Road2 Problems?

[billyjackjimbob]

I have just over 5k on my Power front Road2 rear set up. This past weekend was a record cool for August in KY and I was out on the bike when I noticed the rear breaking free as I entered some curves. I wasn't really pushing the bike and discounted the loss of traction to either dirt or simply the cooler temps. Tuesday afternoon I was riding again and again the rear broke loose in an abnormal way. I was turning right from a stop light which I had stopped at. As I nudged the bike over the rear stepped out under very limited throttle... very limited. This got me thinking....

At my next stop I closely inspected my rear tire. Plenty of tread, tire was warm to the touch, and there was nothing like oil or chain lube on the tire. Then I noticed it... The tire was cupped. But not where I have seen cupping before. I have had many tires that would cup at the edge of the tread pattern and this was in the 10 and 2 o'clock area. When I say cupped, I mean a good 1/4 inch of elevation change from the end of one tread pattern to the beginning of the next.

I started thinking about my last 1000 miles or so and the little wiggles I had been having since returning from my weekend in NC. I had again discounted the little shakes and slips to being used to the race track quality pavement in the Robbinsville area and returning home to the more earthly pavement of eastern KY. But, when I thought about how I had adjusted my riding it made perfect sense. I was feeling the tire slip on moderate curves but in the extream stuff where I have to throw the bike in the tires would stick.

Has anyone else had their Road2s to cup and not on the edge? This is basically at the compound zone change point. What would make the bike wear the tires at this point so much more differently than on any other tire I've owned? I have contacted Mich. and will be sending them the tire so they can look at it.

Kevin

[Guest]

Where was the tire made?I have heard bad things about tires coming from Thailand which may or not be true after all this is the internet.I'm really curious about the country of origin so please post up.

Thanks

[gmicklus]

I am just now replacing my road 2 set and they have 13k (here comes the peanut gallery) on them most of that is highway and commute miles with twisties thrown in on occasion this is my first set. i have ridiculus cupping both front and rear but i always had cupping on the fronts of the powers and with that type of mileage i am not real suprised and the feel is not wiggly but kind of loose just on turn in I road to indy and took a day in ohio on some amazing roads felt good over all.

[DenT]

any pictures? I'll compare to mine.

Just theory but by any chance were you running low pressures. It would make sence that if your contact patch included the center as well as the side compound that the side would wear ledged like that.

[Ryanme17]

any pictures? I'll compare to mine.

Just theory but by any chance were you running low pressures. It would make sence that if your contact patch included the center as well as the side compound that the side would wear ledged like that.

+1. I ran a Road 2 front at too low of a pressure on some straights for a while (the slab between the twisties) and it wore very quickly. When I bumped the pressure back up, it hardly wears at all. Of course, this is normal wear, not cupping, so I"m not really sure about the transition point...

[Beck]

any pictures? I'll compare to mine.

Just theory but by any chance were you running low pressures. It would make sence that if your contact patch included the center as well as the side compound that the side would wear ledged like that.

+1. I ran a Road 2 front at too low of a pressure on some straights for a while (the slab between the twisties) and it wore very quickly. When I bumped the pressure back up, it hardly wears at all. Of course, this is normal wear, not cupping, so I"m not really sure about the transition point...

Hmmm...... I'm on my second season with the PR2CTs and I run them very hard on the twisties and put them through a good amount of highway miles too. I have not noticed any cupping at all and wear has also been minimal for both the front and rear.

The breaking away might be a symptom of your rear cupping because I've felt similar symptoms from a badly cupped Dunlop front tire I had on my bike, but there could be suspension issues on your bike too that's causing both cupping and wiggly handling.

What tire pressures do you run??

Beck

95 VFR

[Ryanme17]

Hmmm...... I'm on my second season with the PR2CTs and I run them very hard on the twisties and put them through a good amount of highway miles too. I have not noticed any cupping at all and wear has also been minimal for both the front and rear.

The breaking away might be a symptom of your rear cupping because I've felt similar symptoms from a badly cupped Dunlop front tire I had on my bike, but there could be suspension issues on your bike too that's causing both cupping and wiggly handling.

What tire pressures do you run??

Exactly! The wear on my front was my own fault for running 30 psi on the slab...

BJJB knows what he's doing, so I highly doubt that the suspension is set wrong and am almost positive that the tire breaking away is a result of cupping. It can't get any traction when it's not an even surface. I'm wondering if this was just an anomaly...

[Guest]

Hmmm...... I'm on my second season with the PR2CTs and I run them very hard on the twisties and put them through a good amount of highway miles too. I have not noticed any cupping at all and wear has also been minimal for both the front and rear.

The breaking away might be a symptom of your rear cupping because I've felt similar symptoms from a badly cupped Dunlop front tire I had on my bike, but there could be suspension issues on your bike too that's causing both cupping and wiggly handling.

