Motad header fitment

[kaldek]

Hey folks,

UPDATE: All problems have been resolved. See the full thread for final results.

I attempted to fit my motad headers yesterday. Fitment itself appeared initially fine (please read below for my continued troubles) and I had no issues getting the whole thing bolted together. However the fitment from my Staintune exhaust to the Motad collector is extremely tight. It is so tight in fact that when I try and slip it on, the force literally pushes the Motad collector off the rear header downpipes.

This made me try tightening the downpipe clamps - but they're made of soft metal and I have now stripped the threads. Great.

Rear downpipes, collector, and Staintune exhaust. My clamps were already stripped by now

The main problem as I see it, is that the motad collector does not bolt to the engine (unlike the stock headers), and that the Staintune exhaust needs to be bolted to the right passenger footpeg bracket. Because it's so tight, something has to give in order to get that darned bolt through the footpeg bracket and into the Staintune exhaust. Guess what gives - the Motad downpipe clamps of course.

For now - while I source new clamps - I have a jack under the collector to stop it from moving while I attempt to wiggle the Staintune exhaust into place. This is not where I wanted to be. :laughing6-hehe:

Have a look at where the Staintune has slipped on - it's on pretty far but does it need to go on further? Maybe I need to heat up the Staintune exhaust so it slips on easier?

Staintune fitment

More staintune fitment

Hmm, looking at these pictures makes me realise I need a block of wood between that jack and the collector too. Sigh...I think by this stage I was just livid.

On the up side, while I had the exhaust off I fitted my replacement ABS shock with remote preload adjustment in about 20 minutes flat. A nice easy job.

[Veefer800Canuck]

You might be able to take your Staintune midpipe to an exhaust shop and have them put it on their bender machine and expand the first 2 inches of the I.D. ever so SLIGHTLY to make your life easier.

And then, before install, swab the inside with some high-temp (red) silicone.

[tinyminds]

I had the same problem with my 98/99 headers. I don't remember what I did but its still not fully fitted up like the stock ones, but there is no air leak which is all I care about.

[kaldek]

I think I've discovered the "root" of the problem. The motad collector pipe where the exhaust would connect to is longer than stock - by about 30 millimetres I think. There are slits in the Staintune exhaust pipe which go basically as far as the pipe is intended to slip onto the collector, and because the motad collector pipe is so long, I can't get the Staintune on properly. This causes stress pretty much everywhere - the force causes the motad headers to slip off the downpipes (as they're designed to seal gases, not take force), and the Staintune exhaust is all wonky because it can't fit onto the collector pipe. Looking at the bike from the rear, you can see that the Staintune exhaust pipe isn't vertical - it's skewed out to the right-hand side of the bike - and where the Staintunes are bolted to the footpeg bracket isn't straight either.

This is highly f***ing annoying. :laughing6-hehe:

I have a couple of options from here I guess:

1. Cut deeper slits in the Staintune exhaust so it can slip further onto the Motad collector pipe

2. Cut the motad collector pipe down shorter so the Staintune can fit onto it.

Ultimately this wouldn't have been a problem for the stock exhaust, because the collector pipe uses a gasket on that system. So, Motad wouldn't have had to worry about tight fitting for the OEM system because the gasket is compressible material.

[kaldek]

OK, I have solved the problem. I used my angle grinder with a grinding wheel, and ground down the Motad collector pipe about 10mm all told. This made for a much better fit, but to make installation easier I also removed my pannier mount brackets, which allowed me to slip the Staintune exhaust on, and use rotation as well as wiggling to get it as far onto the Motad collector pipe as possible.

Check out the Staintune fitment to the Motad header after the grinding. Definitely a much better fit.

Staintune fitment after grinding the collector pipe

I still have gas leaks in the rear header downpipes, but I can fix those with some exhaust gasket cement I purchased today. It does mean disassembling the whole thing once more though. :fing02:

[tinyminds]

Haha glad you got your problem solved for the most part. I should take a look and measure the output on the 98-99 headers in comparison to my stock 6th gen headers and see if the length is different as well. I suppose that could be part of the problem, but it sounds like the motad headers were farther off than the 98-99 headers.

[kaldek]

Huzzah, I fixed the downpipe gas leaks with some exhaust gasket cement.

But then I think to myself, "hey this bike sounds really loud right under the seat. Come to think of it, it's been a bit loud under there for a while...."

Sometime, somewhere, I have cracked my Staintune exhaust. I could easily say I did this last night, but I was only levering the exhaust around while it was UN-bolted. No, this must have happened over the years - and I recall Staintune replacing exhausts which were weak here.

I can lever these holes apart with a small flat head screwdriver, so they're weak as piss alright. Time to go find the closest bloke who can do Stainless welding methinks, or get a replacement part if it's covered at all.

Pop quiz - didn't somebody else say their Staintune exhaust bracket split a few years ago?

[carlitos92]

Pop quiz - didn't somebody else say their Staintune exhaust bracket split a few years ago?

