I rang them and spoke to the owner who admitted such mistakes happen very often as the website isn't really very accurate. I made some suggestions which he agreed may make it easier and save him money but i don't know if they've updated the site. To his due and even after my offer to pay the shipping, he sent the new one free of charge including  shipping to Europe. 

Their customer service is top!

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You're a better customer than I am...

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Not sure if you're talking to me but they fixed it straight away without moaning or argument. I have no bad feeling towards them because of that and would order from them again.

I don't think that's bad,  shit happens sometimes, and I've experienced a lot worse. You should deal with companies here for an eye opener! That's why I have/need lawyer insurance!

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11 hours ago, bmart said:

Selling leaking brake lines seems like a high risk proposition, at least it would be here in The Litigious States of America. Run over just one kid in a stroller and...

Was that addressed to me? I'm not settling them, I'm returning them to the manufacturer for a full refund. 

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Hardly aimed at you, but at the manufacturer. What if a newbie installed them and went for a ride...terrifying. 

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1 hour ago, bmart said:

Hardly aimed at you, but at the manufacturer. What if a newbie installed them and went for a ride...terrifying. 

My bad @bmart, mis-understood what you meant. :beer:

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Galfer hoses fitted but no time to fill and bleed, that will have to wait a few weeks I think as we're busy next weekend with 2 days of rugby then off on holidays for the following 2 weekends. Much easier to fit than the HEL lines, especially those fixed lines by the headstock plus Galfer cleverly replace the hard lines that cross the fender with braided hoses so there should be no issues there either.

 

The end may finally be in sight! :wheel:

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  • 3 weeks later...
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I messed up the fitting slightly but spotted it before I tightened the banjo bolts. System refilled, speed bleeders fitted and system bled. I've tied the front brake Lever back overnight so will wait and see what happens - this is the point last time where I spotted the leaks. 

 

Also fitted a Skidmarx Cf-look chain guard and hugger. 

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Off on hols on Friday, delayed due to catching the big-C (Covid, not cancer) so not much progress for a while now until we're back. 

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