Where To Begin Looking For Electrical Issues?

[blainerides]

Looks well "burnt". Getting the wiring pigtail out was by far the hardest part. Sending it out tmrw for rewinding.

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Who's doing the re-winding and are they any good? I assume an American is doing the work. Or is it a "core exchange" kind of thing where you get a new part from China, instantly, and they collect yours and rewind later? I was thinking about doing the re-winding thing with my original OEM one, but only if the end result is as good as a new OEM one from Honda. Please share how you locked this company! :)

[30Bones]

Www.customrewind.com

Super fast turnaround. 6 days including shipping there and back. $90 got mine rewound, thicker wire for more output and all new wiring and plugs for both ends.

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Bike runs out good now. I think I have ground issues as my FI light flickered a few times throughout the ride Saturday. I'm tired of wiring issues, but am in too deep now to think about replacing this bike with a larger ST bike like we want eventually

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[30Bones]

Well 15 months and 6000 miles later here I am again. Insult to injury I had to rent a Uhaul to get it home 300 miles Looks like the stator is the culprit again. Wires from the stator appear much thinner than the ones to the rectifier. I haven't tore into it yet, still disgruntled. Having 3 previous owners, the wiring has some issues and I plan address them over the winter to make this solid and give me confidence it won't leave me or the next owner stranded. It may be for sale come spring, but that is a last resort.

Friend I ride with has a 2000, he is the 2nd owner and it's flawless in every way, I want mine to be like this and not worry I will be left stranded......again.

Plan is to install a quality volt meter as well.

If it's the stator again who should I go with? Not http://www.customrewind.com/again that's for sure. Genuine Honda OEM?

If it's the rectifier again who should I go with? Current setup is from http://www.roadstercycle.com/ andI am crossing my fingers it's still good.

Battery is 3 days old and on a tender until needed. It's a typical sealed lead/acid. Should I look into a gel cell unit? Can the battery be relocated or can air somehow get to it to keep it happier? There is NO place for air to circulate where it's at.

Stator wiring

Stator/Rectifier plug

[Knight]

Personally I would stick with the OEM regulator and stator because Honda parts are of extremely high quality. Used parts, say off of a crashed bike that pass testing and visual inspection are fine to use as well. Many owners swear by aftermarket units and say "I've never had a problem with X MOSFET R/R" but by the time they are using that aftermarket hardware, they are meticulous about refreshing the entire system and are monitoring the voltage daily. Thus, they are actually preventing any further problem through diligence but mistakenly credit the parts. I think we open ourselves up for risk via the aftermarket but do not have anything to gain.

Regarding the rewound stator: You mention that it is a thicker gauge wire. Did it get the same number of turns? When first installed did it comply with the high voltage spec (note sure maybe it is 60V at 5,000 RPM?) The number of turns determines the voltage thus my concern that it was running below spec all of this time.

"Wires from the stator appear much thinner than the ones to the rectifier. "

I would think that a wire that is large enough for the bike's current rating would be good. However I could be wrong and maybe there is some issue with the wires requiring the same impedance.

If all the answers for the stator were good, that leaves the question if the stator was actually one of the victims but not the cause. Any events all this time, such as running a long distance on a dead battery? Maybe there is a short that just appeared?

You suspected a ground before. Has the FI been flickering? A bad ground for a long time can cause increased heat from not dissipating the extra energy from the charging system.

[number9]

Not to dispute Knight's points, but simply to offer an anecdote: I got a new stator from Rick's Motorsport Electrics in Hampstead, NH a month or so ago. Looked to be of high quality, and it fixed my charging issue. I suspect that my previous stator had burned up.

[30Bones]

Personally I would stick with the OEM regulator and stator because Honda parts are of extremely high quality. Used parts, say off of a crashed bike that pass testing and visual inspection are fine to use as well. Many owners swear by aftermarket units and say "I've never had a problem with X MOSFET R/R" but by the time they are using that aftermarket hardware, they are meticulous about refreshing the entire system and are monitoring the voltage daily. Thus, they are actually preventing any further problem through diligence but mistakenly credit the parts. I think we open ourselves up for risk via the aftermarket but do not have anything to gain.

