Suspension Obsession

[Guest]

I've dealt with Jaime and he is a very straight forward guy to deal with..

I agree with BR as I had a case of the dry rotted road attacks coming back from a deployment.

Jaime built a 929 shock for me and its great for aggressive riding and two up especially with the stiffer spring.

I went a different route with the front end and didn't want to have to play with anything like spring rates or valving.

So I bought a hyperpro front end kit for my 95 VFR which came with 15weight oil and progressively wound springs.

They were easy to install and made a world of difference when it comes to front end feel and brake dive.

The front feels firm, precise, well dampened, and soaks up bumps like a fine sports car. Plus I am running my forks a little higher in the triple tree, I am at 41 instead of 39mm.

I am running a PP front and PR2 rear which is wearing well for all of the 2 up riding I do with 2 not so skinny people.

[JamieDaugherty]

Rock on guys, keep the good suspension talk going!

[FHR]

Awww Geeeeez. . . . I had almost made up my mind to take a conservative approach and just replace the stock fork and shock springs with some that are suitable for my 225 lb weight (maybe even Hyperpro rising rate springs) and then Jamie goes and posts this in iamthedruman's thread, "Time to upgrade an original 2002 suspension". Jamie said,

"I think if you did springs only it wouldn't take you long before you wanted more. Springs just support the weight, the valving is where you generate your handling performance. The biggest gains are on the compression direction, that's why replacing just those parts is the way to go. I think if you can afford it, upgrading the valving and the springs would make you the most satisfied with the results."

So my suspension obsession is back near square one! Does anyone know of a reliable suspension shop within 100-150 miles of Reno, Nevada?

I've read the manual and learned how to adjust the fork preload. So now I can set the sag and somewhat balance the front and rear suspension. There has been a lot of snow on the ground the last couple weeks so I haven't been able to ride. In the meantime I've been thinking a lot about the suspension. Yes, obsessing! Oh and, BaileyRock, I think I'll mount my new Michelin PR 2's too. But I should keep in mind the scientific method and only change one variable at a time. Otherwise you can't tell which variable causes which improvement or which problem.

Jamie, I would love to hear your thoughts on the Hyperpro rising rate springs. It seems to me they would complicate all the weight/spring rate/sag/compression/rebound calculations. And Hyperpro's "one size fits all" approach, rather than different spring rates for different weights (although they sell those too), leaves me thinking some folks are going to end up at one end or the other of the rising rate springs' optimum operating range. But at the same time the concept of rising rate springs seems to make sense. But maybe I just like the idea because back in the day a progressive fork spring kit did wonders for my 1983 KTM dirt bike.

Help!!

Is this like holding an AA meeting at a bar?

[JamieDaugherty]

Jamie, I would love to hear your thoughts on the Hyperpro rising rate springs. It seems to me they would complicate all the weight/spring rate/sag/compression/rebound calculations. And Hyperpro's "one size fits all" approach, rather than different spring rates for different weights (although they sell those too), leaves me thinking some folks are going to end up at one end or the other of the rising rate springs' optimum operating range. But at the same time the concept of rising rate springs seems to make sense. But maybe I just like the idea because back in the day a progressive fork spring kit did wonders for my 1983 KTM dirt bike.

There are several problems with progressive rate springs. The overall force at full compression needs to be a certain amount to prevent bottoming. What progressive rate springs do is make the rate light at first and then heavy towards the end to make up for it. What that does is make the springs soft over the small bumps and stiff over the big ones - the worse of both worlds. What this does in practice is that the forks blow right through the first part of the travel and end up running most of the time in the overly-stiff portion. Once again, that it bad in more than one way. It make the forks operate like they are oversprung, and it effectively reduces your fork travel because you end up never using the first portion of travel. All of these are negative impacts on performance.

I think people will claim that progressive rate springs help them only because the stock springs were so far off for their weight. Linear rate springs win out in the performance category every time!

Motocross is a totally different animal. I do a lot of offroad suspension work as well, and I can tell you that street is much easier. With offroad you have a much broader range of suspension velocities to deal with. For some applications a progressive rate spring setup works well. This also applies to damping, as in the case of the position sensitive WP shocks on some newer KTM's. Those are crazy, I'm glad street bikes don't have anything like that.