Yeppers:

Linky :fing02:

[kaldek]

Boy am I an impatient bastard.

It's Saturday night here, a welder won't be able to be found/organised until mid next week I reckon. So I said "feck it" and used this awesome stuff:

Exhaust Cement is my hero!

I just smothered this all over the crack, heated it with a hot air gun and fitted it all back on the bike. Bolt it all up, smother some more cement over where the crack is, job done. Nice and quiet exhaust which I can happily ride around with until I fix the problem.

[kaldek]

Pop quiz - didn't somebody else say their Staintune exhaust bracket split a few years ago?

Yeppers:

Linky :fing02:

You da man my friend! I've written to Staintune - since they're local I wonder what they'll do for me? <img src='http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/public/style_emoticons/<#EMO_DIR#>/smile.gif' class='bbc_emoticon' alt=':)' />

EDIT: Turns out they were willing to do a lot! Free shipping back to the factory, priority in the job queue, free repair and free return shipping.

[SEBSPEED]

Yes, you are. Please get that thing fixed properly. It's going to keep growing and eventually ruin your pipe. I welded mine, but it's a bit of a hump for me to do yours for you...

[kaldek]

Yes, you are. Please get that thing fixed properly. It's going to keep growing and eventually ruin your pipe. I welded mine, but it's a bit of a hump for me to do yours for you...

Aww Seb, I'm disappointed! It's only like 20,000 miles.

:fing02:

[kirbster]

Pop quiz - didn't somebody else say their Staintune exhaust bracket split a few years ago?

Yep. Took it back (I live close enough to them to just drive down there) and they shipped me a brand new replacement about a week later.

Related to this topic, my Staintunes/Motad combination went together like a lego set a couple of years back. So maybe one or both of them have changed designs a bit?

[kaldek]

Pop quiz - didn't somebody else say their Staintune exhaust bracket split a few years ago?

Yep. Took it back (I live close enough to them to just drive down there) and they shipped me a brand new replacement about a week later.

Related to this topic, my Staintunes/Motad combination went together like a lego set a couple of years back. So maybe one or both of them have changed designs a bit?

Hey bud, did you find that your heat shield didn't fit anymore? Because there's no way mine will fit now, and to make it worse the rear brake pedal brushes the header pipes as well. FYI - Mark from MCperformance sent me pictures of YOUR bike as an example of a successful installation. He did mention though that you didn't give him any feedback on how yours went though. :rolleyes:

Anyway I'm just a bit worn down by all my problems. What appeared initially to be good fitment has turned into nothing fitting quite right. Downpipe clamps which couldn't seal against the exhaust gases and then stripped, the collector pipe being too long, and now the header pipes hitting the brake lever?

Hey - check out this thread over at VFRworld where a guy has the exact same problems with Delkevic headers.

[kaldek]

I took some pictures of my Motad header fitment. These pictures are AFTER I fitted two washers behind the footpeg bracket to push it out to gain some clearance.

2mm clearance after putting spacers behind the footpeg bracket

Viewed from behind

The job overall

As you can imagine, I'm not too happy at the moment, but I'm working with the importer to sort the issue. Something we have been working on is the consideration that because this is not a close tolerance fit, the order I have tightened everything could be the cause of my problem. If you consider that "good" would be 10mm clearance behind the footpeg and "crap" is no clearance with it touching the footpeg, then I can probably find that 10mm by loosening all my header bolts, giving the motads a shove to the left and holding it there, and then tightening it all back up.

Essentially I could have had a cascade failure:

EDIT: The problems below are not related to each other.

1. Header bolts are tightened in the wrong sequence causing headers to skew to the right
   
2. Downpipes not sealing - needs new clamps and exhaust gasket cement to seal
   
3. Staintune exhaust doesn't fit onto the Motad collector pipe, needing collector pipe ground down
   
4. Rear downpipes hit footpeg bracket, needing spacer washers behind footpeg to move it out
   

Once I have my Staintune pipe fixed up I will revisit this and to try jiggling everything around. If I manage to fix it, we can use this thread as guidance on exactly how you need to fit your Motad headers to make it all work.

[kaldek]

I actually took the bike for a ride today - which was a big deal because I had a vasectomy 6 days ago. :biggrin:

But anyway, with my Motad headers hooked up and no gas leaks, she's pulling like a train. Definitely needs my throttle bodies to be synced though before I go anywhere near a custom tune. In the meantime, Staintune have really come to the party.

Hmm, I also just noticed that the plastic tube my rear brake light switch wires run through has melted from the heat off the headers. Dayum!

[kaldek]

Well, I did my first big ride today with the Motad headers fitted - 150km round trip to a customer and back.

This bike wants to wheelie on the power now in 1st and 2nd. Hello torque, where have you been!? :warranty: :beatdeadhorse:

I have my Autotune turned on as well, so that could be helping the headers do their job as well!

[LeSQUID]

Well, I did my first big ride today with the Motad headers fitted - 150km round trip to a customer and back.