Regarding the rewound stator: You mention that it is a thicker gauge wire. Did it get the same number of turns? When first installed did it comply with the high voltage spec (note sure maybe it is 60V at 5,000 RPM?) The number of turns determines the voltage thus my concern that it was running below spec all of this time.

"Wires from the stator appear much thinner than the ones to the rectifier. "

I would think that a wire that is large enough for the bike's current rating would be good. However I could be wrong and maybe there is some issue with the wires requiring the same impedance.

If all the answers for the stator were good, that leaves the question if the stator was actually one of the victims but not the cause. Any events all this time, such as running a long distance on a dead battery? Maybe there is a short that just appeared?

You suspected a ground before. Has the FI been flickering? A bad ground for a long time can cause increased heat from not dissipating the extra energy from the charging system.

If OEM was so good then why are almost all OEM rectifiers replaced either by recall or failure? I will never own another Honda OEM rectifier on a VFR I own

Absolutely zero issues since last summer when all 3 items were replaced. no blinking FI light like I had before this all took a crap last year

Not to dispute Knight's points, but simply to offer an anecdote: I got a new stator from Rick's Motorsport Electrics in Hampstead, NH a month or so ago. Looked to be of high quality, and it fixed my charging issue. I suspect that my previous stator had burned up.

I suspect that the stator burned up twice and I am not rewinding it again even if it was possible. If needed, and I assume it is, I will replace my stator with a new one. Which company is up in the air at this point. Phones aren't being answered at customrewind today

[wagzhp]

Your problem, at least as I see it based on the photos, is the lame assed stock stator to R/R connector. That thing is a known weak point, and should be replaced by a high quality connector or removed and replaced with crimped or soldered connections.

What your photo shows is that the connector failed and more than likely took out either the stator, R/R, battery, or all three. I suspect that your rewound stator (and R/R and battery) would have been fine if that connector hadn't failed. If you insist on keeping the stock stator to R/R connector you will have to inspect it regularly and keep it clean, adjusted to provide a solid connection, and protected with Oxguard or a similar product.

Another highly recommended addition is a voltage meter that is readily visible while riding the bike, and looking at it at least once on every ride to make sure the voltage is in the recommended 13.5 to 14.3 range at anything above 2k RPM.

And now here's the ugly truth: Most stators seem to last about 40 to 60 thousand miles. That's just the average, some die sooner, others last a little longer. The way to change that is to reduce the load (and temperature) on the stator. The only way that I currently know to do that is to switch to a series R/R. That means installing a Compufire or SH775. Neither is really designed for the output that the VFR is capable of producing at max RPM, so there are reports of over voltages and failures on our bikes that regularly see high RPMs. If you don't take the RPMs above 10k either should work fine.

The real fix is likely in the not yet produced 50 amp Shindengen Series R/R. Hopefully that unit will handle the output that our bikes produce, and will keep the stator cool enough to last 100k miles. But, only time will tell...

[30Bones]

That connection is less than a year old, it's not a stock piece. It had a volt meter, but it failed on me last year as well. See a trend? I do not ride this bike hard, don't rev it to the moon either. Heck I hardly ever ride it except for my annual week trip, occasional weekend away with the wife or very random commute to work. After this weekend, It will be lucky to get ridden by yours truly again. I am almost crazy enough to buy another 5th or 6th gen (that would be #4) and as of now I have only been lucky enough not to have issues on my old 02...but I did not like the Vtec.

Once fixed I will have removed the heated grips and added a fuse system for GPS and a USB port to charge a phone, that's it.

So to fix a 16 year old bike I should wait on parts that don't exist yet? Seems a bit drastic. I don't want a high maintenance bike and there is no reason this can't be rock solid reliable for the 3-5K a year I ride. My best friend has all OEM bits (aside from the rectifier replaced under recall years ago by the PO), same mileage and never one issue....yet. As well as thousands of others.