[FHR]

Jamie, I would love to hear your thoughts on the Hyperpro rising rate springs. It seems to me they would complicate all the weight/spring rate/sag/compression/rebound calculations. And Hyperpro's "one size fits all" approach, rather than different spring rates for different weights (although they sell those too), leaves me thinking some folks are going to end up at one end or the other of the rising rate springs' optimum operating range. But at the same time the concept of rising rate springs seems to make sense. But maybe I just like the idea because back in the day a progressive fork spring kit did wonders for my 1983 KTM dirt bike.

There are several problems with progressive rate springs. The overall force at full compression needs to be a certain amount to prevent bottoming. What progressive rate springs do is make the rate light at first and then heavy towards the end to make up for it. What that does is make the springs soft over the small bumps and stiff over the big ones - the worse of both worlds. What this does in practice is that the forks blow right through the first part of the travel and end up running most of the time in the overly-stiff portion. Once again, that it bad in more than one way. It make the forks operate like they are oversprung, and it effectively reduces your fork travel because you end up never using the first portion of travel. All of these are negative impacts on performance.

I think people will claim that progressive rate springs help them only because the stock springs were so far off for their weight. Linear rate springs win out in the performance category every time!

Motocross is a totally different animal. I do a lot of offroad suspension work as well, and I can tell you that street is much easier. With offroad you have a much broader range of suspension velocities to deal with. For some applications a progressive rate spring setup works well. This also applies to damping, as in the case of the position sensitive WP shocks on some newer KTM's. Those are crazy, I'm glad street bikes don't have anything like that.

Excellent! I get it. Thank you, Jamie.

[Guest]

To add to what Jamie said the kit comes with a certain oil level and weight of fluid to run with each set of springs.

[FHR]

To add to what Jamie said the kit comes with a certain oil level and weight of fluid to run with each set of springs.

Are you referring to the Hyperpro spring kit? Do you mean to say the oil level and weight of fluid will compensate for the problem which Jamie described as ,"What that does is make the springs soft over the small bumps and stiff over the big ones - the worse of both worlds."?

This is like 3D Chess; hard for me to understand. It seems like we would need fast and slow compression and rebound adjustability that changes as the rising rate spring compresses and there is no such animal. Forgive me if it sounds like I've gone from a believer to a cynic. I'm just thinking out loud.

[Knute]

Awww Geeeeez. . . . I had almost made up my mind to take a conservative approach and just replace the stock fork and shock springs with some that are suitable for my 225 lb weight (maybe even Hyperpro rising rate springs) and then Jamie goes and posts this in iamthedruman's thread, "Time to upgrade an original 2002 suspension". Jamie said,

"I think if you did springs only it wouldn't take you long before you wanted more. Springs just support the weight, the valving is where you generate your handling performance. The biggest gains are on the compression direction, that's why replacing just those parts is the way to go. I think if you can afford it, upgrading the valving and the springs would make you the most satisfied with the results."

So my suspension obsession is back near square one! Does anyone know of a reliable suspension shop within 100-150 miles of Reno, Nevada?

I've read the manual and learned how to adjust the fork preload. So now I can set the sag and somewhat balance the front and rear suspension. There has been a lot of snow on the ground the last couple weeks so I haven't been able to ride. In the meantime I've been thinking a lot about the suspension. Yes, obsessing! Oh and, BaileyRock, I think I'll mount my new Michelin PR 2's too. But I should keep in mind the scientific method and only change one variable at a time. Otherwise you can't tell which variable causes which improvement or which problem.

Jamie, I would love to hear your thoughts on the Hyperpro rising rate springs. It seems to me they would complicate all the weight/spring rate/sag/compression/rebound calculations. And Hyperpro's "one size fits all" approach, rather than different spring rates for different weights (although they sell those too), leaves me thinking some folks are going to end up at one end or the other of the rising rate springs' optimum operating range. But at the same time the concept of rising rate springs seems to make sense. But maybe I just like the idea because back in the day a progressive fork spring kit did wonders for my 1983 KTM dirt bike.

Help!!

Is this like holding an AA meeting at a bar?

Hey FHR... it would appear that you and I are in the same boat on the matter, what to do? That was Jamie's reply to my question about just doing springs, or springs and valves. I'm still a little confused as to the best route to go. This is a project I would really like to do by myself, to me it looks doable. I'm looking at using RaceTech springs and valves, just can't decide if I should do both compression and rebound, of just the compression end as Jamie suggests. Trying to research to see what other potential pitfalls I may encounter in my attempt at doing this. I believe I have the skills to do the wrenching, but am unsure about what else I need to be aware of? I really want to try this as a learning experience, but am wondering if this is something I should leave the the experts? Hey Jamie, do you take basket cases if I fail?