This bike wants to wheelie on the power now in 1st and 2nd. Hello torque, where have you been!? :wheel: :wub:

I have my Autotune turned on as well, so that could be helping the headers do their job as well!

Good to hear it was worth all the hard work :fing02:

Cheers

Adam

[Guest]

1. Header bolts are tightened in the wrong sequence causing headers to skew to the right
   

Out of interest, what is the correct sequence? My haynes manual does not specify as far as I can see.

Great topic, Motads are something I'm thinking of over the winter. I am researching if it is worth it and the pitfalls / tips for doing it. :fing02:

[kaldek]

Well the planets aligned today and I managed to go and see the Motad importer (at his house no less!). He had already heat-treated another set of headers, pushing the outer rear header pipe (on the collector, not the one which bolts to the head) inwards. We tested this and it fit very well - no dramas getting the heat shield on at all!

So, we put a torch on mine to heat up the bend in the outer header pipe and did the same thing. Job done - heat shield in place and all! It did mean we had to use our muscles to fit the inner rear header pipe a bit, but we're talking average bloke muscles, nothing special. Ultimately, an un-modified set of headers could probably be made to fit if you jiggled & wiggled them. Certainly, I'm the FIRST person in the history of ever to need their Motad headers modified on the VFR to fit.

I'm totally stoked with mine now, and I must put a shout out to the unbeatable after-sales service from Mark at Mcperformance.com.au. He really went above and beyond the call of duty!

[kaldek]

Out of interest, what is the correct sequence? My haynes manual does not specify as far as I can see.

It turns out there is no specific sequence. There is a recommended sequence - see later posts in this thread. However, since the Motads are made from stainless steel, they're very springy and may anneal during manufacturer to a position where the fitment causes problems with the heat shield. For anyone with this problem, it is a simple fix. Using a blow torch, the bend in the outer header pipe on the collector needs to be heated, and then the pipe pushed inwards (towards where the swingarm would be) about 10mm. You need to step on it to make it go, getting it red hot first.

[kaldek]

For anyone who needs replacement downpipe header gaskets for their Motad system, they can be replaced using a Yamaha part! It's part number 3XW-14755-00-00

[zRoYz]

Pop quiz - didn't somebody else say their Staintune exhaust bracket split a few years ago?

Yep. Took it back (I live close enough to them to just drive down there) and they shipped me a brand new replacement about a week later.

Related to this topic, my Staintunes/Motad combination went together like a lego set a couple of years back. So maybe one or both of them have changed designs a bit?

Yes it did kirby because I fitted your Motad/Staintune & guess what I cut off about 10-15mm off the Motad connection because as Kaldek found out it is to long for the Staintune link pipe connector. It was also a very tight fit so used some emery paper & WD40 with elbow grease until I could slip it all the way together, there was zero leaks at connection due to tight fit. Kaldek I find stainless steel boat fitting suppliers have the stainless steel clamps in all sizes (the same type that are supplied with Motad, not the worm gear type that don't really clamp tight). You also don't need to do anything extra to fit heat sheild except position Motad clamps is a particular way but you do need to trim clamp bolt length to be able to have them turned close to swing arm as the clamps when tightened have the bolt threads sticking out to far. I have fitted 3 Motad systems to Laser, Staintunes, LEO EVO systems without problems with heat shield you just have to do some test fitting for clearance & trim clamp bolt lengths when there in the correct orientation.

[dogman]

Pop quiz - didn't somebody else say their Staintune exhaust bracket split a few years ago?

Yep. Took it back (I live close enough to them to just drive down there) and they shipped me a brand new replacement about a week later.

Related to this topic, my Staintunes/Motad combination went together like a lego set a couple of years back. So maybe one or both of them have changed designs a bit?

Yes it did kirby because I fitted your Motad/Staintune & guess what I cut off about 10-15mm off the Motad connection because as Kaldek found out it is to long for the Staintune link pipe connector. It was also a very tight fit so used some emery paper & WD40 with elbow grease until I could slip it all the way together, there was zero leaks at connection due to tight fit. Kaldek I find stainless steel boat fitting suppliers have the stainless steel clamps in all sizes (the same type that are supplied with Motad, not the worm gear type that don't really clamp tight). You also don't need to do anything extra to fit heat sheild except position Motad clamps is a particular way but you do need to trim clamp bolt length to be able to have them turned close to swing arm as the clamps when tightened have the bolt threads sticking out to far. I have fitted 3 Motad systems to Laser, Staintunes, LEO EVO systems without problems with heat shield you just have to do some test fitting for clearance & trim clamp bolt lengths when there in the correct orientation.

Do you need to trim the Motad outlet pipe with the Leo Vince evo 2 system?

I'm just about to embark on this adventure.

Any tips?

[zRoYz]

No the leo is fine with the standard Motad length as the link pipe has a deep fitting & the flare splits are very deep, you do have to trim the Motad for Lasers & Staintune. If you do find Leo link pipe you want a touch of play then you only trim off no more than 5mm but mine didn't need it.