I think this bike has some issues stemming from 4 owners (including me) and it was in storage for 9 years from something like 2002-2011. Maybe I got a lemon and am a bit bitter now. Give me some time and the right parts, I hope to make this a bike I want to keep in the stable for a few more years. Crossing my fingers.

[wagzhp]

OK, even though your connector was not a stock one from Honda, it definitely failed. Do "the drill" and see if it was just that connector that failed. If it was just the connector, I'd just replace the burnt wiring and either add a better connector (like a Metri-pack 630) with Oxguard, or remove the connector altogether. If "the drill" reveals a problem with the stator or R/R I'd refer you to the 3rd paragraph below. If you don't spend much time above 10k RPM the SH775 should work very well for you without fear of going over voltage.

I had a stator fail on my bike about 40k miles ago. That same connector was also very crispy and I suspect that contributed to the stator failure. When I replaced the stator (with a Rick's rewind) I removed that connector and replaced it with soldered butt splices covered in heat shrink tubing, and also added a voltmeter. The bike has been rock solid since then. (edit: The previous owner also installed the upgraded Honda R/R and a VFRness with a aux/acc fuse block.)

Since then, I have done a lot of reading, and even though I do go to redline fairly often, If I had known about the SH775 I would have installed one when the stator was replaced. Since I'm getting to the lifetime threshold of my current stator with a shunt type R/R, when this one dies I'll replace it with another from Ricks or a custom rewind unit and the R/R will get swapped with a SH775. The SH775 (or FH020) unit uses a high quality sealed connector right at the R/R, which requires that the stator wires be a little longer to reach the R/R. However, that would eliminate the inferior style connector that Honda uses, while still allowing the testing of the stator or R/R without having to cut the wires like I would have to do now.

[mello dude]

Some points.......

- I beg to differ with Knight on the VFR OEM R/Rs, the fallout percentage is high.

- Agree with @wagzhp --- do not use the OEM style connectors. Use the overkil Metri-pack 630, rated at 47 amps or many guys just solder the stator wires directly together. (I like the Metri-pack, my solder skills suck.)

- R/Rs - I admit - I am a series fan and running the Compufire for now. (I expect that I will have to change it sooner or later) But I know that really series are not ready for prime time (yet) Both the CF and SH775 have seen over voltage issue in the higher rev range. And very recently a member with a new SH775 had the overvoltage problem at high revs.

- I have fixed several local bikes and the only R/R I will use is the FH020AA and wired direct to the battery. It is made by Shindengen and could be considered an OEM part. I have not heard of ONE single failure with this R/R.

- Stators, I prefer to use the stock OEM Honda.

- After you wire the R/R direct to the battery, you dont need the VFRness.

And finally, if the fix it job is half assed, well it doesnt matter what parts your use, you're inviting trouble.

Cheers

[Knight]

Just some things to think about.

If OEM was so good then why are almost all OEM rectifiers replaced either by recall or failure? I will never own another Honda OEM rectifier on a VFR I own

Absolutely zero issues since last summer when all 3 items were replaced. no blinking FI light like I had before this all took a crap last year

Regarding recalls: The manufacturer did its due diligence and replaced the item for free, so I do not think it is fair to criticize them.

About Honda in particular: I bought my 1999 with a bad charging system. My mechanic replaced the R/R with a used one that he had in stock. He recognized the part from the one he had taken off...a Ducati. Of course Italian doesn't bode particularly well as far as quality, but you get this point. These parts are made by electronics manufacturers and distributed across all brands.

Regarding failure: First of all, take every failure in every model bike and eliminate the failures where there was a cascading series of events:

*Eliminate every bike where there was a short, and the battery ran dry, and the system demanded peak current from the stator at some point.

*Now eliminate all decade old bikes who's non-sealed connections are corroded and thus run hotter, adding significant resistance to the entire system. (How many of you have cleaned all of the connections and switches on your bike?)