What tire pressures do you run??

Exactly! The wear on my front was my own fault for running 30 psi on the slab...

BJJB knows what he's doing, so I highly doubt that the suspension is set wrong and am almost positive that the tire breaking away is a result of cupping. It can't get any traction when it's not an even surface. I'm wondering if this was just an anomaly...

A anomaly or the results of a different or bad rubber compound,that is what is the case with this type of problem.

[billyjackjimbob]

I'm running 36psi on the rear. After the TMAC this year I set the sag on my bike for the first time in forever and these tires have been on after that. My problem of running the rear to the edge and having chicken strip on the front is fixed and now I'm running both to near the same mark.

Is everyone running the Power front and Road2 rear combo or are you guys running a Road2 front as well? Either way these things have got to come off the bike real soon like. Got in a little shower last night and at any lean at all the rear would break loose. Crazy! LOL

[spud786]

I'm running 36psi on the rear. After the TMAC this year I set the sag on my bike for the first time in forever and these tires have been on after that. My problem of running the rear to the edge and having chicken strip on the front is fixed and now I'm running both to near the same mark.

Is everyone running the Power front and Road2 rear combo or are you guys running a Road2 front as well? Either way these things have got to come off the bike real soon like. Got in a little shower last night and at any lean at all the rear would break loose. Crazy! LOL

I've been through a few sets of PPower front and road 2 rear , ROAD 2 rear not my favorite rain tire but I like the life of it, nothing that offers any traction at all will beat it on life.

but I'm sick of the road 2 rear, looking for something else

[Beck]

I'm running 36psi on the rear. After the TMAC this year I set the sag on my bike for the first time in forever and these tires have been on after that. My problem of running the rear to the edge and having chicken strip on the front is fixed and now I'm running both to near the same mark.

Is everyone running the Power front and Road2 rear combo or are you guys running a Road2 front as well? Either way these things have got to come off the bike real soon like. Got in a little shower last night and at any lean at all the rear would break loose. Crazy! LOL

36psi for your rear?? Isn't that a little soft for street riding? Could the low pressure you are running be causing your cupping?

I run 42 rear and 36 front per Honda's recommendation. and I have zero cupping after 2 seasons on the PR2CTs.

Beck

95 VFR

[Guest]

I am running Road 2s on my VFR and Ducati and so far they are great and I have never had any hint of them letting go at all even at 9/10s pace. I think I would crap my pants if they did that on the street. Something sounds very wrong. My RWB is rock stable with these tires Even grinding the centerstand. I run the Suggested PSIs as well.

[VFR Capt.Bob]

I'm interested since I've just converted to these Michelin tires. Pilot Powers and Pilot road 2 combos. Gonna keep the recommended pressures in mine and watch for cupping.

[checksix]

36 on the rear is pretty low isn't it? Standard pressure is 42. Seems like that would explain why the sides have abnormal wear.

[Guest]

If all you guys are too fast for Road 2 fronts you are too fast for me on the street! I went from Powers to Road 2s on the Duc and like the Road 2s better.

[Guest]

My bike has been handling like crap for the last month. No surprise, I have 10,000 miles on my first set of PRII's. The front is worn to the wear bars but the rear, on first inspection looks to have 2,000 more miles in it. Then, I notice the scalloped sides..daymn!

I can't complain; they lasted about 2,000 miles longer than my PR's and my PR rear sucked for every one of those 8,000 miles :beer:

I have another set of PRII's sit'n in the garage, so I will throw those on and keep that scalloped rear as an emergency spare.

[spud786]

No cupping at all on my road 2 rears, but I run higher pressure atleast 42

But like a said not the best cold rain tire, if your pushing it

[HispanicSlammer]

I dont think the profile of a pilot power matches the Pilot road well enough to wear together. In fact I think its a bad combo, others dont agree but for me I could not get used to it and did not feel any advantage to the combo. I went back to powers front and back, and I am going to use my rear road2 for a long trip next summer - with a road2 front again. I dont think the sidewalls flex the same, the profile is too shallow on the rear for the combo and so you get cupping in strange places. Cupping happens when you get a tire that is not compliant with the road, the front may be but the rear is not. You may want to put a bit more wieght on the back by lowering the preload a setting, then look into the rebound next if that doesnt work.

I tried it and did not care for it, It felt like the front was pushing in the corners and so I lowered the preload on the front a bit, which helped but I did not like the feel at all.

[Guest]

Cupping is generally a sign of bad suspension setup.

I've had mine on for 8000 miles and they're wearing down fine.

[Mac]

Just a thought.

Abnormal tire wear is often caused by the tire being out of balance. It is easy to see when it is too late.

Mac

[Luvmyvfr]

Just a thought.

Abnormal tire wear is often caused by the tire being out of balance. It is easy to see when it is too late.

