npat Posted May 29, 2012 Share Posted May 29, 2012 I see than many in here have upgraded their front forks with Race Tech's gold valves (either, compression, rebound, or both). I also read this excellent thread on how to do the mod yourself. What I don't see (much of), are impressions after the upgrade (maybe I'm not looking right). Did you like it? Better than the sock setup? Too hard? Too soft? Too bouncy? Did you use the suggested shim-stacks, or other? Softer or harder? For compression, rebound or both? Also, what spring-rate are you using in your revalved forks? The ones suggested by RT for your weight? Softer ones? Harder ones? Anything you think could be helpful to guys like me planing to upgrade... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enzed_viffer Posted May 30, 2012 Share Posted May 30, 2012 Whelp, my forks have been upgraded twice. The first time, I put in Sonic Springs of (their) recommended spring rate for my 180 poondz - 0.95 kg/mm, IIRC. Then I had the forks fettled professionally, with Racetech Gold valves, and shim stacks of the appropriate collection (but (however!) I dunno what the shim stack was - didn't ask). The forks were also tested and machined for concentricity, new seals and bushes fitted, and new Ohlins oil fitted. The result was very compliant, and the steering very precise. The ride was great, however (but!) only at up to 40 mph, or over ~65mph. In between, on less than smooth roads (i.e., many of our highways), my arms got a severe workout. So... Round II. Sent them away again, had Ohlins springs fitted (once again, dunno what rate). The damping was eased somewhat to suit. The ride was now much less complaint and much more compliant, but slightly less precise in the steering. The real improvement came when I had the Elka rear shock fettled to match the front end - then the two ends weren't fighting one another. The spring rate was perfect, but the damping was ... just wrong. No amount of adjustment could get it right. It now has all Ohlins internals, including oil (pure baby lesbian afghani furseal penguin whale oil, of the rarest variety). It is now sensitive and easily adjusted just by winding the preload up/down. Even two-up with luggage, it's still compliant whereas before it was rather abrupt and let me feel every bump. After it was set up, apart from appropriate preload adjustments, the only adjustment I made was a couple of clicks on the compression adjuster. Anyhoo - dunno how/if that will help you. I can tell you that both Racetech and Sonic Springs spring rate calculators are biased towards racetracks (even if you put in 'touring' as the kind of riding you do), and too stiff for real-world roads (well.. those in Aotearoa, at least, which are mainly hobbit tracks...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Knute Posted May 30, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted May 30, 2012 I had my forks redone with RT Gold Valves (compression only), springs, oil, etc, as well as having a F4i rear shock rebuilt and sprung for my weight. I'm not a overly skillful rider, but I like to move along at a fairly decent clip, and for me the upgrades were very noticeable. Can't really put it to words, other than to say I instantly got quicker in the corners, the thing just felt more secured to the road. IIRC, the total package was about $500 bucks. Currently toying with the idea of going a little further on the forks with an F4 fork swap... still undecided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer whiteboyslo Posted May 30, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted May 30, 2012 Worth every penny. At 300lbs in my b-day suit (well, more like 310 right now), I was over-working the stock stuff like crazy. But after years of riding it that way, I had adjusted my riding to it so much that I didn't realize how much it was slowing me up, namely in how much extra time I was giving myself to let the suspension settle from accel to decel and then into braking. Now I can ride the throttle that much longer and harder and brake that much later with confidence because it doesn't un-settle the bike. I had the good fortune of being able to ride the same track immediately before and after the suspension work, so the comparison was an easy one to make. As for daily riding, my only complaint is that it does send a lot more shockwaves up the arms when you find that rough stretch of pavement. It's not a deal-breaker by any means, but much like when you re-do suspension on a car, you're going to feel the road more and that had pros and cons. I know I say this a lot about every mod I do on the bike, but suspension has to be one of the BEST things I ever spent money on and I only wish I had done it sooner. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