*Include grounds. As the grounds corrode, the entire system is going to burn hotter all the time as this charging system generates extra energy that it absolutely must dissipate to ground.

* Eliminate any bike that was jump started and connected to a running car.

* How many of you replaced your bulbs with low-power LED's? You just heated the entire charging system up, because it now has to dissipate more of the leftover power than the original design intended.

* How many of you added accessories which taxed the system more, but it seemed okay because the voltage stayed within spec? The maker did not do testing with all of your accessories attached.

*For the stator, eliminate any bike where the oil got particularly nasty, became acidic, and attacked the stator insulation.

* Is there a high output stator? That is extra energy to dissipate, meaning more heat and more component degradation. You cannot just add more output to this permanent magnet charging system unless you have an accessory that uses that power 100% of the time.

*Eliminate all replacements where the parts went 20-30,000 miles, a reasonable age for a high stress automotive part.

Now how many stator and rectifier replacements are left? (I don't know the answer, I am asking.)

Not to dispute Knight's points, but simply to offer an anecdote: I got a new stator from Rick's Motorsport Electrics in Hampstead, NH a month or so ago. Looked to be of high quality, and it fixed my charging issue. I suspect that my previous stator had burned up.

Its totally okay to dispute one opinion. Especially since I may be wrong!

For all of you touting the aftermarket, did you buy your bike new, or get it from someone you know, and has the maintenance been par excellence for its life? Has it never experienced any of the above conditions, but you found yourself replacing stators and regulators frequently anyways? If your answer is yes, and you found a good robust aftermarket part, well that is the answer. I certainly have a suspicion on the answers for the majority of motorcycles though. Motorcycles are ultra sensitive to failure of maintenance and motorcyclists are notorious for buying the bike, riding the heck out of it, and putting in minimal maintenance. So if a failure could have been prevented, all I am saying is, that is not necessarily a "quality" issue.

I suspect that the stator burned up twice and I am not rewinding it again even if it was possible. If needed, and I assume it is, I will replace my stator with a new one. Which company is up in the air at this point. Phones aren't being answered at custom rewind today

Unfortunately, rewinds are notorious unreliable. That is unfortunate. I want to recycle parts, I do not want to throw them in a landfill, and the rewind sounds like a perfect solution. But even if the manufacture is very good at transformers, if they do not know the business well (motorcycles) then they may not consider the conditions the stator is under, and may not apply the correct materials or procedures. I suspect that is the issue we see with the rewinds.

[Cogswell]

Wow - that totally sucks. If it were mine, I would probably test the existing components before replacing them as the problem may just be the connector. Plenty of owners have had the same failure with the OEM stator and R/R. The size of wire from the stator is limited by the number of turns required for it to produce proper output. Wires too large will not allow for sufficient windings and splicing in a larger gauge from the windings introduces another point of failure. A melted connector is a sign of excessive resistance across it. The remedy for that is to ensure good and full contact and as insurance add an anti-oxidant such as Ox-gard or Noalox.

When I replaced my stator I requested additional length wire and used yellow Posi-locks in place of the OEM connector. The Posi-locks were a risk, but I carry 3 spares and figured they're easily replaced in the field. I added some Ox-gard when installing them - after 4,500 miles they run cool to the touch and look perfect.

A meter is a great idea. I have a Datel from Tightwad, but there are tons of options. The round Honda Marine analog gauge looks great - almost OEM.

[30Bones]

I'll read these responses in more detail tmrw when I'm on my PC. The RR I run now is an FH020AA wired directly to the battery with a 30A fuse all from roadster cycle.

Fingers crossed and both items check out I will not use a connection inline like before. Thanks. Either way I need to run new wires from the stator to the RR as they are cooked. 12 gauge plenty?

I had that Datel on a Suzuki Bandit I had years ago. Nice piece. I'll add that one

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[30Bones]

Entire bike is torn down now and I've removed everything previously wired in. It wasn't terrible, but I'd rather do it all myself and know where it all is. Like my heated grip fuse behind the gauge cluster. Not the best location for field repair.