[Guest]

http://www.epmperf.com/hyperpro-springs.htm is the best link to show how the springs are setup with a bunch of different rates.

When you compare your stock spring to the hyperpro spring the hyperpro springs are a little longer (1.25" in my case) and are almost twice the material of the original.

The spaces differ in between each coil it isn't a 2 rate spring at all. Plus when you put them in the highly coiled top goes under the spacer/fork cap which controls your fork dive.

Hyperpro does have a one size fits all attitude with their rising rate springs. But with each application they do a lot of R&D for that bike and sent you a front end kit with a certain weight fork oil, tell you

where to set the oil level, and where to start your suspension settings to give you a baseline to adjust from.

[pres589]

I wouldn't change to a stiffer spring without a comparable change in valving to control that spring. Plus these bikes seem under-damped even with the factory spring. If I were light enough (ha) for the factory fork spring to be proper to my weight, I still imagine I would see a benefit to changing the fork valving. The stock rear damper seems fairly soft with no one even on the bike, so...

My plans, and I haven't done anything yet, is for straight-rate springs in the front with Racetech valves, and then tapping Jamie or a similar resource for a rebuilt CBR shock and a proper straight-rate spring out back. I have used progressive-rate springs in an old bike, my GS500e, and they worked okay but it was a compromise based mostly on cost I believe as well as availability. That thing made the VFR's suspension seem rather nice in comparison.

[JamieDaugherty]

It's a concern that I hear a lot: "I want to upgrade my suspension but can only afford to do one end at a time. I've heard that just doing one end without also doing the other is dangerous." My opinion is that's just not true. An improvement is an improvement no matter which way you cut it. The stock fork spring rate already does not match the rear, so upgrading the springs on just one end doesn't really change a situation that already exists. Obviously, you will get the maximum benefit by doing a full upgrade. There are also incremental improvements that can be made as well, each one adding to the overall handling performance of the motorcycle. The only "danger" of doing just one end is that the increased handling ability will make you want to push the bike harder. If you don't keep yourself in check you can overcook the stock end. That's rider descrection and can't really be given an objective weighting.

The first step is always springs. If you are unsure of what to do about the valving I would suggest that you get the correct springs on your bike first. You can always upgrade your suspension further to suit your desires/budget.

[Monk]

It's a concern that I hear a lot: "I want to upgrade my suspension but can only afford to do one end at a time. I've heard that just doing one end without also doing the other is dangerous." My opinion is that's just not true. An improvement is an improvement no matter which way you cut it. The stock fork spring rate already does not match the rear, so upgrading the springs on just one end doesn't really change a situation that already exists. Obviously, you will get the maximum benefit by doing a full upgrade. There are also incremental improvements that can be made as well, each one adding to the overall handling performance of the motorcycle. The only "danger" of doing just one end is that the increased handling ability will make you want to push the bike harder. If you don't keep yourself in check you can overcook the stock end. That's rider descrection and can't really be given an objective weighting.

The first step is always springs. If you are unsure of what to do about the valving I would suggest that you get the correct springs on your bike first. You can always upgrade your suspension further to suit your desires/budget.

Is there a upgrade spring that well go on our stock shocks(6gen).

[Guest]

Here is my take and my experience:

Before the VFR that I picked up last April I rode a 2001 FZ1 for 5 years. It originally had the stock suspension (I was 6'1, 245 at the time) and was WAY soft. Luckily I live 5 miles from Traxxion Dynamics and one of the mechanice there also rode a Gen 1 FZ1, but his was loaded on suspension bits. He let me ride his and compared to mine it was like night and day, literally. So I ended up taking my forks to them and got 1.05 kg springs, new seals, valves and purchasing a Penske twin clicker rear shock with a 625 lb. spring and installing it myself (8981 if I remember right). The bike was competely new and different. Stiffer yes, but also ON RAILS. Best investment you can do.

So now I'm about 222 lbs and in the same boat as the OP with the VFR. The stock suspension is complete crap. Not to mention its now 8, almost 9, years old. Unfortunately I was laid off (yet again) last year and I'm only working PT currently. Hopefully this summer I'll get the VFR into Traxxion for some work as I'm turning 40 and am planning a 2 week trip on the VFR with my brother to parts unknown. Honestly if you plan on keeping a bike, ride often and spirited, suspension upgrades are a no brainer.

