Guest URONOUR Posted September 13, 2009 Share Posted September 13, 2009 (edited) Please call me stupid,ignorant or whatever if this question has bein asked and answerd before please point in the right direction... ok so i am in the middle of swapping a vfr 750-f-g engine out and putting a vfr750-f-h engine in.... edit f-g f-h i belive are 1986-1987 models of the vfr 750f mine was imported from germany way back when. hope the dates help me get a response. im pretty much after a yes or no answer on this but if yes how was it or has it bein done befor the front heads are getting harder to find for these models... i also have a spare f-g engine that needs a new front head and i was curiose as to wether i c an take the head from the rear and put in the front head position on the other.. edit: newr f-h i belive late 87 early 88 model vfr 750. engine should be ready for install this comeing sunday. so 1. yes i know the mount points will be reversed on the front head. 2.i know i will have to custom workaround for the water cooling as both the heads will have the same type cooler connection instead of jumping from front to rear in prebuilt fashion. 3. also the exhaust outlets are slightly turned in again i have a few theory work arounds for this. 4.im no mechanic or expert im actualy at the other end of the spectrum but am not affraid to try my hand at things if not only to fail. Please don't flame me but also dont cradle my madness if this is not possible.... do point me in the right direction of yes or no, also any help on this project would be welcomed with open arms... on another note how do add pictutres to my posts???? below is a picture of my blkown piston thanks in advance, Mike :excl: Edited September 28, 2009 by URONOUR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer Dutchy Posted September 13, 2009 Member Contributer Share Posted September 13, 2009 on another note how do add pictutres to my posts???? thanks in advance, Mike :excl: What I did/do was open a free account on www.photobucket.com in the options, set album to private upload images from your PC to photobucket Open VFRD in another session Under each uploaded picture you get 4 different "tags" click on the IMG tag it will either say 'copied' or change color only, then rightclick copy go to the post you are typing and rightclick paste voila! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest URONOUR Posted September 13, 2009 Share Posted September 13, 2009 on another note how do add pictutres to my posts???? thanks in advance, Mike :excl: What I did/do was open a free account on www.photobucket.com in the options, set album to private upload images from your PC to photobucket Open VFRD in another session Under each uploaded picture you get 4 different "tags" click on the IMG tag it will either say 'copied' or change color only, then rightclick copy go to the post you are typing and rightclick paste voila! Nice 1 mate easy peasie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest URONOUR Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 *BUMP* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer CornerCarver Posted September 15, 2009 Member Contributer Share Posted September 15, 2009 Well, Dutchy has already helped with the pic posting and I can not assist with the head swap so my post is likely to be of no help at all. I just wanted to say it looks like major detonantion took out the piston. Were you riding the bike when that piston failed? and good luck with getting your engine together, here in the US we dont use the Euro standard G-H or F-G to denote the year. You may get more feedback if you post up what year bike those suffixes correspond to. keith Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest URONOUR Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 Well, Dutchy has already helped with the pic posting and I can not assist with the head swap so my post is likely to be of no help at all. I just wanted to say it looks like major detonantion took out the piston. Were you riding the bike when that piston failed? and good luck with getting your engine together, here in the US we dont use the Euro standard G-H or F-G to denote the year. You may get more feedback if you post up what year bike those suffixes correspond to. keith Your post helps + yes i was rideing @ about 50-55 when this happend :blush: consider myself very lucky if you ask me mate:) something may have bein watching over me. there are more pics of this piston in the new vfr owners welcome topic... luckily i escaped with just bruised ego from haveing 2 push it 2 miles to a freinds house :rolleyes: so what do you think would cause that too have happend? and the year would be 1987 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmythecop Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 wouldnt the cams be spinning the wrong direction? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest URONOUR Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 wouldnt the cams be spinning the wrong direction? wouldnt have thought so becuse to put the rear head onto the front you essentialy have to spin it i could be wrong like i said im no enginer/mechanic.. also they are driven by the front section of the engine which would make them spin in the right direction... im guessing thats probly a good question though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Phantom Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 wouldnt the cams be spinning the wrong direction? If the 1st/2nd Gen is anything like the 3rd/4th Gen, you can lift the cams, spin them laterally 180 degrees, and drop them back in, and the motor will run just fine (as a Twin Twingle) because (3rd/4th Gens) fire on every stroke rather than only on ignition strokes... so if this applies to earlier models, and the head swap is feasible, and the head needs to be spun around 180 degrees... :rolleyes: then the cam timing should be no problem. I don't know if the heads can be swapped - I've never heard of anyone actually doing so - but looking at them I reckon there's a fair chance you could do it. So, lets get to the bottom of this. Who has a 1st/2nd Gen engine in bits? