Member Contributer kaldek Posted April 21, 2010 Member Contributer Share Posted April 21, 2010 Hey folks, My '02 started cutting out all by itself again on the last couple of days. Last time she did this, the main bus B fuse holder was melted and I replaced it all with grunty gauge wire and a strong weatherproof fuse holder. That holder has now begun to melt, and like last time the wires just near it have hardened due to the insulation cooking and hardening around the wire. I've pulled the blue connector - all good. On the right hand side of the bike though the big connectors there are in shit state. Not melted, but ugly - like insects have been crapping in there and all sorts of spooge. Have a look: The bike is hard to start (like the starter is struggling to get amps) and my voltage meter is telling me I'm barely getting 13 volts when the engine is running. Not a good sign, and neither is the fact that the main bus B fuse holder begins to heat up immediately. So, I need your solid advice on what I need to do. I'm going to clean all the connectors up tonight, but if I need monitor wires, new ground wires, etc, it's time to hit me with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DDO-VFR Posted April 21, 2010 Share Posted April 21, 2010 Look no further! Replace all of the sketchy connections with new. You did good to find all this BEFORE you go out on a road trip and get stranded. Corrosion on contact interface, leading to higher resistance, leading to overheating, is not an unusual phenomenon. If you try just cleaning everything up I am convinced you won't go long before you run into a melted housing issue. Once you change all the offending connectors (obviously not just the housings but the contacts (both sides) too), apply some contact lubricant. This will help exclude the oxygen from the mating parts and slow the oxidation process. Good luck Brian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer kaldek Posted April 21, 2010 Author Member Contributer Share Posted April 21, 2010 Well I've cleaned up all the connectors. Now I'm concerned about the fuse block - wiggling the cables around there is making it go from good voltage to bad, and it heats up when it's bad. So, the problem at the moment is at the Fuse B block, but I'll be stuffed why this has happened now? I mean, I replaced the crappy stock one with heavy gauge wire and a weatherproof fuse holder 4 years ago. I didn't have any heat at the connectors near the regulator and no sign of melting or damage anywhere but that darned Fuse B block. I'm going to have to and buy another block tomorrow, there's just nothing else to it. But WHYYYY man, WHYYYYYYYY!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer kaldek Posted April 21, 2010 Author Member Contributer Share Posted April 21, 2010 OK I've been thinking about this for a bit while I watched some TV... The stator generates AC power which goes to the regulator. The regulator converts that to DC and shunts it directly off to the battery via Fuse block B. Now for quite some time when my bike is hot, I don't get a good charge voltage at low rpms. I was thinking it's been the stator for a while, but it just could well have been that darned Fuse block getting worse, and worse...and, well, worse. And now it's gotten to the point where it gets so bad it clicks out on me. It explains the low voltage, the engine cutting out, etc. It's obviously not over-amping on me, because if that was the case the fuse would blow. I'm baffled as to why this thing just keeps degrading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Auspanglish Posted April 21, 2010 Share Posted April 21, 2010 OK I've been thinking about this for a bit while I watched some TV... The stator generates AC power which goes to the regulator. The regulator converts that to DC and shunts it directly off to the battery via Fuse block B. Now for quite some time when my bike is hot, I don't get a good charge voltage at low rpms. I was thinking it's been the stator for a while, but it just could well have been that darned Fuse block getting worse, and worse...and, well, worse. And now it's gotten to the point where it gets so bad it clicks out on me. It explains the low voltage, the engine cutting out, etc. It's obviously not over-amping on me, because if that was the case the fuse would blow. I'm baffled as to why this thing just keeps degrading. Where does your bike spend its nights?? What's the humidity like there? Melbourne can be quite damp and wet can't it? although I believe these last few years you've had more drought-like conditions, right? You say the other connectors around the bike are OK?? Did you sacrifice several species of small fury all gathered together in a cave and grooving with a pict?? If not, that would explain it... :beer: :blink: :blink: Replace everything (connectors and fast-ons) and bunking up or running extra ground wires is never overkill... I use a special H2O out spray for electrical applications on my connectors (well, the bike's connectors... :cool: ) I would hazard to guess that the connectors aren't frying because the wries are cooking themselves, but the other way around... the wires are cooking 'cause the connectors are creating resistence due to that corrosion, insect-muck-looking shite you can see in the photos... that's the oddest looking crud I've seen in a connector... Wouldn't be VB residue?? :goofy: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericlw Posted April 21, 2010 Share Posted April 21, 2010 I guess i dont understand the electrical problems. my 02 has 35,000 miles and has never even had the wire harness recall done. I have never had any electrical issues. Do you guys leave your bike out in the rain or somthing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer kaldek Posted April 21, 2010 Author Member Contributer Share Posted April 21, 2010 I guess i dont understand the electrical problems. my 02 has 35,000 miles and has never even had the wire harness recall done. I have never had any electrical issues. Do you guys leave your bike out in the rain or somthing? Yeah, I do. I ride everywhere, every day, and for the last 2 years have had to park on the street at work. She is garaged at home, but she cops the weather everywhere else. Anyway I'm going to replace the main bus B fuse holder tomorrow and see what happens. If it's still shite, it might be time to ask about that wiring recall. And guess where I'm working right now? Honda Australia motorcycles. How fortuitous!