[FHR]

Here is my take and my experience:

Before the VFR that I picked up last April I rode a 2001 FZ1 for 5 years. It originally had the stock suspension (I was 6'1, 245 at the time) and was WAY soft. Luckily I live 5 miles from Traxxion Dynamics and one of the mechanice there also rode a Gen 1 FZ1, but his was loaded on suspension bits. He let me ride his and compared to mine it was like night and day, literally. So I ended up taking my forks to them and got 1.05 kg springs, new seals, valves and purchasing a Penske twin clicker rear shock with a 625 lb. spring and installing it myself (8981 if I remember right). The bike was competely new and different. Stiffer yes, but also ON RAILS. Best investment you can do.

So now I'm about 222 lbs and in the same boat as the OP with the VFR. The stock suspension is complete crap. Not to mention its now 8, almost 9, years old. Unfortunately I was laid off (yet again) last year and I'm only working PT currently. Hopefully this summer I'll get the VFR into Traxxion for some work as I'm turning 40 and am planning a 2 week trip on the VFR with my brother to parts unknown. Honestly if you plan on keeping a bike, ride often and spirited, suspension upgrades are a no brainer.

Amen, Brother.

Take a look at Monks thread, "Front forks", he's dialing in and at a reasonable cost.

Hope you get work soon.

[JamieDaugherty]

Is there a upgrade spring that well go on our stock shocks(6gen).

Sure, but you need an adapter to make them fit. It's not a big deal really, I have do make one for just about all of the shocks I setup.

[Monk]

Is there a upgrade spring that well go on our stock shocks(6gen).

Sure, but you need an adapter to make them fit. It's not a big deal really, I have do make one for just about all of the shocks I setup.

When I get the money... can I order the correct rate spring, and adapter from you? And what would be the cost? Thanks.

[JamieDaugherty]

Is there a upgrade spring that well go on our stock shocks(6gen).

Sure, but you need an adapter to make them fit. It's not a big deal really, I have do make one for just about all of the shocks I setup.

When I get the money... can I order the correct rate spring, and adapter from you? And what would be the cost? Thanks.

You'd probably want to send the shock to me - it's not something you can change out yourself. Shoot me a PM and I'll give you a quote. Thanks!

[SereniTTy]

It's a concern that I hear a lot: "I want to upgrade my suspension but can only afford to do one end at a time. I've heard that just doing one end without also doing the other is dangerous." My opinion is that's just not true. An improvement is an improvement no matter which way you cut it. The stock fork spring rate already does not match the rear, so upgrading the springs on just one end doesn't really change a situation that already exists. Obviously, you will get the maximum benefit by doing a full upgrade. There are also incremental improvements that can be made as well, each one adding to the overall handling performance of the motorcycle. The only "danger" of doing just one end is that the increased handling ability will make you want to push the bike harder. If you don't keep yourself in check you can overcook the stock end. That's rider descrection and can't really be given an objective weighting.

The first step is always springs. If you are unsure of what to do about the valving I would suggest that you get the correct springs on your bike first. You can always upgrade your suspension further to suit your desires/budget.

I can vouch for this. I had jamie rebuild an f4i shock for me first, then he did a set of F4i forks. So I had the shock mounted for 1-2 months before I got the forks on. Just replacing the shock with a correctly sprung/valved setup was a world of improvement (I'm about 215#'s). Then when i did the forks/brakes later, that was another nice step up. But just the shock first was a big improvement and nothing felt weird about it.

[Monk]

It's a concern that I hear a lot: "I want to upgrade my suspension but can only afford to do one end at a time. I've heard that just doing one end without also doing the other is dangerous." My opinion is that's just not true. An improvement is an improvement no matter which way you cut it. The stock fork spring rate already does not match the rear, so upgrading the springs on just one end doesn't really change a situation that already exists. Obviously, you will get the maximum benefit by doing a full upgrade. There are also incremental improvements that can be made as well, each one adding to the overall handling performance of the motorcycle. The only "danger" of doing just one end is that the increased handling ability will make you want to push the bike harder. If you don't keep yourself in check you can overcook the stock end. That's rider descrection and can't really be given an objective weighting.

The first step is always springs. If you are unsure of what to do about the valving I would suggest that you get the correct springs on your bike first. You can always upgrade your suspension further to suit your desires/budget.

