superfunkomatic Posted July 10, 2010 Share Posted July 10, 2010 First rule of VFRdiscussion - BusyLittleShop is always right. Second rule of VFRdiscussion - In spite of evidence to the contrary, supported by most, including science, see rule #1. I'm hoping at some point he's able, with all his knowledge, to write posts that exceed 50 characters in width - quite an accomplishment [/end sarcasm] You are :biggrin: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer coderighter Posted July 10, 2010 Member Contributer Share Posted July 10, 2010 Rotella T6 5w-40 Silcone is used as anti foaming additive Again, it meets JASO MA. True but deceptive... according to BlackStone Labs silicone in their test is either dirt or silicone anti foam additive added by the owner or silicone gasket sealer... your 3ppm is unique to your oil... testing another owners Rolella T6 will produce different silicone numbers up to 70ppm... your 3ppm is not representative of an anti foam additive package... if you ask Blackstone I think they will say the 3ppm is most likely dirt... http://www.blackston...con-bugaboo.php That's why I posted an oil test of a virgin sample, from a sealed bottle. 'Virgin' means unused. The owner didn't add anything and there was no gasket sealer since the oil was never near a gasket. You said if I can show proof that Rotella T6 specific has an anti foaming additive then post it up. Well since this was a virgin sample, the silicon got there because the manufacture added it., therefore it's an additive. Silicone helps reduce foaming, I'm calling that a anti foaming additive. Of course, there are more ways to control foaming then silicone, not all of which can be detected with a simple oil test. I'm sure Shell uses several of them since the oil meets the requirements for JASO MA . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer FotoMoto Posted July 10, 2010 Member Contributer Share Posted July 10, 2010 I do. Oh wait,it's warm here 12/52/365. :biggrin: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer BusyLittleShop Posted July 10, 2010 Member Contributer Share Posted July 10, 2010 That's why I posted an oil test of a virgin sample, from a sealed bottle. 'Virgin' means unused. The owner didn't add anything and there was no gasket sealer since the oil was never near a gasket. You said if I can show proof that Rotella T6 specific has an anti foaming additive then post it up. Well since this was a virgin sample, the silicon got there because the manufacture added it., therefore it's an additive. Silicone helps reduce foaming, I'm calling that a anti foaming additive. Of course, there are more ways to control foaming then silicone, not all of which can be detected with a simple oil test. I'm sure Shell uses several of them since the oil meets the requirements for JASO MA . I'm taking this on probably more than you like because I was Specter Oil Analysis monitor in the USAF... I ran my 500 Interceptor oil through the lab and established a history,,, and the lab rats rated silicone ppm as dirt... So do you think 3 parts per million is enough of an additive to do anything??? Do you have more than one Rotella test??? what are your other silicone reading??? for it to be an additive placed by the manufacture the 3ppm would be a constant right??? but I think you'll find that the longer the oil is in use the higher the silicone because it's dirt... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer BusyLittleShop Posted July 10, 2010 Member Contributer Share Posted July 10, 2010 First rule of VFRdiscussion - BusyLittleShop is always right. Negative super... when I'm proven wrong I always say "thanks for pointing that out"... check it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted July 10, 2010 Share Posted July 10, 2010 Alright thanks crew, Rotella t6 year round it is. I don't recomend Rotella because I can not prove it has one key additive... in particular antifoaming additives... which are important due to the high RPMs that can create cavitation and starve bearings from necessary lubrication in the process... Diesels are very low RPM engines... Rotella T6 meets API CJ-4 and SM specs (among others), both of which specify anti-foam control. http://www.api.org/certifications/engineoil/pubs/upload/EngineOilGuide_March2010.pdf http://www.apicj-4.org/performance_specs.html http://www.shell.com/home/Framework?siteId=rotella-en&FC2=/rotella-en/html/iwgen/products/zzz_lhn.html&FC3=/rotella-en/html/iwgen/products/t6_detail.html Go to bed now Larry. - Dad out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer coderighter Posted July 10, 2010 Member Contributer Share Posted July 10, 2010 That's why I posted an oil test of a virgin sample, from a sealed bottle. 