Mac

Yeah, I'd say if your are getting 8,000 miles out of your tire, it would probably be a good idea to have them re balanced somewhere in the middle!

I mostly ride take offs and only get 1500 ~ 2000 miles out of them and then I toss them and throw on a new(used) set. The current ones are Pirelli DCIII dual compound. They were take offs, two trackdays and then 400 miles to arkansas, 450 miles of railing in AR, and then a 400 mile ride home. I had about 39psi in the rear and 37 in the front for the ride down, and as soon as I hit the twistie roads in Missouri they felt way too hard....so the got dropped to 33 rear and 32 front(cold pressure) and they felt great....have left them at that pressure since.

I have a set of Michelin pilot roads with around 3500 miles that will be going back soon and the weather is turning colder here (grrrr :dry: ) and they should go another 1500 miles and I'll order another set, just because I won't like them anymore. To me, the $230 or whatever they cost is way cheaper than having ragged tires I could keep riding on, but might cause a crash and hurt me and my bike!

With however long you you choose to ride your tires to the end of their life, the most important thing is the connection between your brain and your right hand....if your tires have 7,000 miles on them and they feel loose, ride accordingly!! Slow down!!! If they are brand new and super sticky...lol well ride accordingly!!!

:dry:

[Trace]

I'm running 36psi on the rear. After the TMAC this year I set the sag on my bike for the first time in forever and these tires have been on after that.

That's the problem. Please see this thread and go to post #13 (me!). http://www.vfrdiscussion.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=54981 .

You gotta run 36F/42R.

I use a Power front, Road2 rear on the VFR, no issues. I prefer the Power's profile for nice turn-in.

[Monk]

So far I have 2000 miles on my front PR2, and 5000 miles on my rear PR2. I haven't been able to feel(finger)any cupping on either tyre, nor have I felt any slipping on the road........... I am relatively moderate on the side forces..... I really liked the pattern on the PR's.... Now if they could make the rubber like the PR2's, with the regular PR's pattern, I'd buy it in a sec.

[Guest]

My tires almost always wear perfect, I run the recommended pressure. Unless I'm planning on tearing up the twisties, then 39/40 gives better cornering grip.

Cupping is usually from poor suspension settings, or tires which are out of balance.

That's why I only run these for balance http://www.innovativebalancing.com/motorcycle.htm

It's worth taking some time to set up your suspension perfect. Take the bike off the kick stand. Now stand at the side of your bike. Push down hard on the suspension a few times (one hand on the handlebars and the other hand on the seat) and watch what it does. You want the front and the rear to be perfectly balanced. While testing push down, as it comes back up see if the back comes up faster than the front, if so, just add a little more rebound dampening to the rear until the front and rear are working in unison. Also sitting on the seat check how quickly both front and rear compress as you drop your weight down on the seat a few times. Does one end compress quicker than the other? Add more compression dampening until both drop at the same rate. Suspension is an art, but your goal is balancing the front and rear until both are the same and somewhat firm, you don't want any slop. Also if your suspension is not set up correctly (say you have to much rebound) that can amplify the bumps rather than absorb them and cause your tires to cup. The next guy that jumps on your bike asking you "how the heck did you get your suspension so perfect", please take the time to show him how to set it up.

[Trace]

While testing push down, as it comes back up see if the back comes up faster than the front, if so, just add a little more rebound dampening to the rear until the front and rear are working in unison.

Uhhhhh..... how does a person know to do that, instead of reducing some of the rebound damping in the front to get this balance? :laugh: Most bikes have much more adjustabilty than a VFR, so there is much more to it than that. However, I put F3 fork guts in my 5th Gen (so that I do have rebound adjustability) and a Penske on the back. So as you can see, there's a lot of different directions a person could go to get "balance", but even if both ends are matched for rebound, that says nothing about compression or about where the settings really need to be. Balance is important (for a basic street set-up), but it's only one consideration.

Suspension is an art, but your goal is balancing the front and rear until both are the same and somewhat firm, you don't want any slop.

Uhhhh.....what do you mean by slop, exactly, in relation to bouncing a bike for balance? Too soft a spring(s)? Worn parts? Not enough comp or rebound damping?

My point is.....suspension is a science and it's not as easy as bouncing the bike to get this perfect set-up you speak of. Unbalanced damping won't induce the severe cupping that BJJB has described because if the bike was that out of kilter, the experienced rider (like BJJB) would likely know it. And if that was the case, such cupping would be FAR more prevalent due to the millions of improperly set up VFRs and Gixxers and Kaws and CBRs and Yammies and everything else in the world. But that's just not the case. Except on those junk-ass Dunlop 208s (usually just the front tire, due to heavy braking), cupping is rarely a problem until the tire is almost worn out.

As for the cupping of this rear Road2....that is due to 1) underinflation and 2) a rider who comes out of turns hard on the throttle, not mysterious suspension problems.