I can vouch for this. I had jamie rebuild an f4i shock for me first, then he did a set of F4i forks. So I had the shock mounted for 1-2 months before I got the forks on. Just replacing the shock with a correctly sprung/valved setup was a world of improvement (I'm about 215#'s). Then when i did the forks/brakes later, that was another nice step up. But just the shock first was a big improvement and nothing felt weird about it.

I agree with Jamie as well, I just had 1.0 non-progessive Sonic springs installed and fork oil changed to 5-wt.(I'm 255lbs.) it does make enough difference that I'm find my cornering speeds are around 5, 10 mph higher. It feels more plated on wop-de-doos and wash boards while in the turn as well. I did do a small (1/8th) CW turn on my stock rear shocks' dampening adjustment.

I can see that upgrading my shock will be a better move, but just doing the front has been a great help without any adverse effects.

[JamieDaugherty]

I agree with Jamie as well, I just had 1.0 non-progessive Sonic springs installed and fork oil changed to 5-wt.(I'm 255lbs.) it does make enough difference that I'm find my cornering speeds are around 5, 10 mph higher. It feels more plated on wop-de-doos and wash boards while in the turn as well. I did do a small (1/8th) CW turn on my stock rear shocks' dampening adjustment.

I can see that upgrading my shock will be a better move, but just doing the front has been a great help without any adverse effects.

Rock on John, I'm glad to hear that the fork upgrades are working out for you!

[FHR]

I agree with Jamie as well, I just had 1.0 non-progessive Sonic springs installed and fork oil changed to 5-wt.(I'm 255lbs.) it does make enough difference that I'm find my cornering speeds are around 5, 10 mph higher. It feels more plated on wop-de-doos and wash boards while in the turn as well. I did do a small (1/8th) CW turn on my stock rear shocks' dampening adjustment.

I can see that upgrading my shock will be a better move, but just doing the front has been a great help without any adverse effects.

Rock on John, I'm glad to hear that the fork upgrades are working out for you!

Guys, I second that!

Although I know that at a minimum I am going to have to get springs front and rear to match my weight, I haven't made the move yet. So far, I've cranked up the preload a little in the front and back. I'll get a couple friends to help me set the sag more exactly, but I haven't been able to do that yet. I did about 40 miles in a test ride yesterday afternoon. With the adjustments I've made so far, I'm getting more of that ON RAILS feeling around the corners, that Gamecock94 described. That may be similar to the planted felling Monk is talking about. But it also feels like a lot more of the small jolts are coming up through my hands (with numbness resulting) and the rebound clunks are more frequent. Maybe that is just a natural result of going faster (?).Or is it springs with too much preload for their capacity? It seems as though a proper spring rate would require less preload which would then allow a longer travel through the spring's compression stroke. And that should be true front and rear.

I'm hoping to make some suspension changes with the goal being plush yet planted in the washboard type stuff but firm enough to grip and rail around the curves confidently. Yea, I know I want it all! I'd better get busy before the good weather arrives. We had snow showers today! Whether I do it economically in a step by step process or all at once in a spending frenzy, is that a realistic goal? Must there be a compromise at one end of the suspension's shock absorbsion (SP?) or the other? I mean do you only get it plush or firm? In general is it the damping that controls how quickly or slowly the spring compresses? I said "in general" because I know that how fast a spring compresses is also partially a function of the stiffness of the spring. If so, I see damping changes in my future too.

Jamie, what spring rates front and rear would you recommend for a guy 225 lbs who wants to ride fairly aggressively (for his age ) doing canyons, some touring and commuting?

Monk, I'm wondering, did the feel through the bars change with the new stiffer spring rate? Better? Worse?

Thanks

[Monk]

FHR.... I'm not having nor have I had problems with the bars in hand, if anything I'd say that I can feel the road a little more do to the sring not being progressive,but I don't see that as a negitive ( which in your case could just be you're holding the grip too tight....Hands going to sleep).

Remember you want the forks and shock adjusted so you don't top-out, or bottom-out(part of what the sag adjustments all about), Go for roughly setting so 1/3rd of your movement happens at the top, and 2/3rds' at the bottom. That will be accomplished with your pre-loads.

Dampening can only be accomplished on the rear(of our bikes), so after you get the sag adjusted, take an average size straightslot screwdriver and ride to a store front where you can see you and your bike in the store window(mirror). Then you want to watch how your bike flows after you push down on it and release. It should return quickly, but not move afterwards(pogo). If it pogo's after it returns, you need to turn CW 1/4 turn then try it some more. I'd start with turning it in all way in(CW) and backing out 2 turns then 1/4 segments CW.