npat Posted May 30, 2012 Author Share Posted May 30, 2012 Worth every penny. ... What spring-rates, both front and rear? Also when you revalved the front, did you put the shim stack configurations suggested by RT, or did you use softer / harder ones? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer whiteboyslo Posted May 30, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted May 30, 2012 Worth every penny. ... What spring-rates, both front and rear? Also when you revalved the front, did you put the shim stack configurations suggested by RT, or did you use softer / harder ones? I wanna say 1.1s front, and the rear spring is an Eibach unit sourced from RaceTech that's a linear 300 lb unit (because I still remain optimistic about losing weight, I guess). The rear shock is a stock F4i unit with the necessary bracketry to make it all fit, but NOT re-valved at this time. Can't answer you on shim stack configs. I had a guy do all the work; all I did was source the parts and leave it to him. He's a big believer in RT, though, so I would imagine he followed whatever they suggested. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer majordomo490 Posted May 30, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted May 30, 2012 Gotta agree with enzed. Even though I went with street use for Racetechs at 1.0kgs they are way too stiff for street use. I weigh 220lbs. I would go the next rate down next time. A serious speeds and perfectly smooth pavement they are ok but hop coming out of corners at anything approaching legal speeds. I didn't do anything to the rear shock so maybe that is my problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
npat Posted May 30, 2012 Author Share Posted May 30, 2012 that's a linear 300 lb unit You mean 1300 lbs, don't you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer MBrane Posted May 30, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted May 30, 2012 Gotta agree with enzed. Even though I went with street use for Racetechs at 1.0kgs they are way too stiff for street use. I weigh 220lbs. I would go the next rate down next time. A serious speeds and perfectly smooth pavement they are ok but hop coming out of corners at anything approaching legal speeds. I didn't do anything to the rear shock so maybe that is my problem. Yeah that's a big part of it. I weigh about 210, and have .95s in the front with 7.5 oil stock valving. Feels pretty good to me even over the bumpy stuff though I think it needs less comp, and more rebound. 10 wt oil was a little too stiff overall. Next time I'm in there they're getting a rebuild, and a cartridge kit. Got a 929 with a 1100lb spring out back. Need more spring, and better damping so a Penske 3-way will replace that when I do the front. Gotta do both ends or you're upsetting the balance which can be worse than just leaving it mushy, but even. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
npat Posted May 30, 2012 Author Share Posted May 30, 2012 Got a 929 with a 1100lb spring out back. Need more spring, and better damping so a Penske 3-way will replace that when I do the front. Gotta do both ends or you're u psetting the balance which can be worse than just leaving it mushy, but even. The 1100lb/inch rear seams to be in perfect balance (as per % increment) with the .95 front. You think you still need a stiffer rear? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer MBrane Posted May 30, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted May 30, 2012 Got a 929 with a 1100lb spring out back. Need more spring, and better damping so a Penske 3-way will replace that when I do the front. Gotta do both ends or you're u psetting the balance which can be worse than just leaving it mushy, but even. The 1100lb/inch rear seams to be in perfect balance (as per % increment) with the .95 front. You think you still need a stiffer rear? It is very balanced, but a tad soft still. I'd like to get it to where when the bike is stripped down for the track I'm near min preload with race sag. That way when I put the bags, and touring accessories on it should be ready to commute or tour with minimal adjustment. Right now I'm about 3/4 on the preload adjustment for track sag. Probably have to go to a 1.0 front 1200lb rear setup. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer whiteboyslo Posted May 31, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted May 31, 2012 that's a linear 300 lb unit You mean 1300 lbs, don't you? ..... crap. Uhm, not sure. Will check the box when I get home. It's whatever RT recommends for a 300 lb rider on the VFR. That's what I meant. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
npat Posted May 31, 2012 Author Share Posted May 31, 2012 ..... crap. Uhm, not sure. Will check the box when I get home. It's whatever RT recommends for a 300 lb rider on the VFR. That's what I meant. Mike Oh, ok. That's approx a 1000lbs/inch, then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baileyrock Posted May 31, 2012 Share Posted May 31, 2012 Oh, ok. That's approx a 1000lbs/inch, then. Not even close, a 300 lb rider would need something over 1400 lbs/in to be even close. A 1000 lb spring on a VFR is good for around a 170lb rider. BR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