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tightwad Posted April 22, 2010 Share Posted April 22, 2010 Ouch...weather takings it's toll....did you solder the replacement Fuse holder the first time? If not no doubt resistance is rising there...and who knows where else. Let me know if you need any other replacement connectors along with the VFRness and I will package them up for you so you can clean it all up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer kaldek Posted April 22, 2010 Author Member Contributer Share Posted April 22, 2010 Ouch...weather takings it's toll....did you solder the replacement Fuse holder the first time? If not no doubt resistance is rising there...and who knows where else. Let me know if you need any other replacement connectors along with the VFRness and I will package them up for you so you can clean it all up! Yeah I soldered in a replacement fuse holder back in 2006 - my solder jobs held up well and did not overheat, but the fuse holder itself was not in good shape: Melted fuse holder Melted fuse I'm just not sure why it suddenly went on me after 4 years - it was a weatherproof holder and under the seat. I can understand the R/R connectors getting messed up, but this one? I had seriously thick wire in use, good solders, etc... I've been for a long ride since I wired in a bodge-job fuse holder of my own creation this morning. Each time I pulled over I felt the fuse and it was warm but not hot. So what happened to the old one? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad Boy Posted April 22, 2010 Share Posted April 22, 2010 I have had the same problem and more. I replaced the fuse holder and eventually most of the electrical system. No problems in last 30k miles. That fuse is connecting the rectifier (power source) to the battery. If the battery is getting old and weak would it draw more current through that fuse to recharge? More current causes more heat. When I was having problems my one year old battery tested by the dealer failed on their test machine. It still started the bike OK. I did not replace it until I fried the second stator. I suspect the bad battery may have contributed to my woes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer kaldek Posted April 22, 2010 Author Member Contributer Share Posted April 22, 2010 I have had the same problem and more. I replaced the fuse holder and eventually most of the electrical system. No problems in last 30k miles. That fuse is connecting the rectifier (power source) to the battery. If the battery is getting old and weak would it draw more current through that fuse to recharge? More current causes more heat. When I was having problems my one year old battery tested by the dealer failed on their test machine. It still started the bike OK. I did not replace it until I fried the second stator. I suspect the bad battery may have contributed to my woes. Hmmmm it's interesting that you say that. I just bought a brand new battery and during my problems yesterday I noticed the battery was not cranking well. It also took an hour to charge up on the charger when I removed it from the bike. This is odd - my old battery which is now six years old does not seem to have any problems whatsoever. But now it's chicken and egg territory. Is my battery flat because my fuse holder was fried or is my fuse holder fried because my battery was faulty? Hmmm! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmythecop Posted April 22, 2010 Share Posted April 22, 2010 next time use a five-year fuse. :biggrin: man, i kill me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer kaldek Posted April 22, 2010 Author Member Contributer Share Posted April 22, 2010 next time use a five-year fuse. :biggrin: Bada-BOOM! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer kaldek Posted April 22, 2010 Author Member Contributer Share Posted April 22, 2010 Well, it's gone from bad to worse. I now appear to have no charging system at all. I had a look at the stator wire (yellow) connector block. At some point in the past it has overheated somewhat and had a bit of melting occur. Not much, but you can tell it overheated. Anyway, the terminals were quite dirty as well, so I cleaned 'em. Nothing major, just some rubbing with a small file, some spray with contact cleaner and reassemble. Result? No charging voltage at all. Bike starts, bike runs, battery voltage sits at 12.3 volts. I've checked the stator resistance and continuity to ground - it's 0.6 ohms everywhere and no continuity, so that's correct. I've checked resistance on all of the stator terminals on each side of the connector block - and it's zero ohms so it's a good connection. The only thing I can think of now is that my regulator has just gone poof - to the point where it doesn't do....anything. Sigh. Advice and prior experiences from the gang are appreciated as always. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Knife Posted April 22, 2010 Member Contributer Share Posted April 22, 2010 I feel your pain. Electrical gremlins seem to be the bane of motorcyclists. Why can't the motorcycle manufacturers provide robust electrical systems? Wouild it be that difficult to do? It's like the systems are designed to last only as long as the warranty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer kaldek Posted April 22, 2010 Author Member Contributer Share Posted April 22, 2010 Alright, I just tested the AC voltage of the stator at idle. The results are, ummm, interesting: 15 volts 12 volts 2.6 volts To me that sounds completely and utterly borked. All I did was clean the terminals man!! Faaark! It's like every time I touch my bike it just goes to SHIT! Maybe she knew I was considering a VFR1200 and came to terms with it back in '09 and just wants to be euthanised? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad Boy Posted April 22, 2010 Share Posted April 22, 2010 Looks like you need a new stator. If you got 120k km out of it you did well. Have a dealer test your battery, it needs to be fully charged to test. Replace if fails. Then now is a good time to have the wiring recall done. I had to replace the fuse holder again after the recall. The only other item on your electrical system is the rectifier. Replace if the charging voltage is off. My stator went out at 40k miles and had two after market stators go out in 7 months, one after the wiring recall. I got desparte and through money at my problem as the dealers couldn't fix it in two attempts. I then replaced the whole electrical system myself with OEM parts, stator, rectifier, and battery. It was cheaper for me to do that than pay a dealer to look at it again. With in 6 months the recall 30 amp fuse holder stated to get hot so I replaced that with heavy duty holder. In the last 30k miles no more problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericlw Posted April 22, 2010 Share Posted April 22, 2010 I feel your pain. Electrical gremlins seem to be the bane of motorcyclists. Why can't the motorcycle manufacturers provide robust electrical systems? Wouild it be that difficult to do? It's like the systems are designed to last only as long as the warranty. well motorcycles are not designed to be left outside 24/7. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Knife Posted April 22, 2010 Member Contributer Share Posted April 22, 2010 I feel your pain. Electrical gremlins seem to be the bane of motorcyclists. Why can't the motorcycle manufacturers provide robust electrical systems? Wouild it be that difficult to do? It's like the systems are designed to last only as long as the warranty. well motorcycles are not designed to be left outside 24/7. Mine never has been, yet I and many others have experienced the same or similar problems with VFR electrical systems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer kaldek Posted April 22, 2010 Author Member Contributer Share Posted April 22, 2010 Guys, I realised I was testing the stator AC voltage while it was connected to the regulator. Is this going to return a bad reading? EDIT: Checked with it disconnected, same problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Serenity_VFR Posted April 22, 2010 Member Contributer Share Posted April 22, 2010 Check your grounds. IMHO 90% of the R/R issue is a bad ground/grounds. The main ground to the frame is often the culprit. Aluminum oxide is very hard to see but it is a decent insulator. Sand the ring connector and the surface of the frame and re-assemble with anti-ox grease. What looks like good metal-to-metal contact often is NOT. And replace any connector, wire, or fuse-holder that even looks a little bit melted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer kaldek Posted April 22, 2010 Author Member Contributer Share Posted April 22, 2010 OK folks, latest update is that I just checked my R/R using the "Diode test" function on my multimeter according to the ElectroSport website diagnostics guide. My multimeter displays readings a bit differently, but all the tests appeared to pass. It's not like I ever had over charging, just under-charging which I had previously thought was the stator anyway. I guess she's gone to pasture. I can now order a new stator or just send the bike in to the shop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad Boy Posted April 23, 2010 Share Posted April 23, 2010 The stator swap is not a hard job if you know the trick. The manual shows removing thottle bodies to route the wire through the crotch of the engine to the R/R. Way too much un-necessary work. The trick I used was to unsnap the plastic plug from the new stator wires and use the old wire to pull the new wire through the bike to the other side, reinstall plug. If you have a Honda mechanic do this, you should save on labor if they do not follow the manual. My local Honda mechanic did not know this trick and when he did a stator swap earlier he spliced and added wire to the R/R so the plug was on the other side of the bike. All the stator wire was wadded up by the stator. A botched up mess, that stator did not last 500 miles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer kaldek Posted April 23, 2010 Author Member Contributer Share Posted April 23, 2010 DAYUM - New stators are $450 Australian! But 2002 models have to buy the complete stator/rotor upgrade kit which is $569! They're only $216 USD for a new one (but they have also been replaced with the upgrade kit), $150 from a wrecker, or $75 from one of our members who is parting out his bike. I will probably buy one from a local wrecker, as well as the one from our member - this gives me two to play with for less than the cost of one new one. What's stupid though is that an R/R is almost the same price here as it is in the USA? Hmm, parts which are known to commonly fail are cheap? I have ordered a new regulator as a safety precaution - at $160 I decided that was acceptable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Serenity_VFR Posted April 23, 2010 Member Contributer Share Posted April 23, 2010 You could always try rewinding your stator yourself. It's not exactly rocket science. Worth a try if you are handy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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