Eastern Beaver or Centec??? Still good choices for a fuse block located under the seat?

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[Cogswell]

I have Tightwad's fuse block with the VFRness - simple but works well. I have my meter wired through the fuse block so it's drawing its reading right off the battery and is switched off with the bike.

Looks like you have a CPU fan on the R/R - I did the same on my 5th gen. I saw a photo a while back though of someone who rigged up another style fan that can sit next to the R/R - called a "blower fan" in the trade. It would be lower profile than positioning it on top and looks like it might move more air over more of the R/R's fins - it would just need the R/R to be oriented so that the fins are parallel with the airflow. Another great use for the fuseblock.

[30Bones]

That fan isn't going back on. My RR on there now is never warm. It was on it when I bought it and I didn't remove it last summer when all this started.

Looked back in this thread and it appears I did use the OEM plug that melted down, so I apologize for claiming it was high quality and not OEM.

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[wagzhp]

If undamaged, your regulator is a known good product. If the stator is also still good, I would recommend you run new 12 gauge wires from the stator to the regulator connector. Splice the new wires in as close to the stator as you can, and do the same at the regulator end. Use butt connectors that are either crimped or soldered, and cover them in heat shrink tubing. That regulator connector on the fh020aa is also a known good product and will serve you well.

The fuse blocks you mentioned are fine. The one I have is much more simple, but does what I need and works well. It's wired with a relay so it's only live when the key is on, and my voltmeter and accessory socket are the only loads connected to it.

It sounds like you are on the right track, and should have your bike in good form very soon. While you are in there working on things, you should inspect, clean, and protect any connectors that can be reached. After 15 years, I'm sure more than one of them could use it. There is a big ground connector in the factory wiring loom, wrapped in electrical tape, right near where your fried connector was. That one has been known to give people grief, too.

[30Bones]

Any other alternatives to the Daytel voltmeter? Found them as cheap as $50 and as high as $70. Seems a bit rich, but I also realize quality costs money.

[mk2davis]

There are lots of cheap Chinese units on ebay.

[ChasingNolan]

I put one of these on my bike last year and have been real happy with it. I got it in green to match the rest of the instrument panel.

http://www.amazon.com/Waterproof-3-50-30-0v-Digital-Voltmeter-Dislpaly/dp/B00R5C8BWU/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1442950123&sr=8-5&keywords=digital+voltmeter+waterproof

It was worth it too since I've been noticing voltage spikes on the last 2-3 rides. As a result I'm replacing my R/R this week to the FH020.

[30Bones]

I ordered a similar cheap volt meter today off amazon.

Wiring is all looking good. Grounds and starter relay were a big plus. Stator and rectifier checked out. Going to ask an electrician neighbor to double check my work before going further. I need to source some high temp 12ga wire and I'll get that taken care of and button it all back up after I fire it up.

I went through the entire bike and sprayed contact cleaner and ox gard on everything I could see and the bike is basically a frame and a motor now.

Question. What is this plug for? I don't recall it being connected to anything.

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[Cogswell]

Does it connect to the R/R output? In the FSM it appears to be used. I don't have my 5th gen apart to look . . .

[30Bones]

Does it connect to the R/R output? In the FSM it appears to be used. I don't have my 5th gen apart to look . . .

Nope , my RR goes to my battery, then to my stator. It's some pretty thick working so I'd assume it's used. Let me do some more research tomorrow when I'm sober

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Stator/Rectifier plug

It appears it wasn't in use before this debacle. I should tape it up rather than leave it bare

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[30Bones]

Anyone know if it's possible to remove Oxford heated grips without damaging them? I always cut old grips off, but want to save these or sell them. Thinking about leaving these off the charging system is my reasoning. Plus I just don't see the benefits of heated grips like I used to. Maybe I just don't ride in cold weather as much anymore

[Knight]

Check this out:

http://advrider.com/index.php?threads/oxford-heated-grips-remove-reinstall.604773/

A google of this query will bring up many other threads as well.