npat Posted May 31, 2012 Author Share Posted May 31, 2012 Oh, ok. That's approx a 1000lbs/inch, then. Not even close, a 300 lb rider would need something over 1400 lbs/in to be even close. A 1000 lb spring on a VFR is good for around a 170lb rider. BR You 're right! I'm just saying that this (1000lbs/inch for 300lbs rider) is what the RT calculator suggests (which according to most, is totally busted)---whiteboyslo could probably clarify, once he checks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 I see than many in here have upgraded their front forks with Race Tech's gold valves (either, compression, rebound, or both). I also read this excellent thread on how to do the mod yourself. What I don't see (much of), are impressions after the upgrade (maybe I'm not looking right). Did you like it? Better than the sock setup? Too hard? Too soft? Too bouncy? Did you use the suggested shim-stacks, or other? Softer or harder? For compression, rebound or both? Also, what spring-rate are you using in your revalved forks? The ones suggested by RT for your weight? Softer ones? Harder ones? Anything you think could be helpful to guys like me planing to upgrade... I've got a low mile (<20K miles) '01, and as shown in my mod thread here: http://www.vfrdiscus...and-other-mods/, I installed RT gold valves--rebound and compression--using their recommended shim stacks and the stock springs (for my weight, RT actually recommended slightly softer springs than stock, but I opted to stick with the stockers (with the preload all the way off) and haven't regretted it). I (also) differed from RT's recommendation on fork oil, I went with 7wt instead of their suggested 5wt. (As a quick explanation of my choices: FWIW, I do have some past track experience, and I like a relatively soft suspension, especially on the front; I like the extra feel and turn-in it provides and am not bothered if the bike moves around a bit--which it generally doesn't as I'm a fairly smooth when it comes to braking/shifting/steering/throttle inputs. Anyway, when inputting my preferences to RT's calculator, I was always checking the "soft" options, so I opted to go with the (slightly stiffer than spec) stock springs and slightly heavier fork oil (with which I'd already had good experience on other bikes) as a hedge against all those "soft" entries . I also installed a (stock) 929RR shock. The difference is HUGE. The stock compression damping was way too harsh, and the rebound damping was wholly insufficient. The bike was OK for just cruising around, but as soon as I upped the pace, the thing would lose its composure quickly--the bike was unsettled over bumps when cornering, the thing would wallow in side-side transitions, and the tires would scrabble for grip as the chassis just could not properly handle what was being asked of it--it would do it, but I'd really have to stay on top of the thing and anticpate, and correct in advance, what the bike was going to do in response to my steering inputs. With the gold valves the bike immediately felt like it was 75 pounds lighter; no exaggeration. The f'in thing is flat out awesome. Just cruising around, the bike handles road bumps/irregularities so much better, and when dialing up the pace, I swear the VFR steers lighter than my 600RR (although, I just revalved the USD forks with gold valves, so we'll see); the suspension is amazingly compliant, and/but the bike is impeccably composed at all times, and the tires aren't working anywhere nearly as hard--even at a pace beyond what the bike could reasonably manage previously. Don't get me wrong, it's still a (hefty) VFR, not a 600 supersport, so for ultimate sport riding, my RR is, needless to say, considerably superior, but, that said, the VFR positively rails. I may not beat myself on my RR, but the VFR can certainly whomp plenty of 600 riders out there--and in far more comfort, to boot. Which is all to say, the RT gold valves were/are worth every penny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer 2thdr Posted June 20, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted June 20, 2012 South, what is your body weight? BTW thanks for the review... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enzed_viffer Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 Oh, ok. That's approx a 1000lbs/inch, then. Not even close, a 300 lb rider would need something over 1400 lbs/in to be even close. A 1000 lb spring on a VFR is good for around a 170lb rider. BR *snortl* Dunno what my Elka spring is supposed to be, but Kiwi Suspension Specialists measured it, and it was (IIRC) 890 lbs (or was it 800?) KSS's guru (Robert Taylor) said it was perfect for my weight and riding style, and so it has proved to be, once the Elka was Ohlinised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted June 20, 2012 Share Posted June 20, 2012 South, what is your body weight? BTW thanks for the review... Hey, you're welcome. 5' 10" and 145 lbs. RT shim stack recipe "C30" (the softest of 10) for compression damping and rebound "R18". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baileyrock Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 Oh, ok. That's approx a 1000lbs/inch, then. Not even close, a 300 lb rider would need something over 1400 lbs/in to be even close. A 1000 lb spring on a VFR is good for around a 170lb rider. BR *snortl* Dunno what my Elka spring is supposed to be, but Kiwi Suspension Specialists measured it, and it was (IIRC) 890 lbs (or was it 800?) KSS's guru (Robert Taylor) said it was perfect for my weight and riding style, and so it has proved to be, once the Elka was Ohlinised. Yeah, I know we had this conversation once before! But IMO your spring rate is Way Too low for a 180lb rider on a 5th gen. No doubt it is a Huge improvement even undersprung! Maybe because your upside down under! If we were in the same country I would be willing to bet your sag numbers (Free/Rider) are not right! BR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baileyrock Posted June 21, 2012 Share Posted June 21, 2012 I had Phil at Aftershocks build my forks 5-6 years ago. He did different shim stack and maybe modded the valves and installed .95 springs. This alone didn't feel that great other than not diving as hard under braking. It didn't start working right until I changed the rear to match as the undersprung rear was getting way to much weight transfer. See: http://www.vfrdiscus...ransformed-wow/ I weight 190 and run .95 front and 20 kg rear with almost ideal Free and Rider sag numbers (per Ohlins). BR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
npat Posted June 22, 2012 Author Share Posted June 22, 2012 I had Phil at Aftershocks build my forks 5-6 years ago. He did different shim stack and maybe modded the valves and installed .95 springs. This alone didn't feel that great other than not diving as hard under braking. It didn't start working right until I changed the rear to match as the undersprung rear was getting way to much weight transfer. See: http://www.vfrdiscus...ransformed-wow/ I weight 190 and run .95 front and 20 kg rear with almost ideal Free and Rider sag numbers (per Ohlins). BR I just received the ohlins ΗΟ605 (hydraulic preload, compression & rebound adjustable) I had ordered. It came with a 170N/mm spring, and based on your experience I also bought a replacement 190N/mm spring---possibly a bit soft for my 220lbs, but I'm a little hesitant to put a stiffer spring (may this will give you the oportunity for an "I told you so", but still...). Looking at the shock, I see that, due to the hydraulic adjuster, there is almost no room to mechanically descrease the MINIMUM preload (maybe 1mm, no more). The installation manual says something about a 13mm preload (I GUESS this is the preload figure with the hydraulic adjuster at the minimum setting). Is it possible that with the 190N/mm spring, the MINIMUM preload will be too much? I guess I'll have to test and see, but I tought I'd ask if someone has some experience with the same shock (or if someone knows what preload figure gives a more-or-less correct static sag with a 190N/mm spring). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer CornerCarver Posted June 22, 2012 Member Contributer Share Posted June 22, 2012 I installed RT gold valves for my front and added in F3 internals. I ported the F3 compression valves to match the specs from RT gold valves and installed the number 33 shim stack as recommended. This shim stack has several more shims of a lighter gauge than stock. I don't remember if i am running .95 or 1.0 spring rates as i was 225 when I upgrade the front and am 205 now. WIth the larger ports in the compression and rebound valves and softer (f thicker) shim stack I am running either 0 wt or 2.5 wt oil in the front. Coupled with my rear shock upgrade i love the feel from the front. I compare it to my M3 with the Dinan suspension, it is more firm and you will notice the bumps but it provides real feedback now and you can feel what the tires are doing at the contact patch. If you have not yet upgraded, ride a few miles of your favorite roads and take note of what you feel at each end of the bike and the speeds that you are comfortable at when enering or exiting notable turns. THen ride the same area post upgrade and quantify for yourself the imporvements. To me, before you upgrade an exhaust or purchase a power commander (about the only things available to make more power on a VFR) you should do the suspension to whatever level your budget allows BOTH ends to be upgraded. My 2001 (my sons now) is easily 8-10 hp down on my cousins 2000 but in the twisties they don't even feel like the same bikes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
enzed_viffer Posted June 23, 2012 Share Posted June 23, 2012 If we were in the same country I would be willing to bet your sag numbers (Free/Rider) are not right! BR Nup - they were perfect! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baileyrock Posted June 25, 2012 Share Posted June 25, 2012 If we were in the same country I would be willing to bet your sag numbers (Free/Rider) are not right! BR Nup - they were perfect! What were they if you don't mind posting them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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