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tightwad Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 Per your request: STUPID sorry, I couldn't resist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest URONOUR Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 Per your request:STUPID sorry, I couldn't resist. :rolleyes: i asked for that lol. i have 2 engines in bits just so happens i have pics with a few annotations im no artist either.... the first image is with the two rear heads together on the engine the hed without rocker cover is the front the one with the cover is the original rear..... ok 2nd picture is just a shot of the new rear head i attached this to the front of engine without the rocker cover the third is a picture of the orig front head i am replacing and the rear replacement ... ok so i know the theory is there nd i could do this with minimal effort even as anon mechnic.. but before i tried it i just wanted clarrification that will indeed work cant afford another blown engine as it is lol... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Member Contributer CornerCarver Posted September 15, 2009 Member Contributer Share Posted September 15, 2009 I want to retract my earlier statement regarding detonation. After looking at the pic on better monitor it definately looks like you dropped a valve on top of the piston. It looks like you should be able to swap a rear head to the front with associated owkr to correct the issues you have already discussed BUT I would think you could get a proper front head for less money than the materials to replumb and correct the exhaust angle. Possiboly even a straight up swap at a salvage yard your rear head for their front head, maybe a couple pounds added for their trouble. I would not even offer my parts to them for swap if the price was reasonable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest URONOUR Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 I want to retract my earlier statement regarding detonation. After looking at the pic on better monitor it definately looks like you dropped a valve on top of the piston. It looks like you should be able to swap a rear head to the front with associated owkr to correct the issues you have already discussed BUT I would think you could get a proper front head for less money than the materials to replumb and correct the exhaust angle. Possiboly even a straight up swap at a salvage yard your rear head for their front head, maybe a couple pounds added for their trouble. I would not even offer my parts to them for swap if the price was reasonable. [/ i have considerd this also. this is more of a can it be done kinda thing erm...(experiment if you like) after all this is a spare engine that i paid next to nothing for becuse it had a damged front head looked like someone belted it with 50lbs hammer.to split it fom the cranck case cover stupid people out there....... i may go ahead with this and set up timeing and a water rig wich i already have a good cheap plan for.the exhaust issue is an easy 1 i spare pipes and exhausts aswell also the engine/frame mount point mod without it being too perminant just for brag rights lol anal i know but whats life without experimentation right :blush: thanks to everyone who has contributed and also Tightwad for his comedianism.lol :mellow: things like this have allways intregued me. expert more post like this about diffrent things lol the next question for now is....is there another front end i can put on this vfr 750 f-g 1987???? if so any ideas? that and other whells the tires are becomeing a bit harder to find for these... A pic of my vfr 750 for the crowd. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest URONOUR Posted September 24, 2009 Share Posted September 24, 2009 (edited) Ok so i dropped this idea for a lil while and im trying somethimng new as there are few unclosed threads on the engine swapping for the 1986-1987 fg or f-h respectivly ok heres a picture taken from the 1986 microfiche for the vfr 750 f-g and partialy f-h allthough i cant find the revised 1987 f-h serv ice manual if someone has 1 please point in the right direction... back to what i was saying. in this picture it shows a cam pulse generator and also 2 crank pulse generators installed on the f-g (1986) on the f-h(87) theres no cam pulse genrator without this you wont get any sparks to any plugs useing the f-h wireing but with it you only receive power to 2 of the front to coils 2&4 << this is my physicle findings based on my own hands on trial trying to avoid changeing wire lumes cdis coils etc.... (poor) and the fact i may still be able to salvge 1 of my f-g engines useing the 2 i have.... now like i say i need the 1987 revision of the service manual to theorise how to rewire the crank pulse generator for the rear 1&2 heads. or find out why i only have power to 2 of the 4 coils hopeing someone may shed some light on this for me as iv only bein at for 2 days and i got this far this may be answer to the question about can i straight swap these engines with minimal effort or without replcaeing cdi's lumes coils.etc..... all four coils are ok and working... like i said before im no mechanic or enginer but i am eager to exhust all options with the tools i have before i start replaceing things with money i siply don't have.. Any input or help on this will be appreciated brillint forum with some brilliant users... cheers, Mike Edited September 24, 2009 by URONOUR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest URONOUR Posted September 27, 2009 Share Posted September 27, 2009 (edited) Ok so i dropped this idea for a lil while and im trying somethimng new as there are few unclosed threads on the engine swapping for the 1986-1987 fg or f-h respectivlyok heres a picture taken from the 1986 microfiche for the vfr 750 f-g and partialy f-h allthough i cant find the revised 1987 f-h serv ice manual if someone has 1 please point in the right direction... back to what i was saying. in this picture it shows a cam pulse generator and also 2 crank pulse generators installed on the f-g (1986) on the f-h(87) theres no cam pulse genrator without this you wont get any sparks to any plugs useing the f-h wireing but with it