'Virgin' means unused. The owner didn't add anything and there was no gasket sealer since the oil was never near a gasket. You said if I can show proof that Rotella T6 specific has an anti foaming additive then post it up. Well since this was a virgin sample, the silicon got there because the manufacture added it., therefore it's an additive. Silicone helps reduce foaming, I'm calling that a anti foaming additive. Of course, there are more ways to control foaming then silicone, not all of which can be detected with a simple oil test. I'm sure Shell uses several of them since the oil meets the requirements for JASO MA . I'm taking this on probably more than you like because I was Specter Oil Analysis monitor in the USAF... I ran my 500 Interceptor oil through the lab and established a history,,, and the lab rats rated silicone ppm as dirt... So do you think 3 parts per million is enough of an additive to do anything??? Do you have more than one Rotella test??? what are your other silicone reading??? for it to be an additive placed by the manufacture the 3ppm would be a constant right??? but I think you'll find that the longer the oil is in use the higher the silicone because it's dirt... Huh, with you're history as a Specter Oil Analysis monitor in the USAF, I'm surprised you didn't catch that the first sample was a virgin sample.... When I worked with the engineering chemical analysis lab on the USS Henry B. Wilson DDG-7, if we found 'silicone' in a sample, we called it 'silicone', not 'dirt'.... 'Dirt' might have silicone in it, but it's not 'silicone'.... Here's five more, three of them have the same amount of 'dirt'.... The other two have a little more 'dirt'.... Weird how they all have acquired the same amount of 'dirt'.... I'll point this out before hand to avoid any more confusion, these are, again, virgin samples.... You're right, 3 PPM is very small..... You said if I can show proof that Rotella T6 specific has an (one) anti foaming additive then post it up.... I did..... You didn't say I had to post proof of a additive with a min. PPM.... The fact that 6 sample show the same number, that's not an accident, it's an additive..... Silicone has / is used it control foaming.... Rotella T6 meets JASO MA specs.... It has the anti foam characteristics required for motorcycle use.... rotella T6 2.PNG rotella T6 3.PNG rotella T6 4.PNG rotella T6 5.PNG rotella T6 6.PNG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer BusyLittleShop Posted July 10, 2010 Member Contributer Share Posted July 10, 2010 Thanks code for digging that up the charts... I caught the virgin sample and now you show a range of 3 to 6 ppm silicone... but stand by while I see if Shell will answer my question if that silicone is really an anti foaming additive or not... fair enough??? Just in... Your request has been received and is being processed. You will receive an update shortly. This email has been automatically generated. Do not reply to this email. Replies to this email will not be read. Regards, SOPUS Products 700 Milam St Houston, Texas 77002 The material in this email may be confidential, privileged and/or protected by copyright. Use of this e-mail should be limited accordingly. If this email has been sent to you in error, please contact us immediately. SOPUS Products is a subsidiary of Shell Oil Company, a wholly-owned member of the Royal Dutch Shell plc Group of Companies Registered Office: 700 Milam St Houston, Texas 77002 US001 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer BusyLittleShop Posted July 10, 2010 Member Contributer Share Posted July 10, 2010 Alright thanks crew, Rotella t6 year round it is. I don't recomend Rotella because I can not prove it has one key additive... in particular antifoaming additives... which are important due to the high RPMs that can create cavitation and starve bearings from necessary lubrication in the process... Diesels are very low RPM engines... Rotella T6 meets API CJ-4 and SM specs (among others), both of which specify anti-foam control. http://www.api.org/c...e_March2010.pdf http://www.apicj-4.o...ance_specs.html http://www.shell.com.../t6_detail.html Go to bed now Larry. - Dad out. Thanks Dad for the Shell link... now I'm off to the fart sack... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
superfunkomatic Posted July 10, 2010 Share Posted July 10, 2010 No, not, negative. I've been on the board long enough to see your posts. I'm pointing out a pattern - you being the constant devil's advocate. This is one of those times where you claim expertise and have, well, none, except maybe anecdotal evidence. Plus, all of you look at the original topic - switching to heavier weight oil - try and post something relevant to the topic. First rule of VFRdiscussion - BusyLittleShop is always right. Negative super... when I'm proven wrong I always say "thanks for pointing that out"... check it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snake Posted July 10, 2010 Share Posted July 10, 2010 well i do know of one person who ran rotella syn in his bike from new.he put over 50,000 miles on the bike with no probs whatsoever so i do belive it does work.if you have any questions about it pm btl68 it was his zrx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer coderighter Posted July 10, 2010 Member Contributer Share Posted July 10, 2010 Thanks code for digging that up the charts... I caught the virgin sample and now you show a range of 3 to 6 ppm silicone... but stand by while I see if Shell will answer my question