When you turn it(Dampener)in all the way keep a light touch on it, don't seat the screw hard to the bottom of the adjustment.

[jfviffer]

Hello, and welcome if I haven't mentioned that before!

Yes 225 is over what the stock bikes springs were ideally designed for, but I have to ask What Tires are you running and what pressures?

While the the suspension will be soft for your weight the VFR is more than capable of running a Rapid pace with a 225lb guy and stock suspension IMO, your issues sounds more TIRE related at the moment unless you are really pushing the bike!

Of course the bike will work Better with the proper spring rates and proper damping for those springs and by all means if you have to funds to upgrade the suspension, Do It now! But first slap on a set of Michelin Pilot Powers(or similar), set sag & pressures and you should be able to haul pretty quick AZZ on that thing w/o any lack of grip issues IMO.

BR

Hi BR.! You kindly welcomed me in the official welcome section.

Tires are original stock. I can't remember which brand; but they had about 1900 miles on them when I got the bike a few months ago. Tire pressure was initially an issue but I corrected that and they are now at what is recommended in the specs of the service manual as set by the local Honda dealer service shop. With all respect for your superior knowledge and experience, I'm pretty sure it is not a tire issue. I'm not pushing the bike's limits as far as I know, but I am trying to force myself up to the outer edges of my personal comfort zone. Maybe my limitations are the problem!

Ironically, today my wife emailed me to tell me my set of Michelin Pilot Road 2's were delivered at home. I'm planning to save them until I get more wear on the current tires.

"by all means if you have to funds to upgrade the suspension, Do It now!" Well that is a problem. There are many responsibilities and it is always

Thanks for your insight.

I have to agree with BR.its all about tires first then suspension. If you still have the original OEM tire get rid of them, 06 weren't they those horrible Metzler z4 they were the worst, if they are get you new pr2's on as fast as you can. those tires are not safe if you push those tires you will eventually crash.

[jfviffer]

Hello, and welcome if I haven't mentioned that before!

Yes 225 is over what the stock bikes springs were ideally designed for, but I have to ask What Tires are you running and what pressures?

While the the suspension will be soft for your weight the VFR is more than capable of running a Rapid pace with a 225lb guy and stock suspension IMO, your issues sounds more TIRE related at the moment unless you are really pushing the bike!

Of course the bike will work Better with the proper spring rates and proper damping for those springs and by all means if you have to funds to upgrade the suspension, Do It now! But first slap on a set of Michelin Pilot Powers(or similar), set sag & pressures and you should be able to haul pretty quick AZZ on that thing w/o any lack of grip issues IMO.

BR

Hi BR.! You kindly welcomed me in the official welcome section.

Tires are original stock. I can't remember which brand; but they had about 1900 miles on them when I got the bike a few months ago. Tire pressure was initially an issue but I corrected that and they are now at what is recommended in the specs of the service manual as set by the local Honda dealer service shop. With all respect for your superior knowledge and experience, I'm pretty sure it is not a tire issue. I'm not pushing the bike's limits as far as I know, but I am trying to force myself up to the outer edges of my personal comfort zone. Maybe my limitations are the problem!

Ironically, today my wife emailed me to tell me my set of Michelin Pilot Road 2's were delivered at home. I'm planning to save them until I get more wear on the current tires.

"by all means if you have to funds to upgrade the suspension, Do It now!" Well that is a problem. There are many responsibilities and it is always

Thanks for your insight.

I have to agree with BR.its all about tires first then suspension. If you still have the original OEM tire get rid of them, 06 weren't they those horrible Metzler z4 they were the worst, if they are get you new pr2's on as fast as you can. those tires are not safe if you push those tires you will eventually crash.

[FHR]

I have to agree with BR.its all about tires first then suspension. If you still have the original OEM tire get rid of them, 06 weren't they those horrible Metzler z4 they were the worst, if they are get you new pr2's on as fast as you can. those tires are not safe if you push those tires you will eventually crash.

The OEM tires on my 06 are Bridgestones. I do plan to put the Michelin PR2's on and see what difference that makes. I intend to do that before making any substantial suspension changes. Every time the weather lightens up enough to take the bike to Honda Service. I find myself saying, "Later, I want to ride instead." But I'll get it done. While I'm checking the difference the new tires make (and I believe BR and you, that they will) I'll contemplate my next move with the suspension. Thanks for your input.

P.S. I want to come out firmly against crashing.