you only receive power to 2 of the front two coils 2&4 << this is my physicle findings based on my own hands on trial trying to avoid changeing wire lumes cdis coils etc.... (poor) and the fact i may still be able to salvge 1 of my f-g engines useing the 2 i have.... now like i say i need the 1987 revision of the service manual to theorise how to rewire the crank pulse generator for the rear 1&2 heads. or find out why i only have power to 2 of the 4 coils hopeing someone may shed some light on this for me as iv only bein at for 2 days and i got this far this may be answer to the question about can i straight swap these engines with minimal effort or without replcaeing cdi's lumes coils.etc..... all four coils are ok and working... like i said before im no mechanic or enginer but i am eager to exhust all options with the tools i have before i start replaceing things with money i siply don't have.. Any input or help on this will be appreciated brillint forum with some brilliant users... cheers, Mike ok just a quick update you have to replace the crank case pulse generators and slightly turn in the generator for #2-#4 ever so slightly to get all four plugs fireing as soon as i setup timing i will update on wether you also have to replace starter clutch aswell as there is a diffrence in how many notch's there are > these notchs are what trigger the pulse generators mybe they fire slightly faster (or rather at slightly diffrent times) than the 86 engine as there are more on the 87 startor clutch... so i am very nearly at a stage where where i have swapped an 86 early 87 f-g with late 87 F-h respectivly with no cost so far as all the parts i have used came of my blown f-g. maybe another day tinkering i will have succesfully done the converion just becarefull when installing the cam pulse generator in the front head not to make the hole to wide you want a nice snuggley fit :biggrin: Any 1 who can offer me a bit of insight further into what i am doing plese step forward as i am just 1 noob trying to work with what i have with little or no knowledge of this senario... thnks again, Mike Edited September 27, 2009 by URONOUR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Phantom Posted September 27, 2009 Share Posted September 27, 2009 Mate, from what I can tell you are going along brilliantly on this! I haven't seen this work done before, hope it all comes together for you :biggrin: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest URONOUR Posted September 27, 2009 Share Posted September 27, 2009 Mate, from what I can tell you are going along brilliantly on this! I haven't seen this work done before, hope it all comes together for you :fing02: Glad to see that im not doin this for just my own benifit i do believe however i may have to change the starter clutch over but i made a booboo whilst clearing my workspace earlier this morning i put 2 of my engines outside whilst cleaning up (was very untidy as you do lol) and the locol scrap man without so much as a knock on the door pulled up and swipped them (Wait till i catch him)!!!!! so i now need a starter clutch for the f-g to replace the 1 in the f-h if the timming solution doesn't work although i realy believe i naffed the timming and it will run finger toes legs and B@lls crossed hahaha. i hope i make a break through for the good of the community once this is done and working i will do up a how to and try and get it sticky'd if its of any use of course lol thanks for your support , Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest URONOUR Posted October 21, 2009 Share Posted October 21, 2009 can any 1 tell me if the 1986 vf 750 s (imported model) known as sabre in the uk engine sprag clutch/starter clutch will fit the vfr 750f g (1986) model or will the timming notches be diffrent to the original?? if not anybody have the starter clutch/sprag clutch. for sale or trade for the 1 from a f-h 1987.? any help on this maybe even if you know part number for the original starter clutch would be a great help thanks again. Mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest HobbyBob517 Posted October 25, 2009 Share Posted October 25, 2009 can any 1 tell me if the 1986 vf 750 s (imported model) known as sabre in the uk engine sprag clutch/starter clutch will fit the vfr 750f g (1986) model or will the timming notches be diffrent to the original??if not anybody have the starter clutch/sprag clutch. for sale or trade for the 1 from a f-h 1987.? any help on this maybe even if you know part number for the original starter clutch would be a great help thanks again. Mike Hey mike, I might know a place u can get all the parts u need. www.megamoto.nl, got a good deal here for a throttle and some cables while ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest URONOUR Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 can any 1 tell me if the 1986 vf 750 s (imported model) known as sabre in the uk engine sprag clutch/starter clutch will fit the vfr 750f g (1986) model or will the timming notches be diffrent to the original??if not anybody have the starter clutch/sprag clutch. for sale or trade for the 1 from a f-h 1987.? any help on this maybe even if you know part number for the original starter clutch would be a great help thanks again. Mike Hey mike, I might know a place u can get all the parts u need. cheers for that mate will look it up shortly i have put this project on the back burner for now.... Anybody know which cdi unit will fit the 1987 vfr750f-h so i can one of mybikes on the road. does the f-j/k cdi work with the fh these models differ slight and i appreciate that but what a pita these bikes are being for me lol... cheers for comments and help Mike www.megamoto.nl, got a good deal here for a throttle and some cables while ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest URONOUR Posted October 30, 2009 Share Posted October 30, 2009 whilst searching i came across what seems to be a good site for repairs/some parts for our vfrs + others dont know if anyone has seen it before but it seems intresting if not usefull http://www.carmo.nl/index_uk.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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