if that silicone is really an anti foaming additive or not... fair enough??? Just in... Your request has been received and is being processed. You will receive an update shortly. This email has been automatically generated. Do not reply to this email. Replies to this email will not be read. Regards, SOPUS Products 700 Milam St Houston, Texas 77002 The material in this email may be confidential, privileged and/or protected by copyright. Use of this e-mail should be limited accordingly. If this email has been sent to you in error, please contact us immediately. SOPUS Products is a subsidiary of Shell Oil Company, a wholly-owned member of the Royal Dutch Shell plc Group of Companies Registered Office: 700 Milam St Houston, Texas 77002 US001 Fair..... Except you didn't include the body of the email you sent them.... I imagine it went something like this... " Dear fellow petroleum lubrication engineer, The other day I was checking the latest posts on my favorite motorcycle form looking for a debate and I came across a post recomending Rotella T6 for use in a motorcycle.... I saw my opening and responded to the thread that T6 is a diesel oil and do to the low RPMs of a diesel, it has no anti foam additive and should never be used in a motorcycle.... One member responded to the thread and posted 6 virgin oil analists that showed a consistent level of silicone and he believes it shows the presence of a anti foaming additive package... I think it's dirt.... It's also been pointed out that you label the latest version of T6 as meeting JASO MA requirements, I've chosen to dismiss that fact.... So to sum up, they (the thousands on the form that use T6) believe that T6 contains all the additives needed for continued safe use their motorcycle.... I on the other hand, believe T6 is for diesel use only.... Because it contains no anti foam additives, if it is introduced into a motorcycle engine, it will foam up like a gallon of dish washing soap in the city hall water feature. I also believe that JASO MA is either a misprint, or the label on the bottle is missing the small print disclaimer about the lack of anti foam additives... I also believe you oil has dirt in it.... Could you please help end the debate, which side of the topic is correct??? Thanks, " ..... or something very close to that. If you're going to email them, way didn't you just ask for proof there's anti foaming additive? Wasn't that what you wanted in the first place? Wasn't that your main concern in regards to it's use in motorcycles? Face it, it's not about anti foam additives, for you, its about being right about something, anything, without regard to the big picture or the topic at hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer vfrjim2002 Posted July 11, 2010 Member Contributer Share Posted July 11, 2010 Come on Guys, It's an oil thread. And in the summer no less. :laughing6-hehe: Does it really matter all that much? I used RTS long before it became T6 and use it in just about everything I have that rolls (the lawnmower only gets the convention Rotella). I like it. If some guys don't like it, that's cool. I promise not to sneak over to their garages and spike their crankcases with the stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer BusyLittleShop Posted July 11, 2010 Member Contributer Share Posted July 11, 2010 Fair..... Except you didn't include the body of the email you sent them.... What I posted is all I got from Shell... it didn't save nor forward my request... but it short and to the point... I ask them to clear up a question about anti foaming additives for my customers by what ppm do they add to Rotella T6... if they include my question alone with an answer I post the whole mess... after all this ain't about me so please erase Busy Little Shop from your letter... you have no right to speak in my shop's name... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KanadianKen Posted July 11, 2010 Share Posted July 11, 2010 Fair..... Except you didn't include the body of the email you sent them.... What I posted is all I got from Shell... it didn't save nor forward my request... but it short and to the point... I ask them to clear up a question about anti foaming additives for my customers by what ppm do they add to Rotella T6... if they include my question alone with an answer I post the whole mess... after all this ain't about me so please erase Busy Little Shop from your letter... you have no right to speak in my shop's name... Larry - not sure you caught the words that Coderighter typed, note one in particular "IMAGINE": I imagine it went something like this... " Dear fellow petroleum lubrication engineer, I don't believe Coderighter sent ANY letter nor did he sign it with your name. He was sarcastically intimating what he thinks you MIGHT have sent. As usual - an oil thread - arrrrrrgggggggggggh - goes sideways again. Everyone clear out - go ride your bikes and post up some pics of bikini clad damsels, half eaten sandwiches, and shredded edges of tires!!! Thats an order!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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